the singer vs. the lyrics

[starbird]

As some of you may know from my only other topic, I'm going to the studio to record a professional demo.

My self-appointed manager/mother has never heard my music before. My best friend has. My best friend loves my original music, my mother thinks it has potential to suck.

We are recording 5 songs for the demo. I was originally planning on doing 4 covers and 1 original but now I'm not so sure.

The thing I want to not be is Britney Spears. I don't want to be compaired to anyone but I know it will be minimal if I write my own music, like Michelle Branch.

So I'm thinking, should I have MORE than one original song? Its a capella so keep that in mind... but honestly, what's more important? The fact that the talent can sing well or the fact that the talent has extreme songwriting ability? I am trying to see into the minds of A&R here and I don't know what they think. Something tells me that they like the lyrics.

Anyways, my mom, who might change her mind after hearing my songs, is all "I know what music is like, I have instincts, I know they dont want to hear your songs, they want to hear you hit the high notes." And stuff and guess what? If you put Pink, Goo Goo Dolls, Michelle Branch, and even the beatles infront of her, she would not be able to tell you a single thing about them, let alone name them.

So I dont know what to do. I want to convince her that I should do more of my own music but I honestly don't know WHAT to do. You guys give me great advice so maybe you could help me out here, too.

Thanks!!!

 

[badgas]

Ok, lets get mom outta the way first.
She may not know music, but now many non-musicians/singers/songwriters/anyone in the music business do know music, yet they are the ones who buy the stuff.
~ shrugs ~
Listen to mom, take what you think is right for you, and catalog the rest of what she says for a later use. Everyone has an opinion on music. Everyone. Whether they know who the Beatles are or whether they know who Dobro is.
From the tone of you post, I feel resentment toward your mother concerning her views on your music. Rarely does family and business mix, and even more so if one of them knows very little, and to 'target' this subject even further, the manager should know what you play/perform, your style of music, your hopes for the future, your needs in the business, know who's who in the music business, have contacts, etc. etc. etc. Everyone has a style of their own. It may be close to Brittney's, or Michelle's, but it's their own style. The manager should voice his/her opinion on the musice the artist is playing/singing/performing. But that opinion needs to be on a professional level, not mom/daughter.
It should be a team project, with as little friction as possible to make a project as difficult as recording a demo work. You should harden yourself to take critques for what they are, if you haven't already. Some people will offer you advice kindly, while other people will rip you up one side and down the other.

About a cappella. Who buys it? Who listens to it? I highly recommend you get some music on that demo disk with your vocals. If your planning on making some $ on this project, you know past the demo stage, then you want your demo to be as good as possible. What it takes is talent in singing, some good songs, some music to emphisise the lyrics.
I don't mean to put a damper on your hopes here, star, but I honestly believe the only way anyone will take your material seriously is with music, unless you've an exceptionally talented voice.

Then your saying you don't want to be compared to anyone, like Ms Branch. I've never heard Ms Branch's material, but I did read an article about her on Guitar.com a while back. Yeah, she does her own stuff, and she has gained a reputation for for her age and style that says, Michelle Branch. I remember she said she bought her guitar and locked herself in her room for several months. When she came out she had a slew of songs and was a pretty durn good acoustic guitar player.
A dream come true. It takes hard work and lots of time and dedication to achieve this.
Now, if you really want to be known for your own sound, dump the covers and get busy on your own material. Everyone does covers, well almost everyone. Hell, I'm even thinking about doing a Neil Young cover, My My Hey Hey.

I don't know if you have a style and songs already, but you're going to need more than an a cappella demo to get noticed.
I'm not knockin' ya, nor cuttin' ya down. I don't know if you know how to read music, or even tune a guitar. I don't know if you can write lyrics and make a song out of them.
I'm just trying to cover a large broad area here that you mentioned.
Possibly someone else will come along and have a totally different view on your post. I guess I'm living in the gloom of darkness sometimes.

If you want to see things with the eyes of a A&R person you will need to think like an A&R person.
I've been playing music over forty years, I know two A&R people. I knew one of them before she got into the business. There's a lot more these guys do than listen to demos. I honestly don't know if they would listen to any more than a few seconds of an a cappella song. They want music with a beat, lyrics that grab the listener and draws them into the song and leaves them humming the chorus and title long after they've heard it. And a whole lot more.
It's a tough business.
They are a very picky lot, these A&R guys.

Anyway, I hope you get some better tips than what I laided on ya. If you don't know anyone in the music field, I don't mean recording artists but local bands and such, I'd suggest you begin looking around to find some. Think about mom, too. I know she wants to help, but is she capable of leading and advising you in the business? You really should get your own material if you want to be known as starbird when someone hears you and not another Michelle Branch.

Good luck star, I hope you the best.

 

[Sennheiser]

What BG said. Unless your trying to attract the A&R who sign barbershop quartets, get some music on your demo.

Put Mom on the back burner for now. Don't hurt her feelings, Moms always think they know best. While that may be true to a point, it has nothing to do with music.

 

[starbird]

About a cappella. Who buys it? Who listens to it? I highly recommend you get some music on that demo disk with your vocals. If your planning on making some $ on this project, you know past the demo stage, then you want your demo to be as good as possible. What it takes is talent in singing, some good songs, some music to emphisise the lyrics.
I don't mean to put a damper on your hopes here, star, but I honestly believe the only way anyone will take your material seriously is with music, unless you've an exceptionally talented voice.

Then your saying you don't want to be compared to anyone, like Ms Branch. I've never heard Ms Branch's material, but I did read an article about her on Guitar.com a while back. Yeah, she does her own stuff, and she has gained a reputation for for her age and style that says, Michelle Branch. I remember she said she bought her guitar and locked herself in her room for several months. When she came out she had a slew of songs and was a pretty durn good acoustic guitar player.
A dream come true.

I don't know if you have a style and songs already, but you're going to need more than an a cappella demo to get noticed.

Hey

Here's the thing. All of the covers that I am doing are going to be with music (except for me recording the Star Spangled Banner which is always a capella anyways for improv's sake). I can write lyrics, I can tune a guitar, but I can't match nor create a tab for a song I've written because I don't know the dynamics of a guitar that well.

I do not plan to make any money off of it, however I do plan to give it to many A&R execs and people who have connections to them. I didn't mention in my first post that a scout from Columbia Records had contacted me and is the reason why I am finally getting to the studio to record it, because someone at a big company is finally interested and if there's one, there'll be more.

I definately have a style. I sing like a cross between Christina Aguilera and Michelle Branch and Mariah Carey and I write like a cross between Michelle Branch and me.

I have many, many songs that I've created and I just recently (yeah, it took me that long) realized that I cannot judge my own music coz I'm going to think it sucks.

Anyways, my only problem is an arrangement for the music. Because I have less than a week until I go to record and I really don't think anyone would be able to get me to learn to play a song that quickly, especially if I made it up.

So what should I do? is there any way to make up really quick beats?

I have a feeling that my mom might let up on the originality of the demo because she really doesn't know much about this, is right. Maybe I'll even show her a few of these posts and talk to her about how Christina A and Michelle got discovered and la la la.

Thanks for your help. If there's anything else you need to say, go for it, because I need all the help I can get!

 

[badgas]

Hey, star.
The Star Spangled Banner.
Hmmm? Can't think of a better a cappella song than that.
You must really have a voice with some range to it. Your a very lucky lady. It's been said that that is one of the hardest songs to sing.
Now, that puts ths a cappella into prespcective. Now I understand.
Thanks. I withdraw my comments about needing music.

And what I said about covers; I'm very opinionated, and that's all that was, was my opinion. Go for it, if it's in the style and catagory of music you feel in your heart and soul. You have to feel it deep inside to get it across. Sound like you know where you want to go.

There is an old saying that covers a lot of subjects.
"You're your own worse critic."
But don't rely totally on other people. Listen to what people say. Most of the time you can let it fall out of your other ear, but sometimes the way someone makes a suggestion seems to click in the mind. Like someone just opened the door or turned on a light.
Give your own material a discerning eye after you think your done. Play it or sing it for other people, musicians and those other kinds of folks, you know, the ones who aren't into music except to listen.
In regards to playing your stuff for others to see what they think, there is a thread in this forum someplace about playing for family and friends and whether you should tell them it's an original or not and ask them what they think. If I remember rightly, most suggested not to mention it because those non-music kinds of people really don't want to hurt your feelings. Even when you beg for the truth.
Sorry if I got off track. It just came to mind.

Ok, I'm back with you.
About the arrangement of your music.
Do you have a band to back you up? Are you doing a Karokie kind of thing? Four covers and an original. I'm assuming you have the covers down pat, and are concerned about the original.

This is a bit out of my area now, star. How about if I go find a guy or two who can make better suggestions to you for preperations in the studio. They should be able to tell you about the studio and how the arrangements should take place. They do it for a living. I'll see if they'll come over.

Quick beats. All I can say about that, is unless you and the people you work with are really pro's, a quick beat will sound just like that, a quick beat. Gloom and darkness again.

Lemme see if I can get one of those engineers over here.

 

[starbird]

hey, badgas, thank you so much for your comments, I really, really appreciate them.

I talked to my mom about how I felt and after a while, she began to see what I was saying. When we got back into the car, I showed her all the artists that wrote their music, told them how popular they were, and showed her that they didn't even need to hit the high notes an order to get fame. She's now switched from anti-my lyrics to anti-my guitar skills... she doesn't think I'm good enough to play the guitar for myself but I think she may have reconsidered because she didn't realize it was not recorded at the same time. LOL. She wants to hear my music now.

I was also thinking of the 'not telling its an original' thing, too, but I'd have to ditch the guitar during the performance an order to do that. I'll try it out, though. I could say to my mom, "hey, here's a song by LeAnn Rimes that I was thinking of doing..." and then when she says, "that's a good song!" I'll say, "well, it's actually not LeAnn, I wrote that." And see what she thinks. I'll try it.

Yeah, I'm doing the Star Spangled Banner. I've been singing for years and while I'm only 14, I guess I'm a lot better than some people I know. Last time I checked, I had a 3 octive range. By now, I bet I have a 4, it hasn't been since january that I've checked. Let's just say that I can hit the high D over middle C, last time I checked, too. The National Anthem, to me, though, isn't that hard. Sometimes I have problems with "and the rocket's red glare" but that's because I start too high in the beginning.

I'm really reconsidering the cover thing. I am going to do TWO covers and THREE originals (I think..). The only problem is I don't know if people will actually like my lyrics, you know? That's the biggest problem.

So anyways, the second cover I do besides the national anthem will be Karaoke style over a MIDI converted to MP3 from a burnt CD (ha that rhymes!).

I'd definately appreciate talking to some of the guys you know about this. The guy at the studio told me it'd take about an hour per song, I'm assuming that includes editing so I really don't know how long it will all take. I guess I'm not that prepared.

My thoughts are all jumbled right now so I don't think I can say much else, but when you post again, I'll have more.

If you want to talk on AIM (considering you have it) because it's easier, let me know, we can arrange to swap screen names or something. Its always easier than playing message board tag, hehe

Soooo yeah. See ya at the next post. LOL

 

[TexRoadkill]

Songbird, It would really benefit you to find a Producer or Musical Director type of person to help you along. I have very little confidence that you or your mom have the experience to know what to do for this demo. I hope you don't find that insulting but how should you know what to do in a situation you've never been in. I would really hold off on going into the studio until you are really prepared. You may only get one shot to do this for a long time and I'd hate to see you waste it.

I dont know your location or budget but you should find an experienced musician to help you develop your original songs. If your songs are very traditional it could be as simple as somebody sitting with you and figuring out the chords so they can write chord charts and help you make sure the songs work musically.

Some studios offer Producing and songwriting but make sure you hear some examples of their work so you know that you guys are thinking along the same lines. There are also people here and at other websites who could help you by listening to a rough recording of your acapella singing and putting the music together for it. Then you could take those music tracks and have the vocals completed at the studio close to you.

I personally like doing acoustic/pop/rock stuff like Jewell and Sarah M and might be able to help you out. LongWaveStudio is a guy on this site and he's pretty good with dance/pop/R&B. There are others that may be better suited to your style, location and budget.

The bottom line here is get some experienced help if you really want your demo to sound great.

Good Luck-
Travis

 

[starbird]

Hi, Travis

The man who is the House Engineer at the studio doesn't sound all that un-qualified to help me out with the songs in the first place. I cannot hold out on recording the demo because I don't have the time. I've been putting people off for months now (but not the big guys, he's been waiting for a few weeks) and there's no other time.

I would really love to find a musical director but unfortunately, I do not have anyone I can hire with 5 days until I record. To the contrary of your perdiction, however, I do know a lot about recording songs. I mean, I've been doing it in my home forever, and I've been writing songs for almost four years now and writing music for them for about one.

Honestly, my favorite song that I've written only consists of one chord (G) and it basically repeats itself over and over except for a few changes here and there. I personally think it sounds nice.

The only reason why I am bringing the guitar in is because badgas's suggestion of the song sounding so much better with instruments is so true.

When I get signed with a label, I will get an arranger to re-arrange my song for me. I am really bad at playing the guitar when it comes to anything but something I've written, so I dont know whether I'll ever be playing it in the future. I'm not claiming to be a band. I'm an artist and a songwriter, and I attempt to play guitar.

I want to blow them away, but wouldn't it suprise YOU to hear a fourteen year old who's written and produced her own song with the instruments by herself, the vocals by herself, and a song written about things that are well-formed and a subject matter that you wouldn't think a fourteen year old would know about to begin with?

I dunno. I really value your opinion, though, I just don't think it's possible right now. I don't think a man who works at a recording studio would have no idea how to work music, though, so I have faith in him.

I trust myself, too. I may be young and I may not know as much as a 40 year old, but I know what I like and I know what I hear, so if I like it, so will you.

By the way -- if I did have someone arrange my songs, I couldn't perform them because of my lack of guitar skills. Its the same way with me and dance. I am a horrible dancer when you teach something to me, but if I help make it up, I'm amazing. So, its not gonna happen with the amazing backup on guitar, but at least it'll sound good, I think.

If you are interested, however, I can record some really rough a capella of my song and you can hear it and you be the judge. Let me know, it'd take about two minutes to do.

Thanks

 

[starbird]

by the way, there ARE one or two of my songs that I am having trouble finding the right chords to use. I don't need an arranger, but if you'd like to help me match the notes and suggest one to three basic chords that go with the song, I'd really appreciate it. that would go along with me roughly recording it on the computer. so let me know.

 

[Henri Devill]

What Tex said.....In my experience , you need just three songs to give to A&R to get the juices flowin'..Two up tempo and a ballad..Dont give them too much to nit pick over..If you go for a couple of covers try useing something old 60's/70's..Try to stay away from current songs {they are too fresh in the publics and A&R's ears, this will give you a percived newness in a cluttered market}Make sure they were hits and can be somewhat still relevant lyricly..Something like "Aint no Mountain High Enough"ect..Mine the older R&B stuff{Example Lady Mar. was a cover for Agulara and Co.}.As for originals its hard to say without hearing them.Like Tex said though ..find a producer..and be prepared to work hard..Dam ..you are lucky to be 14 and talented ..stick with it!Good luck

Don

 

[starbird]

"you need just three songs to give to A&R to get the juices flowin'.."

I think I'll stick to five. I'd like to give this to my friends and family, also, and I'd like something to show of it. And I have a formula behind it anyways. 2 songs to show my voice, and 3 (it might end up only being 2) songs to show my songwriting. See?

"Two up tempo and a ballad."

Ummmm... star spangled banner seems sorta in between, at least two ballads, and probably one in the middle, and one up tempo.

"If you go for a couple of covers try useing something old 60's/70's.."

Mhmm. Both of my covers are written long time ago... as I said, I am doing the national anthem (written in 18whatever) and a song from the musical Les Miserables which was written in the 30's-70's but I can't quite remember. LOL

"As for originals its hard to say without hearing them."

I know it might not be like this, but I once heard someone say that if you're singing from the heart, then no one will think it's bad. It's like telling someone that they cant feel a certain way, I guess. I dont know if it's true or not, though.

"be prepared to work hard.."

Oh I've been working hard since I was 10, don't worry about that!

"Dam ..you are lucky to be 14 and talented ..stick with it!Good luck"

Thank you! I appreciate it

 

[TexRoadkill]

If you are interested, however, I can record some really rough a capella of my song and you can hear it and you be the judge. Let me know, it'd take about two minutes to do.

Can you create some MP3's? If so create an account at www.nowhereradio.com and I'll give them a listen. I might be able to give you some suggestions.

 

[starbird]

done. I PMed you about it, Travis, didn't want to post it here. check your messages, it's there.