Thinking out loud about tape speed and a Tascam 234 or 244

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bachelorb

bachelorb

Cowboy Chord Virtuoso
Even though I have issues to deal with, Tascam's 244 is pretty cool to me. The rack mounted 234 is even better (since people here have gotten me to think about a small rack system). My only problem is the tapes speed.

I enjoy doing online 4 track collaborations, where people record a track onto a cassette and physically mail the tape to the next person. Because of the different machines everyone uses. The tape speed everyone uses is 1.75 ips. Unfortunately, neither the 234 or 244 offer that speed. I see Tascam has a 134 cassette that does, but that seems rarer than teeth on a hen.

Do Y'all have any ideas (either digital or analog) on how I could take a tape going 1.75 ips, somehow convert it to 3.5 ips speed so I can record on it, then switch it back to 1.75 ips so I can mail it off to someone else keeping the tracks seperate the whole time?

As always...... thanks......

Brad
 
If the deck is using a dual-speed motor for the capstan, it might be possible to mod it to support both speeds. However, the EQ would be off.
 
Wow, I've never heard of that 4-track cassette collaboration system. Sounds pretty cool.

TBH, I can't think of a way that you could make that work. I think a dual-speed machine is likely your only solution. Do you still have the 424? It runs on both speeds, doesn't it?
 
I know the 424 mkII and mkIII are high speed only...think the mkI is the same.
 
I have a mk1 and it has both a 1.75 and 3.5 speed. That's how I did the last one.

These 4 track collaborations are kind of fun. The last one I did started in Derbyshire with someone laying down a piano track. The tape was then sent to Nottinghamshire and someone laid down a bass line. Then off to Michigan where someone played a drum track, then to me (now in New Mexico), where I came up with lyrics and a rhythm guitar.

It gets real interesting trying to get everything to match key wise between machines.... Thank goodness for pitch control......

I've thought about sending the tracks to audacity at 3.5, cut it back to 1.75 and record the tracks back on the 244. Then when I'm finished, record it all back again to audacity, double the speed and record it back to the original tape. 4 channel audio interfaces are pretty pricey though......
 
So ... you have a 424 .... but .... you're not keeping it I guess? Is that the issue?
 
.....what????..... no eye roll????.... :) . I'm going to have to sell it... Y'all have got me thinking of this mini rack system thing.... So much so, I've just bought this

image.webp

I have to use something to fund it... (I'll probably keep it until I can find a tape player).

This hobby can get expensive....
 
I think you're getting a case of runaway G.A.S. Better reign it in soon! :)
 
Good for her! I've been there (as have many around here I'm sure), and it really can distract you from the point of all this equipment, which is to record music! ;)
 
This ^^^^ is an absolute truth.

Keep the rig simple. It's like old plumbing...once you start in on fixing something simple, it just keeps going and going.

Have a clear objective in mind with the setup, and if what you are chasing is based on suppositions and assumptions, sit tight and use what you *have* until you know what you actually *need*.
 
sweetbeats said:
This ^^^^ is an absolute truth.

Keep the rig simple. It's like old plumbing...once you start in on fixing something simple, it just keeps going and going.

Have a clear objective in mind with the setup, and if what you are chasing is based on suppositions and assumptions, sit tight and use what you *have* until you know what you actually *need*.
Click to expand...

Well said Cory!
 
Thanks, Beagle.

I think it's likely very evident I go chasing very big gear projects, have high standards and expectations for outcomes with those projects, and have a hard time letting go of them once I'm entrenched. I spend 99+% of my music time working in gear projects, and my motivation to work on stuff and/or create and capture music becomes diminished because I'm overwhelmed with stuff I don't have time for...and I'm an impatient S.O.B.

It's a terrible existence.

I'm really feeling the pull to shrink down my scope and expectations to something more controllable, and as a result have more enjoyment and actually be creating something.

I just sold my MCI JH-416 mixing desk project...fella comes to pick it up some time in October. I love that desk...the heritage, its historical significance, the look...and I'm sure it sounds like nothing else and is a great match for my Ampex MM-1000. But it's just to big a project for me...too much time needed to finish it...I'm sure it would take hundreds and hundreds of hours, and money. I feel good letting it go and we can pay down some debt.

I'm really loving I have a Tascam 58 again...yes it's a project too but mostly just cleaning and refurbishing...and I really love my "M-__" prototype mixing console, which is a period and cosmetic match to the 58...still a bit of a project too and will always need some TLC attention...the 58 is no Ampex wide format machine like the Ampex MM-1000, but maybe the 58 is the right "size" for me...my personality, traits...my needs. I got into this searching for "it" and kept leveling up and super-sizing, always taking on stuff that needed work because that way the up front cost was less...there's a huge back end cost to my soul.

With the MCI on its way out I'm sincerely considering carving out all the more vintage stuff I have...that whole layer that would include the MM-1000, and my 3M M-64 halftrack project...and actually get to play with the toys and make music.

I'd be a lot happier if I could just let myself do that.

So, sorry to hijack the thread...Bob, what is your music production bliss? At least right now? Is it the global multitrack collaborations? Because that is damn cool. And to do it you need a good dual speed cassette 4-track like the 424 mkI right? Done. Don't you still have it? Hey the M-108 is cool. Try it as a front-end to the 424...if it doesn't sound all that different why complicate the setup? Why complicate the setup with trying to collaborate with others having to go into and out of a DAW to modify speed? Pop the cassette in and go!

It appears tension is increasing with your RV mate...I dunno...my 2p.
 
Well..... I like tinkering Cory.... I got into this because I wasl looking for something to fix that I know little about and I play guitar..... sooooo. I bought my first 424 on ebay and another for parts.... (for around $50 plus shipping.... no one counts shipping right???). Well I'll be dogged if they both didn't work!! So then I bought a 244 that looked pretty nice and a parts one for around $100. I thought I'd practice putting the belts on the parts one and low and behold that one worked!! Sold it, and started to work on the 244 I have now.....It looks great, but you know how that story is going......

Music wise.... I play the guitar year round, do a couple of songs in the summer but write 14 of them in February. I recorded them on Audacity last year, but heard about the 4 track challange and thats where the two worlds of tinkering and music have collided. Especially with my interest in four tracks.

I've already ruled out reel to reels, so I might not be entirely crazy :)

I'll keep the 424 till the bloody end probably, at least the busted up parts one that works.

My wife and I are fine as long as I keep her in smoked pork and go off on her hiking adventures with her. (this cuts into electronics time.....)


I know I seem helter skelter on my posts at times, but thats how I learn...... and I always appreciate everyone's advice.

I've been keeping up on your prototype posts and your's and Beags 388 thread.... not so much for the content, but for the methodology. I like the dialog that you two have, and his general questions are right along the same lines as mine.

alright I'd better go here.....right now I'm needing advice on reading this here 244 schematic...... :D
 
sweetbeats said:
Thanks, Beagle.

I think it's likely very evident I go chasing very big gear projects, have high standards and expectations for outcomes with those projects, and have a hard time letting go of them once I'm entrenched. I spend 99+% of my music time working in gear projects, and my motivation to work on stuff and/or create and capture music becomes diminished because I'm overwhelmed with stuff I don't have time for...and I'm an impatient S.O.B.

It's a terrible existence.

I'm really feeling the pull to shrink down my scope and expectations to something more controllable, and as a result have more enjoyment and actually be creating something.

I just sold my MCI JH-416 mixing desk project...fella comes to pick it up some time in October. I love that desk...the heritage, its historical significance, the look...and I'm sure it sounds like nothing else and is a great match for my Ampex MM-1000. But it's just to big a project for me...too much time needed to finish it...I'm sure it would take hundreds and hundreds of hours, and money. I feel good letting it go and we can pay down some debt.

I'm really loving I have a Tascam 58 again...yes it's a project too but mostly just cleaning and refurbishing...and I really love my "M-__" prototype mixing console, which is a period and cosmetic match to the 58...still a bit of a project too and will always need some TLC attention...the 58 is no Ampex wide format machine like the Ampex MM-1000, but maybe the 58 is the right "size" for me...my personality, traits...my needs. I got into this searching for "it" and kept leveling up and super-sizing, always taking on stuff that needed work because that way the up front cost was less...there's a huge back end cost to my soul.

With the MCI on its way out I'm sincerely considering carving out all the more vintage stuff I have...that whole layer that would include the MM-1000, and my 3M M-64 halftrack project...and actually get to play with the toys and make music.

I'd be a lot happier if I could just let myself do that.

So, sorry to hijack the thread...Bob, what is your music production bliss? At least right now? Is it the global multitrack collaborations? Because that is damn cool. And to do it you need a good dual speed cassette 4-track like the 424 mkI right? Done. Don't you still have it? Hey the M-108 is cool. Try it as a front-end to the 424...if it doesn't sound all that different why complicate the setup? Why complicate the setup with trying to collaborate with others having to go into and out of a DAW to modify speed? Pop the cassette in and go!

It appears tension is increasing with your RV mate...I dunno...my 2p.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this Cory. It's always nice to hear others who have struggled and/or are struggling with gear issues. I know I have.

I'll tell you what ... I wish I loved digital recording. Specifically, I wish I loved digital recording on a computer. That would make my life so much easier. I pretty much already have everything I'd ever need, and it all works. I'm not saying that I never run into issues with digital, because I certainly have, but the fact is that it's ubiquitous, so it's usually pretty easy to find a solution one way or another. (Doesn't mean it doesn't make you want to pull your hair out at its worst sometimes, but I digress.)

The reality is, though, that I don't love it the way I do analog. It's a necessary evil for me because I record for my day job often. But when I record for fun, I want to use analog all the way. About a year ago, though, I just about gave up on analog altogether. I'd spent over a decade wanting to put a R2R system together, and it never happened for one reason or another. I'd buy a tape machine that was supposed to work but didn't, etc. When I did have one that worked (a Tascam 38 --- at least I think it worked), I was strapped and couldn't afford a mixer, much less tape for it and eventually had to sell it. This kind of thing went on for a good while. Eventually, I thought, "Ok, maybe a R2R isn't in the cards for me right now, so let me get a really sweet vintage 4 track." At that point, I sold my (fully working) Tascam 414 mkii and ended up on a horrible streak of bad luck with non-working 4-tracks, including a Fostex 250, an Audio Technica RMX64 (DAMN I wanted that thing to work), two Yamaha something-or-others, and finally my Tascam 246.

After the 246 had been in and out of the shop for literally a year, it came back and seemed to be good. I started recording a song on it excitedly, only to encounter severe pitch wobble on the bass track almost immediately. Asking around here seemed to indicate that a new pinch roller was needed. I put the 246 to the side for the time being because I was in the middle of a huge work project that was all-consuming for a good bit.

At that point, I was quite heartbroken, and I actually decided to give up on the analog dream. I still didn't want to use the computer, so I bought a Roland VS1880. I still had the 246 as a pet project, hoping that it would some day come around, but I couldn't wait any longer.

It was about a month after I bought the VS1880 that I got a nice royalty check in the mail and then saw the Fostex 80 system on ebay. So I decided to give it one last hurrah and pulled the trigger. The unit was damaged in shipping (the reel table was bent), but the short story is that the insurance came through, I was able to buy a parts machine, and I fixed the reel table. The Fostex 80 was (and still is) running flawlessly, along with the 4050 remote for it. I snagged the Yamaha RM804 mixer as a companion to it, and I actually had a working R2R rig for the first time ever. (Quickly sold the VS1880).

I almost finished recording one song on the Fostex 80 when I got the email from my friend who offered me his 388 for free. :)

On the advice of some folks here (and my wife), I decided to keep the Fostex rig as a backup in the event that the 388 went belly up. That's not the case---it's very close to fully-functional, but we're still working on that obviously.

Recently, I ordered a pinch roller from Terry's Rubbers for the 246, and after a brief stumble with that, the 246 finally now seems to be up and running. :)

So ... while the 388 is on the operating table, and the Fostex is still in the closet, I've started recording on the 246 finally and have been having a blast with it.

It's been a long and winding road, but I'm actually extremely happy right now with my gear prospects, and I haven't been able to say that for a LONG time.
 
Enjoyed reading your post...

I still remember that song you and your wife covered on your 414 mkII...the one where she was on vocal, and you on acoustic gtr? You did some great work taking advantage of arranging the tracks to maximize a lot of different sounds. Why can't I remember what song you were covering...! It was awesome. You both sounded great and the recording was incredible. Very impressive. Was it Rosyln? St. Vincent/Bon Iver? That is a perfectly haunting song.

Anyway, I've told my story several times over the years...used to record songs and ideas using my Onkyo TA-2058 cassette deck...consumer quarter-track...i dreamed of being able to multitrack. This was back around 1990 and digital gear was still way out of reach...everything was out of reach lol. A few years later I was out of college and working and got a Teac 3340S. To me at that time it sounded unbelievable. I knew nothing about servicing and maintaining it though, and I needed something somewhat portable because I couldn't play and record drums in my apartment...I started borrowing my brother's portable Sony DAT and before long gave up on the 3340S...the DAT was entirely portable, no hiss/noise...it was thin and brittle sounding, but I could take it anywhere so I accepted the compromise. From there over the next 10 years the digital rig grew to a 24-in 20-out Yamaha mLAN setup and Cubase. I did a couple full CD projects and a number of smaller projects with that rig and I was becoming increasingly frustrated at this sonic claustrophobia especially with dynamic sources like drums...I remembered how open and natural the 3340S sounded, like the audio had room to breathe. I had a really cramped recording space, but wanted to test my theory the analog medium had an answer to the claustrophobia, and I got a good deal on a Tascam 238. It had problems when it arrived...the outside track levels were highly diminished, and a little distorted, but I dialed up a neat effect and recorded a test doodle using bass guitar (it's here: https://www.torridheatstudios.com/audio/Personal%20Music%20Sampler/Tascam%20238%20Test%20(wma).wma...it is a wma file so unfortunately it won't be easy to play on iOS devices unless you have a wma player), and I just loved how it sounded. So now for the last decade or so it's been a pursuit of acquiring and trying to fix whatever is the answer for me. I returned the 238 since it wasn't functioning as advertised, and lucked out on a super deal on a Tascam 48 and 58 both for $250. They were in lovely condition, but in my very amatuer state of electronics knowledge and abilities I made a grave error and fried a bunch of the logic over several sections of the 58. During this time I became aware of Ampex...made a rash purchase of an AG-440B-8 that was really only suitable as a parts machine, and while I was part way into restoring that machine, I saw the MM-1000-8 on Craigslist for $300 including an AG-440C-4, and a suburban-load of spare parts and equipment. The MM-1000 had plenty of jank, but it seemed like a match. Years and years later I still have yet to do any serious recoding with it...I got distracted by the fact that it could be a 2" 16-track...so tracking down allll the assemblies and bits and pieces to convert it, and all the nth degree attention to every little part of the restoration process. I have everything on-hand to make it what it can and should be in 1" or 2" trim, and SO much work has been done on it so far. I have piles of spares for it, three 1" 8-track headblock assemblies, a 2" 16-track headblock...but it is too big to get into the house...it won't fit down the hall into the music room, so it sits out in the shop waiting for it to be converted to a music/game/exercise rec room. And it is flanked/surrounded by the secondary and tertiary distractions...halftrack machines, mixers...some vintage analog processors...everything that goes along with an analog studio. Oh and there was the 388 I had along the way too. Oh and the 234 too...geez. I'm exhausted.

My brother and I are trying to get together and record every month or two. We use a MOTU 8M. The converters and wordclock...they're good...the drums don't sound claustrophobic. Somehow it's easy to get good raw sounds with it.

It's about making music, but I've got a problem being obsessed with having the ultimate "thing" to get the best sound and then going way overboard trying to get that thing to be the best it can be in appearance and operation...and having multiple streams of this going on all at once, so everything is always everywhere and never finished to the point that nothing is hooked up in the music room and I've lived here almost a year...and all my cables are in a giant hairy lump under the mixer table and I can't find a cable when I need it...and I'm the kinda guy who likes to sort the paper clips into big and little ones in the pencil drawer.

I guess I do finish things sometimes...I did finish the 388, and the M-520...they came out nice. And I did get that M-512 100% operational...I guess the 48 got all setup...it was 100%...it's just been awhile and the projects have gotten really big...and my life got really messy and complicated.

So I gotta somehow get back to feeling elated like when recording something on that Onkyo.

This is a pretty sick hijacking ramble.

Sorry bachelorb. :o

Again, the message is:

Don't let the tools overshadow creating the music; use what you have until your progress informs you what you need, if there is indeed anything more you *really* *actually* *need*. I'm telling you, really great music can be captured on a 414...Beagle and Mrs. Beagle proved that for me long ago.
 
Enjoyed reading your story as well. Yes this is a bit of a thread hijack, but, IMO, it is pretty pertinent to the OP, so I don't feel so bad. :)

That bass riff on the 238 sounds awesome! I really love it, and I can see why you wanted to pursue that. What a great tone.

That song you're referencing was called "Eyes on Fire," which is a Blue Foundation song. I've attached it here in case you (or perhaps BachelorB) wanted to check it out again.

Oh, and you can also add to your tally all the countless hours you've spent helping folks like me out with troubleshooting their shit! :)
 

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These are great stories and I can relate entirely!! Before we started this adventure, we farmed. You should have seen the line of tractors and implements waiting to get in my shop.... Sometimes a deal is just a deal.... :)

I started playing guitar at 50 and am a cowboy chord rhythm guitar player at best who likes to write and record on the side. I will never be good at guitar or recording (some people are amazing at both), but I enjoy the process. The only thing I have going for me right now is that my wife says I'm the only songwriter in the world to use the word "Pomeranian " in a song :)

I understand where you are coming from (and I appreciate the advice), but this kinda follows my mode of operation.... I did it with guitars for a couple of years too...

I really like the 424. It's intuitive and easy to use. (A lot easier than the 244). My problem with it is finding a space to use it. I generally record in the forward area of the trailer. I put it on my wife's vanity along with a tabletop mic stand, get what cords are needed and play away.... I can only do this for an hour or two at a time because I'm in the way of my wife's closet, or the cat needs to eat (also on the vanity), or the cat needs to use the litter box (under the vanity) or something else. In which case, everything needs to be taken down and put in the plastic drawers.

My current thinking is using a mini-rack mount system instead. That IKEA Rast is the same size as the plastic drawers, and with the Tascam M-08 rack mount mixer mounted on top, and a tape player (maybe a Tascam 134, or 234) I could stay setup and just plug the guitar and mic in and be ready to go.

That's my logic anyways, but the real reason is probably that new old stuff is just cool..... :D

.......anyway.... I'm rambling now.....
 
FB...... That song is great!!!! I love the sound of that guitar. I mean, I really.......really..... like the sound of that guitar!!! I'm going to steal the song if you don't mind and put in my folder of sounds I am trying to produce....

I have never heard that song before.... You and your wife did a wonderful job with it.
 
bachelorb said:
FB...... That song is great!!!! I love the sound of that guitar. I mean, I really.......really..... like the sound of that guitar!!! I'm going to steal the song if you don't mind and put in my folder of sounds I am trying to produce....

I have never heard that song before.... You and your wife did a wonderful job with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That's my wife's Martin, which is one of the very low-end models from them, but it still sounds nice. Yeah I think she heard the song on one of the Twilight soundtracks or something. It was new to me as well. ;)
 
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