Thoughts on my preamps?

dickiefunk

dickiefunk

New member
Hi,

I am currently using a ART MPA Gold, M-Audio Tampa and DMP3 as my pres.
I mainly record just vocals.

When I originally bought the ART I intended to upgrade the tubes based on hearing various clips with NOS Telefunken ecc83's in.
However since then I've also considered selling all my pres and get something like an Audient Mico or secondhand DAV BG-1.

Thing is, I really like having different sounding pres to suit different vocalists so I'm REALLY torn as to whether I should upgrade the tubes or buy something else.

Would I expect to hear a big difference with the Mico or Dav if I'm only recording a few audio tracks?
I thought that the difference would be more noticeable when stacking lots of audio tracks?
 
Is there anyone on here who has used any Audient pres?

The Mico uses the same pres as their flagship ASP8024 desk.

I'm torn between upgrading my ART MPA tubes or selling all my pres and get the Audient?
 
The problem with project studio gear, is that you don't pay much for it and it's not worth much in the long run.

Pick up an API 3124 rack unit and get 4 very useful channels. You'll likely NEVER be inclined to sell, but if you do, it will only go up (not down) in price.

ART gear leaves alot to be desired, but it can be useful. But when you hear it up against the API 3124, you'll fall about laughing.
 
I'd upgrade preamps not tubes. I did the MPA Gold thing with upgraded tubes and it sounded a little better, but not close to a high end preamp.
 
The API 512 is sweet...the line6 toneport has a setting for it and it has a nice Steely Dan sound to it...I use the Neve 1076 setting for most of the stuff I do...and an Avalon setting for vocals...the modeling is spot on since it is prossessed by my computer.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately higher end gear like API is totally out of my budget. I'm talking £350 here.

It's hard to know whether anything in this price bracket would be a step up or not as I can't get to a store to try them :(

I looks as though the Audient Mico is the most likely option as it uses the same pres as their flagship £20,000 desk + it has top notch A/D converters built in!
 
dickiefunk said:
Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately higher end gear like API is totally out of my budget. I'm talking £350 here.
Click to expand...

The Line6 UX2 is under $200 us...and it does that API with lower self noise...that is the advantage of the modeler...the combined pres are identically matched too...the racked API pres are arround $2500.

The sound is what it is all about...you dont have to give up living indoors to get it anymore.
 
It's looking more and more likely that I'll be getting the tube upgrades.

I've just sold some gear and I have enough money to get the tubes + some software or hardware (£110 approx).

I'm thinking about getting the tubes and something like Izotope Ozone 4. I guess this would give me the most noticeable overall improvement to my final tracks!?
 
Hmm just been looking at the new version of the MPA Gold on ARTS site :-

http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?id=146&cat=1&type=79

This is what one of their sales guys emailed to me :-

"The newer version is improved... it looks nicer (I think), with a sculpted /
routed face pane. More features- a stereo mode as well as mid/side matrix
capabilities, and the input gain control has a more linear effect on the
levels. It also has led's backlighting the meter, the old version uses
incandescent bulbs that would burn out and need replacing after a while.
I don't have comparative specs line by line, but the design Engineer says it
will be quieter. At the least new/ better pots were used and they changed
the gain structure to address a complaint people had with the earlier model
in that the input gain was not all that linear and made a jump at the end of
the pot travel."

If ART has made a noticeable improvement in reducing the noise and sorted the the gain structure on the pots I'd be half tempted to trade in my MPA Gold for the new version?
 
Just read the SOS review of the Mico and it was praised extremely highly!
The HMX feature is said to simulate tubes really well and has top notch converters onboard via Toslink, Spdif and AES/EBU. The THD has been improved from their flagship ASP 8024 desk from 0.007% to 0.0015%.

Man does it look tempting!!

I have been looking a little closer at the specs between the ART MPA Gold and PRO MPA II and the only real difference is in the dynamic range.
MPA Gold - 100dB, PRO MPA II - 110dB.

What difference would this make to the performance if any?
 
Supercreep said:
Save your money and buy something you'll keep forever.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I won't be saving for gear as these funds need to go towards other stuff for the next couple of years.
I have to work with what I've already got hance why my budget is up to £350 max!
I can either use the £155 cash I have and get new tubes for my MPA Gold and put what's left towards software or a Korg Nano Kontrol - or, I could sell the MPA GOLD and TAMPA and get the Audient Mico or maybe see if a secondhand DAV comes up this cheap!? But once that money is spent that's it!

If I had money coming in regularly that I could put towards gear I'd be looking to save up for a Great River MP-1a but this won't be happening for a seriously long time!
 
Well if you have 350 pounds and the Gold and the Tampa AND the DMP3, it would seem to me that if you sold the Gold, Tampa and DMP3 and got a Chameleon Labs 7622 (don't make them anymore but you can still buy new stock online) that would cover you for a good 2 ch. pre that you would likely never need to upgrade. They go for about 700-ish US so with conversion, that would be around 500 pounds I think. You could easily get 200 pounds for all 3 pres you have now and cover the cost of the chameleon labs and have an EXCELLENT mid level neve-style pre.
JMHO.
BTW, 155 pounds is WAY too much to spend on tubes for the GOLD. It won't make THAT much difference. Seriously. I know. Good tubes help, but they don't turn it into a Neve.
 
mamm7215 said:
Well if you have 350 pounds and the Gold and the Tampa AND the DMP3, it would seem to me that if you sold the Gold, Tampa and DMP3 and got a Chameleon Labs 7622 (don't make them anymore but you can still buy new stock online) that would cover you for a good 2 ch. pre that you would likely never need to upgrade. They go for about 700-ish US so with conversion, that would be around 500 pounds I think. You could easily get 200 pounds for all 3 pres you have now and cover the cost of the chameleon labs and have an EXCELLENT mid level neve-style pre.
JMHO.
BTW, 155 pounds is WAY too much to spend on tubes for the GOLD. It won't make THAT much difference. Seriously. I know. Good tubes help, but they don't turn it into a Neve.
Click to expand...

Sorry I meant I have £155 now and if I sold my ART MPA Gold, Tampa and DMP3 I should make another £200 giving me around £350 in total!
I didn't mean the valves would cost £155. I can pick up a NOS Telefunken Ecc83 + NOS GE Long Plate for £50ish including delivery!
 
Oh, sorry, my bad.
Honestly, looking at your gear list, personally I just don't think another low-mid end pre is going to do anything for you. You have decent mics, 3 of the best low-mid pres covering most all your bases, if you REALLY want to spend money on better sounding gear, it'll have to be a LOT more to make a difference. You need to quit reading gear forums and concentrate on learning the gear you have (and I'm sure you are, anyways). I know I did.
Allow yourself to spend a few $$ on better tubes for the Gold. That WILL help. Otherwise, go make some music. The gear you have is more than adequate for that.
JMHO.
Michael.
 
Yeah I'm starting to think that more and more!

I did see a secondhand DAV BG-1 for £350 the other day but I actually like the tone of the ART MPA Gold.
I've found that the clean tone of my Tampa doesn't suit the singer I do most of my work with. It starts to sound harsh in the high end and needs something to add warmth and smooth it out. I've found that with the ART this harshness has gone and like the Oktava MK-319 and MXL v67g through it.
My main niggle with the MPA Gold is it's noise. Whilst it's still perfectly useable it is much noiser than my M-Audio pres. I've read that decent NOS tubes lower the noise a little and smooth the high end even more whilst adding more depth.
My other niggle is the gain staging could be more linear.

I'm not convinced that the DAV or Audient pres would be a good match with the vocalist I work with because of their true clean and revealing characters. I'm concerned that they would reveal the truth of the harshness of her voice where a tube preamp would seem more appropiate for smoothing it out.

I think for the moment I'll get the tubes and see how I get on.
I'm still interested in finding out about the new version of the MPA Gold (Pro MPA II). I've been told by one of their guys that the noise has been lowered and the gain staging has been improved and is more linear. If these improvements are particularly noticeable then I'd be tempted to sell my MPA Gold and use the money I have left to get the new Pro MPA II.
 
Maybe you've got bad tubes already? I really don't recall my Gold being that noisy. Are you sure it's not room noise you're picking up through the LDC? You'd be surprised what you think is noise is really wind outside your house, air through furnace vents, computer fans...seriously, you shouldn't be able to "hear" the Gold unless you CRANK the input gain to full, the last 5% of the knob seems to bring a sudden jump in hiss but otherwise mine's dead quiet.
 
mamm7215 said:
Maybe you've got bad tubes already? I really don't recall my Gold being that noisy.
Click to expand...
mamm7215 said:
you shouldn't be able to "hear" the Gold unless you CRANK the input gain to full, the last 5% of the knob seems to bring a sudden jump in hiss but otherwise mine's dead quiet.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I can hear quite a bit of hiss with my MPA Gold.
I'm gonna check whether this is a dodgy lead going to my headphone amp.
I'll also see what difference the new tubes make when I get them.

This sudden jump in hiss in the last 5% should be sorted with the new version along with the hiss lowered.
Time will tell!
 
The DAV is a pretty sweet sounding preamp. I use it all the time for overheads. It would sound great for vocals, and imo you're going to get much more sonic difference from a different mic or from post processing than you're going to get with a preamplifier, unless you're looking to stack many tracks of the same instrument or voice.
 
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