Thinkin' about taking some lessons.

  • Thread starter Thread starter getuhgrip
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getuhgrip

getuhgrip

Bring Back Transfat!
At 43, I don't know if this is a worth-while endeavor, but I'm probably gonna do it.
I'm curious as to what my focus or diciplines should be. By that, I mean should I start out learning some notation, or should I concentrate on styles and technique?

Should I have some poor young kid just teach me a handful of songs per month that I'd like to be able to play? Surely I'd pick up some valuble knowledge that would be useful elsewhere along the way, right?

Where should I start and what should be key areas? My interests are: a little blues and jazz, a lotta rock rythyms, and a few hot lead licks. Remember, I don't want to be a music teacher. Just a half-ass player.
 
Age doesn't mean a thing Grip.

Neil Peart, one of the best famous rock drummers alive still takes the odd brush up lesson to keep his playing cultured... (Rather than getting stuck in the "same 'ole" rut.)

Go for it!

Im just the encouragment dude... im not sure where you should start... I leave that for the others..:D
 
I was thinking of taking lessons, too. And I'm 31... I did pick up 2 books that have totally changed the way I look at the fretboard... Fretboard Logic Volumes I,II,&III by Bill Edwards. I highly recommend them. I wish I would have had these 20 years ago.
 
JR#97 said:
I was thinking of taking lessons, too. And I'm 31... I did pick up 2 books that have totally changed the way I look at the fretboard... Fretboard Logic Volumes I,II,&III by Bill Edwards. I highly recommend them. I wish I would have had these 20 years ago.

I'll totally second those books. FBL books are awesome; there's really nothing like them. They're EASY to understand, and will really teach you a lot in a short time.

Bill Edwards' site
 
Cool decision - you say you want to be a 'half-ass player'

In what style?

Go find a guy who can play that style really well, who can also teach.

Some theory will be necessary if you want to know what you're doing - otherwise it's just 'licks off of records that I know'.

Have lots of fun - the sense of accomplishment is great.

Enjoy.

foo
 
Taking lessons is a doubled-edged sword. Although there is nothing wrong the idea, the fact is a good music teacher is hard to find, especially when it comes to guitar, and to immediately find one that will teach you something that you will take to heart is next to impossible. The key is to know what you want to learn before you start looking for a teacher. If you want to learn how to sight-read, you are not going to get what you need out of a guy who specializes in blues licks. If you want to learn detailed picking techniques, you won't get it out of a guitarist specialized in jazz rhythm playing. Because guitar crosses so many genres, we get kinda screwed when it comes to one-to-one instruction.

My suggestion would be to self-assess your playing, and try to determine if there is a specific area of playing you would like to learn or improve. Then look for an instructor (or book or online lessons, or whatever) that specializes in that area. You'll save a lot of time and money taking this approach over just picking someone and expecting them to know what you need to improve on.
 
here's a list of teachers using Fretboard Logic in the US. There are addresses and e-mails... see if there's one in your area...

TEACHER LIST

I imagine they wouldn't just do the usual "bring me a tape of your favorite stuff & I'll figure out the TABs for ya" :)
 
participant,

Thanks for the link for Fretboard logic. 45 years of guitar playing and it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me compared to other stringed instruments, maybe this will help.
 
Hi Grip!!

Here are my thoughts.... coming from a "schooled" player who also teaches. First and foremost, you want to focus on those NuMetal drop-tunings and seven string guitars.... ;)

Seriously... there are some things that can ONLY be of benefit to ANY guitar player in ANY style. Seek these things first:

-get to know your way around the fretboard. The beauty of the guitar is that it is all very "pattern" based. If you learn one scale or one chord of a particular "flavour" (ex. minor, diminished, lydian, etc.) and if you can learn it in a way that does NOT involve open strings, then all you have to do is move it up the neck to play it in different keys. (ex. Ab major - scale OR chord doesn't matter - is simply G major moved up a fret....)

-learn the "language" of music. I don't necessarily mean learning how to read music (though that can only be good - I won't get into my "I hate tab because it is responsible for an enormous amount of musical illiteracy among guitarists" rant.) More importantly, learn about major and minor chords, scales, etc. With this, for example, if you are learning a song in the key of E, then your MOST likely chords to expect within that song will be E, B, and A. Beyond that, your likely chords will be C#m, F#m, and maybe G#m, and maybe, but likely, D#dim. These generalities (I won't say rules) will often be broken, but they will give you a good starting point and will allow you to probably work more efficiently. Again, all of this is COMPLETELY independent of what style of music you wish to play. Works for everything!

My first choice would be for a teacher who is, him/herself, a schooled player. Typically, these are the only players who know this stuff well enough to be able to communicate it in a way that makes sense in relation to everything else without making other things more confusing. There are, of course, exceptions. If you can learn those two things, then you will have enough knowledge to essentially teach yourself for years to come.

Beyond that, find a player who is particularly good at an area that you have identified in your own playing that you would like to improve - regardless of their background. For example, I took some lessons myself (after having attained a degree in classical guitar) from a rock guy about an hour away from me who had a couple of gold records on his wall, Canadian Music awards (Junos), etc. I went to him because he was an excellent solo player, and he offered me a lot in regards to "building" a solo, and even in terms of arranging songs, etc. He had an awesome ear, but he didn't know squat about the "language of music."

A good example of this was when I was building a solo for one of my songs, I had a part that was super fast involving triplets crossing over strings. He listened, had me play it about four or five times, and he picked out the ONE note that didn't quite work. He told me to move it back a fret. He didn't know WHY it needed to be moved back - he just picked it out amidst the flurry of notes, and knew that it needed moved and where to move it!! When I noticed my own oversight that I was not in G major, but in G mixolydian (as related to the chord structure of the song) and therefore, the F# that I played needed to be played as F natural, he looked at me like I had three heads. He didn't even know the NAME of the note that I needed to play. (it was the F at the tenth fret....)

So my point is... knowledge of the instrument and of music itself will allow you to be more independent in your own future learning. You will essentially have enough to work with that you can be your own teacher. Once you've got that, you can isolate the things that you are unable to teach to yourself.

Good luck Grip - go find yourself a teacher!

Chris
** I'm currently signing up new students for fall :-) I guess Hamilton is a fair way away, isn't it? ;)
 
It's NEVER too late grip! =)

as for your questions...

ive now been playing for over ten years. even if you Do grab the tabs and notation for all your favorite songs you'll wont be able to play them (at least not well) without having a good technique!

I would definately focus on that aspect first and foremost.

A great book for you to check out (which has LOADS of info on every subject pertaining to guitars and i refer to all the time!)
- "The Guitar Handbook"
author: Ralph Denyer


Good luck! Once you pick it up you'll never stop!
 
-WaX- said:
A great book for you to check out (which has LOADS of info on every subject pertaining to guitars and i refer to all the time!)
- "The Guitar Handbook"
author: Ralph Denyer


that book is scripture. excellent resource.
 
Ordered the combined I & II book today from buy.com for 12.97 and free shipping, not bad.

Maybe it'll cure my boredom. People seem to like what I play but it's like ground hog day.
 
philboyd studge said:
Ordered the combined I & II book today from buy.com for 12.97 and free shipping, not bad.

Maybe it'll cure my boredom. People seem to like what I play but it's like ground hog day.

Dude, you can't go wrong with them :) Anybody interested in the guitar (that I've known) who's used Fretboard Logic absolutely swears by it. Chris Tondreau's post actually ties in beautifully to it. FBL I & II will show you the basic patterns you can use anywhere... how to play the same chord in several different positions on the neck, and it's an extremely simple layout that holds it all together! Bill Edwards is a genius.

Have fun ;)


Chad
 
participant said:


Dude, you can't go wrong with them :) Anybody interested in the guitar (that I've known) who's used Fretboard Logic absolutely swears by it. Chris Tondreau's post actually ties in beautifully to it. FBL I & II will show you the basic patterns you can use anywhere... how to play the same chord in several different positions on the neck, and it's an extremely simple layout that holds it all together! Bill Edwards is a genius.

Have fun ;)


Chad

My Vol III arrived last week. Yippee!!! I might get the video for that one. Hey phil, did ya get my PM?
 
First and foremost, you want to focus on those NuMetal drop-tunings and seven string guitars....

What's the point? I was at a kid's house the other night who thrashed through 40 minutes worth of E,A and D, never touching the bottom four strings! Then he looked at me with sweat dripping in his eyes and asked, "So dude, whatta ya think of my lead riff?" :D

The rest of your post is pure inspiration, Chris. I'm printing it out to take from tutor to tutor as my Objectives Manifesto! He who reads it and says, "Yeah...I hear this guy a mile away!" will be my teacher. ;)

Ok, now that your ass is sufficiently smooched, there's an idea that you threw out that's always been a bit hazy for me. You seem to tolerate (just barely) the absence of "Notational Literacy" if the familiarity of chord and scale structure are present.
I didn't think these were two seperate entities because, by virtue of their assignment (G, C, and so on), chords and scales are still governed by notaional protocol. Ya see what I'm getting at? It's like we're talking about a "back door" approach to learning.

I'm certain that I'm over-complicating a non-issue! :D
Bottom line is that you're giving me a foundation to build on, along with an adoptable set of principals to work from.

Thanks to all for the encouragement. My reference to the age thing was based on the agonizing thought of starting to learn notation from ground zero. I'll check out the books you guys mentioned and start studying scales to the point that I can identify them by sound rather than fretboard position.

The problem with articulating a "style" that I'd like to learn is due to a lack of terminology. I'll be hunting for a "glossary of guitar terms", too.
 
I don't play that much anymore, but I'm still teaching some (female kinda) friends occasionally... hehe.

The thing I love about the guitar is the fretboard logic. (not the book, the logic of the instrument itself.) Particulary the fact the when you know one key, you know them all.

You gotta look for the logic in your instrument. These books will certainly help you with that, but the concept isn't all that renewing really. Move down a string, is moving up a fourth.

It's all about intervals. Try to learn the chords, the intervals that go with each chord, the (functional) meaning of the chords, and then get it to the fretboard. What interval is played how? This will get you 'making up' chords positions in no time. I know alot of fancy chords, never studied chords... You gotta study what's IN the chords, and why it's in there, and if you know your intervallic (is that a word?) structure on your guitar, you can make up any chord whenever you need it.

The same for solo's. Instead of studying just scales, study what intervals are in the scales, what those intervals do...

Did I mention that intervals are important? :D

Also, a good player isn't necessairly a good teacher, or the way around. Mostly, the good teachers just suck as players... And good players suck at teaching just as well. Make sure you get a teacher that realizes the meaning of theoretical background over just licks. Licks are important, but only as a starting point to create your own licks out of what you know.

And some form of notation. I've been reading music since I was 7. I probably read more notes than letters, if you don't count the internet. So, to me it's important. Very important, couldn't have gotten where I am without it. But there's ways to get this all in without mastering sightreading. I even played guitar for 4 years without reading notes for it. Hardly knew what note was where on the neck. Only the first 5 frets or so... hehe. So it is possible. Took me a few months to catch that up, just bought a few classical books...
 
getuhgrip said:


there's an idea that you threw out that's always been a bit hazy for me. You seem to tolerate (just barely) the absence of "Notational Literacy" if the familiarity of chord and scale structure are present.
I didn't think these were two seperate entities because, by virtue of their assignment (G, C, and so on), chords and scales are still governed by notaional protocol. Ya see what I'm getting at?

Hey Grip;

I'm glad you found my somewhat length post to be of value. Sometimes the pessimist in me quietly asks "why do you do this... do you think anyone's going to read a big long post like that??"

About the "quoted bit." I'd say that they ARE two separate entities. Consider.... a person can speak very fluently, and describe the function of nouns, verbs, pronouns, etc. Does it mean that he/she can read and write? Not necessarily.... probably, but not necessarily.

Chris
 
getuhgrip said:


there's an idea that you threw out that's always been a bit hazy for me. You seem to tolerate (just barely) the absence of "Notational Literacy" if the familiarity of chord and scale structure are present.
I didn't think these were two seperate entities because, by virtue of their assignment (G, C, and so on), chords and scales are still governed by notaional protocol. Ya see what I'm getting at?

Hey Grip;

I'm glad you found my somewhat length post to be of value. Sometimes the pessimist in me quietly asks "why do you do this... do you think anyone's going to read a big long post like that??"

About the "quoted bit." I'd say that they ARE two separate entities. Consider.... a person can speak very fluently, and describe the function of nouns, verbs, pronouns, etc. Does it mean that he/she can read and write? Not necessarily.... probably, but not necessarily.

Chris
 
I've been thinking about taking some guitar lessons too. I played piano for 20yrs and studied theory but guitar is still pretty new for me.

The intervals on guitar actually taught me a lot about music that I never really picked up on piano. The way the patterns work on guitar it frees you up a little more than piano. Piano also seems to have a very different feel on different key signatures but guitar liberates you from some of that to a certain degree. But I would still recomend anybody who is studying music to learn theory on piano. It does make it easier to see the big picture.

I'll have to check out some of those books. I hate it when you get stuck playing the same riffs over and over.
 
Ahh.... refreshing to hear others beyond just myself extolling the virtues of learning theory. You make a good point, Tex, about learning theory in relation to the keyboard, in that everything is laid out in a nice straight line in front of you. With strings tuned to 4ths (and a 3rd), this can sometimes be very confusing and hard to visualize. I would, however, argue that using the keyboard as a point of reference for theory is valuable.... one need not know how to play piano in order to learn theory. One need not know how to speak with a British accent in order to speak English.... (I don't think you implied that you needed to study keyboard per se, but some suggest this as a necessity....)

Chris
 
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