The usual Mixer/Interface question.

[VDeGou]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and pretty much to all that is home recording. Right now I'm building my studio and I've been trying to find a piece of equipment that will fit my needs, but given the fact that I have little to no experience in this area, I come to you guys!

I guess having more information is better for you guys than having barely any and trying to guess what I'm trying to do, so here it comes.
I'm a drummer. My main focus will be recording covers in my free time, and then eventually recording my band/other people's bands. My kit can be hooked up with 8 mics. I'm also looking forward to learning how to mix and master properly. I need Firewire streaming because I want to be able to receive each mic separately in its own, dedicated track.

I've been looking around and my main question is this: Is it worth getting a 16x16 mixer with nice PreEQ'ing capabilities for what I need, or would an interface do the job just the same (or better)?
I've been looking at the Mackie Onyx 1640i (tried to link you guys the product information, but I can't for having less than 10 posts) for a very long time, but then I realized...Wait, can't I just add all those pretty EQ effects afterwards through the DAW? Obviously my answer was yes, but I still prefer coming to the guys who know!

After looking at that Onyx, I turned my attention to the Mackie Blackbird. This one looks pretty good for what I need (and its $1100 cheaper!), the only thing being that even though it states being 16x16, there are no 16 inputs! Only 8 physical inputs (correct me if I'm using the wrong terminology) and 8 other inputs I can access if I connect it to another interface or mixer through an ADAT cable.

Is the PreEQ'ing that the Onyx offers really worth those extra $1100, or should I just lay low with the Blackbird? I was thinking maybe the Onyx will make the whole thing easier because I can probably get 80% of the sound I want through PreEQ; on the other hand if I get the Blackbird I will be more motivated to learn how to use the DAW properly.

Also, when I went to a local Mackie store, one of the guys working there told me that the Blackbird had a bit of a "crunch" sound to it. Now, I have literally no idea what he meant by that. Is that good or bad?
Thanks for listening guys, if you need any more information I would be glad to try and get it to you, also I very much look forward to getting reviews from other interfaces/mixers!

Thanks for your time.

 

[mjbphotos]

Mixers are for mixing, audio interfaces are for converting audio signals to digital.
You don't need Firewire for 8 discreet channels. USB 2.0 works fine. Look at the Tascam US1800 - 8 mic preamps. $300 or less.

 

[Mr Clean]

Mixers are for mixing, audio interfaces are for converting audio signals to digital.
You don't need Firewire for 8 discreet channels. USB 2.0 works fine. Look at the Tascam US1800 - 8 mic preamps. $300 or less.

^^^ Best advice^^^

Spend the rest on mics

 

[RAMI]

Hey guys.....

Hey....!

OK, I don't know the particular mixers you're talking about. I'm sure others that know them better will help out, but in the mean time, I'll just put a few points across.

First of all, you probably want an interface rather than a mixer. You don't need to EQ on the way in. Most of that stuff can (should?) be done post recording.

If you do end up deciding on a mixer, make sure it has separate outs for each channel, or else all you'll be sending to your computer will be a stereo track, or 2 mono tracks actually, which will limit how much you can manipulate your drum tracks.

Read the thread at the top of this section called "Mixers and Home recording". It will answer a lot of your questions.

Good luck.

 

[VDeGou]

Mixers are for mixing, audio interfaces are for converting audio signals to digital.

Right, but the 1640i works as both..? Would it be better to have pre and post EQ capabilities with the 1640i or am I good with just the post EQ of an interface?

 

[VDeGou]

Hey, thanks!
Well yeah I tried to link you guys to the website but I'm new so I can't post links yet.
That was actually one of my first mistakes. My dad's building this studio with me and he rushed into buying a 22x2 Mixer. He thought we could use that for recording but to our surprise (and ignorance), we only got 2 outs. Heh.

Good to know that I don't need EQ on the way in! I thought that would make the actual mixing process later easier.
I'll go ahead and read that right now, thanks for your reply!

 

[VDeGou]

Rest on mics... Sounds good!

Right now for starting purposes I got a mic kit, a Pyle Pro PDKM7, and 2 Shure SM57's for my snare and hi hat. I should probably go ahead and get a nice bass drum mic now that I think about it... Thanks!

 

[RAMI]

My dad's building this studio with me and he rushed into buying a 22x2 Mixer.

Hey man, look at the bright side. Most of us WISH our dad's would have made that "mistake" at some point in our lives. Need an adopted brother?

 

[mdainsd]

Welcome! Pretty good first post, you put in some information for people to consider before replying. Much more refreshing than the "Yo, my recordings suck, whats wrong?" LOL.

I think the advice you have received so far is on the money. Get an interface. The suggested Tascam US1800 will do exactly what you want. I use one myself and Im in about the same boat as you. Im a drummer. I have my setup to record me. Other times we do recording for the bands Im in.

No eq on the way in. If you do, information is lost. Then if you want a bit different sound when you get to mixing down, too bad, so sad....

You mention your dad is building you a studio? How far along is he? Do lots of reading (this forum is a great resource) on construction and sound treatment techniques. Lets save ourselves another mixer mistake?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

No eq on the way in. If you do, information is lost. Then if you want a bit different sound when you get to mixing down, too bad, so sad....

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Unless you do some sort of drastic filtering you can pretty much reverse the process. But it is a good idea to be conservative with eq and compression on the way in, avoiding it altogether until you have a clear idea of your goal.

Actually, a mixer is absolutely necessary. That's why interfaces have mixing capability built in, so you can control the balance of inputs and playback. That is generally enough for most users so in most cases an interface is the way to go.

 

[VDeGou]

Hey man, look at the bright side. Most of us WISH our dad's would have made that "mistake" at some point in our lives. Need an adopted brother?

I'm not complaining at all! It was actually pretty good that that had happened. We learned to do a lot more research before jumping into these kinds of things!

Welcome! Pretty good first post, you put in some information for people to consider before replying. Much more refreshing than the "Yo, my recordings suck, whats wrong?" LOL.

I think the advice you have received so far is on the money. Get an interface. The suggested Tascam US1800 will do exactly what you want. I use one myself and Im in about the same boat as you. Im a drummer. I have my setup to record me. Other times we do recording for the bands Im in.

No eq on the way in. If you do, information is lost. Then if you want a bit different sound when you get to mixing down, too bad, so sad....

You mention your dad is building you a studio? How far along is he? Do lots of reading (this forum is a great resource) on construction and sound treatment techniques. Lets save ourselves another mixer mistake?

Ok that interface is being mentioned a lot, I'm definitely going to look into it! But what's the difference say between one of those and the one I mentioned, the Blackbird? I mean, when comparing two interfaces, the sound should be coming in clean right, no EQ no nothing. I feel like asking if the sounds from all the interfaces should be the same but I have a feeling that's not the case, because then there would be ONE universal interface since you can get the same sound.
Long story short, is there a sound difference when comparing two interfaces? Or just amount of I/O's etc?

About the studio, we're just laying down the blocks right now. We're thinking of making a sort of "room inside a room" kind of thing in order to avoid the sound from escaping (neighbors). The whole structure will be 8mx5mx3.2m. It will have a recording booth where all the editing will be done and the actual music room. We are going to put make a "floating" floor, like the inner room shouldnt touch the outer room, and we are going to separate it by placing a strong kind of rubber where the wood will make contact. I'm not sure if I explained myself very well but that's about how its going to be going.
I'll definitely check out the construction section, thanks!

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Unless you do some sort of drastic filtering you can pretty much reverse the process. But it is a good idea to be conservative with eq and compression on the way in, avoiding it altogether until you have a clear idea of your goal.

Actually, a mixer is absolutely necessary. That's why interfaces have mixing capability built in, so you can control the balance of inputs and playback. That is generally enough for most users so in most cases an interface is the way to go.

Thanks! I'm more and more convinced that I should get an interface!

 

[ecc83]

What exactly is that mixer? With 22 inputs it might be upmarket enough to have channel inserts, better Direct Outs. If so the Tascam 1800 would be a good match because that has 10 analogue inputs and that will surely be enough to get you off the ground?

Don't go FireWire unless you have a mac and even then bear in mind that FW is all but dead and such an AI will not work on almost any modern PC (no, not even if it had a FW port!).

The other option is an 8 mic input AI with ADAT capability and MOTU have some excellent models (with all props to you Jay).

Dave.

 

[VDeGou]

What exactly is that mixer? With 22 inputs it might be upmarket enough to have channel inserts, better Direct Outs. If so the Tascam 1800 would be a good match because that has 10 analogue inputs and that will surely be enough to get you off the ground?

Don't go FireWire unless you have a mac and even then bear in mind that FW is all but dead and such an AI will not work on almost any modern PC (no, not even if it had a FW port!).

The other option is an 8 mic input AI with ADAT capability and MOTU have some excellent models (with all props to you Jay).

Dave.

Hey Dave. That mixer would be the Mackie ProFX22. I read a bit on the Tascam, it's only 4 out so I don't think I would be very comfortable with that ):

I will have a Mac, I'm getting a dedicated PC for the recording studio and that's going to be a Mac Mini. May I ask why you say Firewire won't work on any modern PC?

Also if I can just sneak in one more question. What are your thoughts on the Mackie Blackbird if you've ever used one? It looks pretty promising.

Thanks in advance Dave!

 

[RAMI]

I read a bit on the Tascam, it's only 4 out so I don't think I would be very comfortable with that ):

No wait. Are you talking about the TASCAM US-1800??? It's not jsut 4 channel out. With the USB out, you'll get each channel individually into your computer. I have the lower model, the US-800 and it's great. All separate outs.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Hey Dave. That mixer would be the Mackie ProFX22. I read a bit on the Tascam, it's only 4 out so I don't think I would be very comfortable with that ):

Cheap board. I would keep it out of the chain unless there's some routing problem it solves.

Most people who record at home get by with two outputs. You do the mixing in the computer so that's all you need most of the time. Four outputs is nice when you want a control room output for the engineer and a headphone mix for the performer. Four outputs is enough to let you use some outboard effects without losing your control room output. Beside, I think it has six outputs, Monitor Left/Right and Line Out 1-4, but maybe 1 and 2 just mirror Monitor or something.

I use a bigger system, with 24 inputs to the computer, and I only use two outputs 98% of the time.

 

[VDeGou]

No wait. Are you talking about the TASCAM US-1800??? It's not jsut 4 channel out. With the USB out, you'll get each channel individually into your computer.

Damn! Then I must be getting something wrong here... Let me post this straight from the product website:

The US-1800 audio interface from TASCAM offers more inputs than any interface in its class. Up to 16 inputs and 4 outputs are transmitted to Mac or Windows over high-speed USB 2.0 connection. The US-1800 features eight XLR microphone inputs with phantom power and 60dB of clean gain. Six balanced line inputs are also provided, as well as stereo S/PDIF digital and MIDI in and out.

I may be misunderstanding that. Does that mean that one of those 4 outputs is the whole USB, and that USB carries all the information from all the channels?

 

[VDeGou]

I use a bigger system, with 24 inputs to the computer, and I only use two outputs 98% of the time.

There's definitely something I'm not understanding here. So when a board says something like 16x16 that doesn't mean 16 inputs as in channels on the board and 16 outputs as the amount of tracks it can send to the computer? Sorry for the stupid questions heh.

 

[RAMI]

Damn! Then I must be getting something wrong here... Let me post this straight from the product website:

The US-1800 audio interface from TASCAM offers more inputs than any interface in its class. Up to 16 inputs and 4 outputs are transmitted to Mac or Windows over high-speed USB 2.0 connection. The US-1800 features eight XLR microphone inputs with phantom power and 60dB of clean gain. Six balanced line inputs are also provided, as well as stereo S/PDIF digital and MIDI in and out.

I may be misunderstanding that. Does that mean that one of those 4 outputs is the whole USB, and that USB carries all the information from all the channels?

Hopefully Jimmy or someone else that knows the US-1800 will clear it up. I just realized I must have spoken too soon. I didn't realize that the most tracks I ever record at one time is 4. But it seems to me that you can arm as many tracks as you have inputs. I might be wrong, though.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

There's definitely something I'm not understanding here. So when a board says something like 16x16 that doesn't mean 16 inputs as in channels on the board and 16 outputs as the amount of tracks it can send to the computer? Sorry for the stupid questions heh.

Manufacturers like to inflate the board's apparent capabilities by counting things creatively. They may be counting every aux send, bus send, main output, control room output etc., none of which are ideal for multitrack recording. It's a live sound mixer not really suited to the job. You could make it work with some clever routing, especially using a patch bay, but there are simpler ways to get it done. In any case you would still need some sort of multichannel interface as that board doesn't connect to the computer.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Up to 16 inputs and 4 outputs are transmitted to Mac or Windows over high-speed USB 2.0 connection.

No, up to 16 inputs to the interface can be transmitted to the computer at one time, and up to 4 (maybe 6?) different signals (usually in stereo pairs) can be sent from the computer to the outside world at one time.