the winter of my discontent

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bradw

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I am a songwriter on a very limited budget. My equipment consists of a Fender Rock-Pro 1000 pre-amp, an electric guitar, an acoustic guitar, a bass, several BOSS FX pedals, a stereo system, a BOSS drum machine, and a MD4S 4-track. Most of the stuff is either going in direct or going into my pre-amp before going in direct. I do have a BOSS equalizer pedal but thats about the extent of my mixing capabilities, aside from whats already on the 4-track. What is the best way to record my instruments considering the paltry setup that I've got? Any help is appreciated! By the way, I did have a direct box once but it didnt seem to make any appreciable difference in the sound. Whats up?
 
OK, let's look at it realistically...

...you need to decide the purpose of your recording. If you intend to make serious recordings that you want to show your friends and impress potential buyers of your music, then a limited gear list on a limited budget is not going to make that happen - not only that, but you have to learn a helluva lot about recording techniques before you even get something close to passable - and that's with some decent gear!

SO............. at best, you want to write songs, work them out -- essentially use a recorder as a scratchpad. Therefore, sound quality in this situation doesn't matter a whole lot, you need just enough to be able to work out your tunes and have them be intelligble.

If you plan on investing a significant amount of time learning recording techniques, a gear upgrade is in order. But if not, then I'd continue as you are, writing songs and take them to a studio later on to record professionally.

Not the answer you wanted, I'm sure, but hey... that's the way it is! ;)

Cheers...

Bruce

:)
 
Well, it may have been tha answer he wanted, cuz bradw didn't say what he intended to do. :)

bradw: There is no "best way" it depends on what the arrangement and instrumentation of each song is. You need to ask more specific questions.

The DI box makes no difference because most pre-amps do the impedance matching that a DI box does too, so you don't need it.
 
I'm not familiar with that Fender preamp. Do you like the sound you are getting from it, direct input ? If you own amps for your bass and guitar, then you could spend $90 on a Shure SM57 dynamic mic and buy a quality mic stand.

How are you recording your acoustic guitar ? I've never been a fan of using the built-in pickups. They give undue prominence to finger noise because they are so close to string itself, rather than from a distance with a microphone. They have a "sound" but it's almost electric. If you invest in a condenser mic you can capture the way the guitar really sounds, and you can get different tones just by making small changes to the mic position. Also, a condenser mic can be used to record vocals, percussion, bass, etc. Be prepared to spend some money though. Condenser mics are no place to compromise. They are great long-term investments in your music and I can recommend decent/good ones if you like.

I would just record the drum machine directly into just one input(mono). Because you are using a 4-track you might not want to do stereo recording, saving you from doing too much bouncing.
 
!!!!!!!!

Thank you all for the advice. I should mention that I do have a Sure 58 mike. I believe I left that out of the original equipment list. The Fender Rock Pro-1000 is just a standard pre-amp for what people call a 'half-stack'. It sounds alright considering I have nothing to compare the sound to. I know I'm fudging it, but I have no other choice right now. Right now I'm gnerally running everything through my pre-amp, including drum machine, acoustic and electric guitars. My mike is just waiting for me to record vocals through it. I want to try running my distorted guitar through an amp and recording that with a microphone because the sound I get from recording distorted guitar direct in is really 'flat'. And god help me I cannot seem to blend acoustic guitar with distorted guitar at all. Is microphoning my instruments more the answer?
 
to blue bear

I think the goal I'm setting for myself is to use these recordings as demos to send to record studios. I'm hoping that even though the recordings will be sub-par, the strength of the songwriting will be enough to convince someone to let me record a single or something. I have no illusions about anyone actually wanting to buy something with no packaging or production value. Write back if you think this is feasible
 
Are you running the drum machine through the preamp for any particular reason?

Lineing electrical guitars usually doesn't sound very good. If you think that it doesn't sound good enough you probably need to run it through an amp an mic it, as you suggest. Using a POD is also an option (although I don't think they sound as good).

(Yes, your plan is feasible, thats what most people do.)
 
Your SM58 will work great for recording your amp, I use the same mic on my Hot Rod Deville. I do know that amp now that you mention it....never heard it though.

I think you can get a nice demo out of the MD4 if you only bounce once. I think you could get 6 or 7 tracks with one bounce, that's enough to get a song across. However, you will need a good reverb if you are going to properly present vocals.

I may be in the minority, but I think minidisc recording is good. I teach guitar and many of my students use the Yamaha MD8 and Sony units, and there are some good recordings made with those. It just depends on the skill and effort of the person operating them. I hate the idea of bouncing but with only four tracks you may have to.

Also, run your drum machine in direct, not thru the preamp. Samples hate guitar amps and they sound really strange through them.
 
replying to messages

In response to the question posed by regebro, I am running my drum machine through my pre-amp because it 'wets' the sound somewhat. I love the adjectives that people come up with to describe sound. I can't explain it other than that. Does it make sense to run a drum machine through a pre-amp?
I'm also adjusting the eq of the drum machine using the dials on the pre-amp. I bump the bass up to '11'. With regards to the bouncing stuff it is hard sometimes to predict how the parts you havent played yet will fit in to the overall recording. Thanks again
 
Depending on your music, you can sometimes get 5 tracks out of a four track by doubling the vocals and lead. I used to do this when I used a 4 track. What I would do is put down drums (mono), bass, rhythem and vocals. Then, I would punch in the lead on the vocal track, leaving enough room between the vocal and lead to (quickly) be able to change pan, eq, etc.. during mixdown. You've got to be fast, but it does work. If your music style allows for it, that is. If you have leads that overlap the vocal, needless to say, it wont work. If it does work though, it avoids bouncing for that 5th track.
 
Re: replying to messages


I'm also adjusting the eq of the drum machine using the dials on the pre-amp. I bump the bass up to '11'. With regards to the bouncing stuff it is hard sometimes to predict how the parts you havent played yet will fit in to the overall recording. Thanks again
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You are asking some solid questions here. Good for you. As for pre-amping the drum machine, no it's not necessary but you have found a sound you like so more power to ya. I think you will find that applying the low eq on the drum tracks will work better when mixing down rather than when you are tracking. I'm assuming the MD4 has some controls in it. Wear that MD4 out...chances are you will discover some principles and common recording techniques on your own by experimenting as you are now.
As far as getting your acoustic and electric guitars to blend, well, that's kinda what you want to avoid. Use panning to seperate these two sources if you have tracks available to isolate them, if not, then make sure that they are not occupying the same frequencies as each other. Listen to your mixes on a variety of other sources (boom-box etc) to learn what your mixes sound like before you send them out.
And, sadly, I don't think you stand a chance in hell of sending an unsolicited demo out in today's market and have it heard, much less responded to! But, I am a cynic 'bout such things having watched clients left twisting in the wind after sending demo after demo.
Good luck buddy.
 
Record you drum machine in mono straight into the 4 track, it'll be a lot cleaner sounding and more realistic, the drums probably dont need the lows boosted to 11, you are probably compensating for deficiencies in you speakers.

Next recording the bass direct is probably best as well but if the sound really doesnt cut it you can try running it through the eq pedal or through the guitar amp direct or miking the amp with the 58 about 2 inches from the grill cloth and midway between the center and edge of the speaker, pointing straight at it or slightly to one side.

Next try the electric, leave the mic in about the same position, the center of the speaker will put out more highs and the edge puts out more lows, dont go for a HUGE tone with lots of bite and lots of bass because you need to leave 'room' in the audio spectrum for the other instruments, pick a piece of audio terrain and fit the guitar into it, it should sound kinda small by itself but it wont in the mix.

Now you have the framework of your song, balance the levels, not too much guitars since the vocals still need some room, bounce it all down to one track.

If the acoustic guitar plugs in put it through the EQ pedal and roll off a little of the low end while boosting the high end 'sparkle' quite a bit, this will add a 'shimmer' behind your electric, if you want it more upfront you may need to make the electric smaller to make room.

next record your vocals, mic straight into 4 track.

I dont know your 4 track but it should have some kind of auxillary send, after you are done recording connect a reverb or delay to the aux send/out and turn up a little of the send on which ever channels need it, newbies ALWAYS use too much reverb so look out for this, you might be able to record the reverb to the remaining track or you can just add it when you are recording the final mix to stereo.
 
good stuff

This is some good stuff. I'm glad there is a forum like this for people like me who like making music but are technically retarted. I've gotten some good feedback here. If anyone has information to add feel free to continue the thread. I think there are alot of people out there who are in the same predicament as me and are scared off by some of the more technical jargon that has followed in the wake of computer recording. Not that theres anything wrong with computers, its just that if I had a computer I know I would just play 'The Sims' all day. Also, if anyone has a suggestion on the next peice of equipment I could buy that would best enhance the quality of my recordings without dumping my life savings into it (I have to buy cigarettes too, you know), please let me know. Thanks again...
 
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