Thinkin' about taking some lessons.

  • Thread starter Thread starter getuhgrip
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what you ment to say then is that everybody has his favourite style and is better in that then in others:rolleyes: . However you wrote blues can't be learned which is plain bullshit.

Guhlenn
 
Hej jimistone. Those noodling guys need lessons from a guy that knows more than scales. One of my most memorable lessons was from a jazzpianoplayer that had me playing NOTHING over half the chord progression and then only a few notes on the other half. You CAN learn where not to play etc... It's easy. It would be harder to get these things on your own, a teacher will tell you that you're overdoing it. Finding that out on your own can take YEARS!

Just like you can learn vibrato and string bending.

And even the feel can be learned. Well, to a certain extent. You need a rhythmic feel offcourse, which can be trained upon. And you need to be able to translate that on your instrument. And there a good teacher can help you ALOT.

Good guitarplayers that never play blues or listen to blues will ofcourse suck. But that does not mean that it cannot be learned. And the same goes for bluesplayers, try to have a bluesplayer play a classical piece. That would be fun. :D
 
I hear ya guys blues is about improvising and listening to what's happening around you and trying to make it sound better, (regardless of what instrument your playing) which you could say the same for jazz and other music also. Basically one side of the coin is classical which I would define as a rigid arrangement with no room for improvising (which any kind of music can be approached this way Jethro Tull has this kind of approach)
or blues and jazz which is left open to improvising of a a chord progression or melody, rock music and pretty much everything can be approached this way with the exception of classical.
All in all there are no rules which is what makes music interesting.
And of course anyone playing outside of the style they are use to is going to struggle which means really that if your serious about your instrument you should be open to playing all styles.
In my playing out days I use to have this approach as a bass player and always had work playing anything from oldies to heavy metal to rock to blues to jazz to reggae funk etc.
 
i would love to hear a strictly classical player doing a blues piece... that would be soo weird...

Guhlenn
 
or for that matter guhlenn how about a blues lead over a classical piece that would be quite interesting...
 
or for that matter guhlenn how about a blues lead over a classical piece that would be quite interesting...
 
I've actually heard that. When I had lessons, there were some exercises which were basically fingerpicking blues transcriptions. It sounds alot like a bluesdude with little inspiration. They mostly can't improvise, but it's still kinda the same feel they put in... Sometimes they have the rhythm completely wrong though... :rolleyes:

Classical players do have a score which limits their freedom, but there's still enough parameters to play with. I play in a fanfare, strictly have to play my score, but that only makes it harder to get the feel in it. You have to play things that you wouldn't have come up with and still put the feel in it that is needed. But that doesn't mean that you have no freedom, or that you can't put any feel in it.

There's alot to learn from classical players, and classical players could learn alot from jazz/blues/rock musicians. I hate how they all limit themselves to only one genre. I learned more jazz studying classical harmony than studying jazzharmony. Just because of the way classical harmony is teached, and I had the necessary knowledge to link both. (Classical harmony is teached with exercises, being busy with all the chords and realizing what you are doing with them from a functional point of view is something that gets you waaaaaaay past anyone that has studied a jazzharmony book by heart.)
 
true... everyone shuld be able to play classical pieces.. but it's too damn hard... so the improvising really is lazyness ;)

but seriously, saw one of those classical guys last night on tv... and he actually stated that hehated improvising... since the piece wasn't ment for that... i know this is a bit ignorant but why play it if you don't want to hear your own interpetation?

On the other side learning a classical piece really opens up your eyes when you played rock for a very long period ... (i'm talking bout ignorant me here... ;) )

Guhlenn " black poor tormented missisipi (sp?) classical player" LOL:D
 
guhlenn said:
i know this is a bit ignorant but why play it if you don't want to hear your own interpetation?

Click to expand...

Well, in the classical world interperetation is everything. I read a thing where Segovia says he practices a piece for a year to find the righ interpretation before he ever performs the piece in a concert. I mean, we're talking about minute details that the classical ear will hear that I would be totally oblivious here... So I don't think it's a matter of not hearing your own interpretation as much as it is the level of detail in the interpretation.
 
That's what I mean, when playing classical music, you play with other parameters. The notes are fixed, but there's so much more to play with, volume, tone, rhythm, tempo, getting the rallentando's, crescendo's right, all those little things. And that's where it adds to your ability. When you improvise, you'll get stuck with your own licks, occasionally try something different, but you hardly focus on tone, and all those other parameters. You tend to forget that. In classical music, the notes are fixed so your interpretation IS those other parameters. And that's when you realize how hard it is, and how much work you have left there.

I've been playing Chopin's first ballade for about 1.5 years now I guess. Half a year ago, I started training the complete piece instead of just the first 5 pages. Well, I have the first 5 pages in my fingers now, still the next half to go. Having it in my fingers means I can play it technically. That's when the hard part starts, getting it to where you don't have to care about getting it played, and can focus completelly on the interpretation. Getting that right is freakin' hard! Every note has to sound the way you want it to sound....

Don't underestimate it... And if you still think of it that way, go listen to it. Studying that piece is crazy. Way above my level. I'm still amazed I can play the first half of it occasionally without hurting myself.
 
Exactly... I had a classical guitar class in college. being the cocky fingerstyle player i was going into the class, I thought it would be a breeze... wrong... the instructor paid attention to every freaking note, phrase, pause, articulation, mistake, finger position, guitar position, blah blah blah blah.... every note of the piece had meaning and was not to be just passed over in some sloppy slur... I would memorize the pieces and not even look at the sheet music.. that too was wrong. Consistency was key. He wanted consistency in every performance.. that doesn't mean robotic habit either... that was hard part. Playing the pieces with feeling and passion consistently and the same way every time. Suffice it to say, I sucked at what he wanted me to do. For my solo performance I chose an open tuning steel string tune! hahahaha!!! He didnt' mind that though and that was cool of him.
 
Classical is one thing I've never learned but i do listen to it on occassion and have plenty of respect for it.
And I know what you mean as far as interpertaion of a piece in regards to the sutle things such as accents dynamics etc.
I wouldn't mind studying a classical piece myself that was really interesting post roel.
Yes you can get in the rut of just playing your own licks when improvising that is why I try to look at it from the view of what can I do to make the whole sound better so I really try to focus on what everyone else is doing and compliment it which of course is easier said then done.
Another way of staying out of that rut is to learn the melody of a tune and improvise from that as opposed to just getting lost in a scale
 
y'all are right.

i shouldn't have said
"blues can't be learned"
thats not true cause no-ones born into this world knowing how to play blues guitar.
so, i'll rephrase .....
blues guitar can be learned (if you have a feel for it)
 
jimistone said:
blues guitar can be learned (if you have a feel for it)
Click to expand...
That's more like it. ;)

Yeah, we did that one good. Anyone else in for a brainwash? :D
 
nice one jimi... LOL

and Roel, by no means was i saying that classical pieces were easy.. hehehe... i tried and i failed... man that is hard.. point being of that post that the guy i saw on tv DID not do interpertations... he thought it was a falsification oif the piece... ofoucrse i understand to that there are some parameteres you can play with, tempo, pauses and rythm, not being one of them though... i mean those things are fixed, articulation is almost fixed in a piece... You need to play it the way it's intended... right? well at least with my teacher... (he was good though... learned a freakin lot)

Guhlenn:)

i was wondering; are there classical pieces translated to tab? don't laugh please , i canread notes but if i have to play reading i get really frustrated cuz i SUCK at reading notes... ;):D
 
Ok Jimi I 'll put the attack dogs back in the cage, well said.
Roel; can you suggest any classical guitar players to listen to, I love the sound of the classical guitar but I have to admit I can't think of one person I know that plays classical.
Point me in the direction of a cd to check out if you would please
Thanks
 
only cd that i know is the three amigo's..,./ but what you'll hear will blow you away garanteed!!!

Guhlenn
 
Well... I quit playing guitar over 3 years ago, never really dug into classical guitarplayers. By the time I had the money to buy all the CD's I wanted I already focussed on piano completely. (Chopin's ballades are for piano, btw. :D)

Guhlenn, what you can do to get your classical playing up to level, and your reading skills is just getting a beginners book, one that starts with playing one open string, then after 6 exercises adds another string... That's how I learned to read for guitar (I could read music already, but didn't have a clue where to find the notes on my guitar, although I did play it for over 4 years already.) You can go over these exercises pretty fast, it's just a way to learn the link between guitar and written music with silly exercises. Good for your (finger)picking technique too.

The big thing with tablature is that there's no way to write rhythm. So, since most classical pieces, especially the easier once are not all that easily to find on CD, you'd be nowhere with just a tab... Dunno if you can find it. But it's worth working on the reading skills. There's nothing as much fun as being tired, and uninspired, and just being able to put on a book with easy scores and play. And those books with notes are WAY cheaper than tabl-books!!

Bass331964, you should go to the library and rent some cd's to find your way in there. The CD's are arranged mostly by composer. So go look for Granados, Goyescas, just the typical spanish composers. After a while you'll find out which ones are the best guitarplayers for which composer.

(For example, for one of my favourite pianopieces, I have 4 different recordings, one is ok, one just sucks, and richter plays it even better as Prokofiev(the composer) himself. But you can't find the complete piece (a cycle of 20 pieces) by either richter or prokofiev because they only recorded fragments of it. Mymy... :( But all recordings have their good points. Nothing is completely bad...)

Oh, and about playing a classical piece the way it is written and not interpreting it, I've heard that idea too, Richter did that too. But that is kindof interpreting it like you suppose it is meant to be. Just that they have a better idea what it's supposed to be like. It still isn't mechanical playing. On the contrary!! It's an interesting discussion really...
 
well ,

i know where the notes are... it's just that my reading skills are slow... and i don't care that much (i guess i'm a rocker LOL;) )

You know i had the whole reading thing , then tried to play metallica from notes... took me a week to be able to play the nothing else matters solo... finally learned it by putting on the cd and dicking around... that's were my motivation was shattered:D:D

And about the interpetation thing; ofcourse you always have to interpret (is this a word?) a piece, i'm talkin about the attitude you interpret it with (still using that word!)...

If i want it to sound like the original , i put on the cd... if i want it to sound fucked up i guess ;) ) i'll play it myself

Guhlenn"sloppy&happy:rolleyes: "
 
Well, in classical point of view, it's kinda hard to put on a cd of the 'original'... Chopin didn't use them all that much. :rolleyes: :p

But the thing to get your reading skills up is really playing those silly exercises. I had trouble knowing where my notes were on the guitar too! Just get one of those books, and do about 50 exercises for one week, gradually moving those 50 one-line exercises untill you did all the book. It's kindof learning guitarplaying all again, but from a different perspective. Since the exercises are easy as hell, you can focus on the reading, gradually increasin the difficulty of the exercises, you will need to focus more on the playing and less on the reading, but you'll get used to it by then... Just do it. Go on.
 
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