D
DM60
Well-known member
Any of you folks looked into this new offering by Behringer? Seems they are coming out with a lot of hardware these days.
Papanate
Well-known member
I checked it out - having the real Neve for a long time - it is fairly close to the sonic footprint - amazing so for the $500 pricetag.
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
It will always be a lookalike. I believe Heritage Audio do lookalikes too.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
I'll make a few predictions:
1 They'll sell a bunch of them based on glowing reviews in magazines and on internet forums.
2 The audio illuminati will decry that it's pure junk and doesn't hold a candle to a real Neve. It doesn't have the proper components made of unobtainium.
3 There will be an onslaught of video reviews saying that it's 98% of a true Neve for 20% of the cost.
4 Several dozen used units will show up on Reverb within a month because it didn't turn everything into magic.
5 The audio world will move on to the next big thing.
The Behringer will get roughly the same treatment as Warm mics and interfaces and others. No matter how good something is, it's never exactly the same as the original. It might even be better, but nobody will ever say that. It really won't matter if they are decent performing equipment or not, or if they give a very affordable approximation of the original design.
1 They'll sell a bunch of them based on glowing reviews in magazines and on internet forums.
2 The audio illuminati will decry that it's pure junk and doesn't hold a candle to a real Neve. It doesn't have the proper components made of unobtainium.
3 There will be an onslaught of video reviews saying that it's 98% of a true Neve for 20% of the cost.
4 Several dozen used units will show up on Reverb within a month because it didn't turn everything into magic.
5 The audio world will move on to the next big thing.
The Behringer will get roughly the same treatment as Warm mics and interfaces and others. No matter how good something is, it's never exactly the same as the original. It might even be better, but nobody will ever say that. It really won't matter if they are decent performing equipment or not, or if they give a very affordable approximation of the original design.
D
DM60
Well-known member
You've been here before? To know the future is to know the past.
rob aylestone
Moderator
My conclusions with mics exactly. The ones you cannot afford you dribble over, until you buy one and discover it is far from perfect, using modern standards. The hifi brigade even invented descriptive words to describe these things.
PorterhouseMusic
Well-known member
Was going to say the same thing: Think "Warm Audio" (disclosure: I own a bunch of Warm gear - and am quite happy with it)
Papanate
Well-known member
Warm Audio products while decent are very good emulations of the products they are emulating - one thing is you have to own 4 -6 of the Neve preamps - then restore them as close to spec as you can- then decide if they are worth it.
CoolCat
Well-known member
Behringer has joined what WARM does, basically copying old patented gear and selling at a cheaper price.
Its often better than a novice could pull off in DIY.
I always saw these clones that way, Cheaper, prebuilt DIY kits ...done for you for a cheaper price than the Original OEM.
WARM might spend a bit more on a transformer name brand than Behringer would.
Its often better than a novice could pull off in DIY.
I always saw these clones that way, Cheaper, prebuilt DIY kits ...done for you for a cheaper price than the Original OEM.
WARM might spend a bit more on a transformer name brand than Behringer would.
S
shmaller
Member
just chiming in to say I got a great deal on a Warm WA-2A (LA-2A knockoff) and while I could live without it, it sounds good and makes my workflow easier!
PorterhouseMusic
Well-known member
My WA-2A and WA-EQP are easily my favorite pieces of gear. I don't have any idea how the real deal(s) compares. Dudn't matter at this point - they're very useful.
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
They are on the streets now, I saw yesterday.
Behringer have made some very good products, that I use every day.
Maybe I'll try the Neve copies, just to see.
Only snag is Neve is built up to a standard, while Behringer is built down to a price.
Behringer have made some very good products, that I use every day.
Maybe I'll try the Neve copies, just to see.
Only snag is Neve is built up to a standard, while Behringer is built down to a price.
N
noah330
Active member
I've done the cheap thing and I've done the mix and match quality gear thing.
These days, I have one of those little API mixers, a 4 channel API preamp and a couple (Audio Scape) LA-2A and 1176 comps along with a nice old Larc reverb by Lexicon.
I've found (for me) keeping to the things I like quality beats quantity and keeping the impedances right through the console makes a big difference. It's amazing how few plugins I use aside from gates or parametrics.
These days, I have one of those little API mixers, a 4 channel API preamp and a couple (Audio Scape) LA-2A and 1176 comps along with a nice old Larc reverb by Lexicon.
I've found (for me) keeping to the things I like quality beats quantity and keeping the impedances right through the console makes a big difference. It's amazing how few plugins I use aside from gates or parametrics.
Scott Baxendale
Well-known member
I have not had this experience with my high end mics. In fact the opposite is more true. They sound fantastic. Better than perfect.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
In other words, they don't actually capture the sound accurately. They capture things that aren't really there which is better than reality.
That's an good trick. I guess they are the audio equivalent of air brushing Playboy playmates....
Scott Baxendale
Well-known member
That was not my point. How are they not accurate? If they sound great why is that inaccurate? Mics sound different just like guitars.
TalismanRich
Well-known member
"They sound fantastic. Better than perfect."
a : being entirely without fault or defect : flawless a perfect diamond
b : satisfying all requirements : accurate
c : corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept a perfect gentleman
d : faithfully reproducing the original specifically letter-perfect
A guitar is the instrument that creates a sound, just like a voice, drum or organ.
For me, the microphone's role is to capture that sound accurately. Of course none of them are truly perfect. They are all "air brushes". Whether you like that particular brush is a matter of taste. But the fact that something doesn't have an astronomical price take doesn't mean that it can't have excellent performance, and vice versa. An astronomical prices doesn't guarantee excellence.
a : being entirely without fault or defect : flawless a perfect diamond
b : satisfying all requirements : accurate
c : corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept a perfect gentleman
d : faithfully reproducing the original specifically letter-perfect
A guitar is the instrument that creates a sound, just like a voice, drum or organ.
For me, the microphone's role is to capture that sound accurately. Of course none of them are truly perfect. They are all "air brushes". Whether you like that particular brush is a matter of taste. But the fact that something doesn't have an astronomical price take doesn't mean that it can't have excellent performance, and vice versa. An astronomical prices doesn't guarantee excellence.
rob aylestone
Moderator
I can accept the fact that mics all sound different, and often the difference clusters them together. Once you have heard a ribbon, the characteristics stick in your head, same as the clean and revealing small diaphragms. Large diaphragms again seem to have common traits we can hear. However, it’s like when you save up for your first really good brand name guitar, only to find it’s nice to look at but you still prefer your cheaper old one. Because I stupidly collect microphones, and worse, am lazy and clumsy, I have what I always refer to as three categories of mics. The ones that never get put away and seem to always live in the studio. Currently, there is a 414, an SM7B and a 58 always plugged in and ready. The biggest category are in foam cutout cases I can go to quickly, but rarely do, and the worst category are the mics I could get out, but rarely do. I recently sold a Cole’s when somebody offered me good money because 1. I never used it, and 2. It was far too fragile for my level of damagability. In this category, in their original boxes sits an RE20 and 320, an MXL ribbon, a U87 and an SM7dB. I simply cannot use the epithet better than perfect for these mics. I use them when the others don’t seem to work as I need. An 87 does not work for every voice. It sounds wrong on mellow saxes. That’s not perfect, it’s selective. The RE20 cured a problem recently on a Hindu chant, where the person makes very odd to western ears clicks and noises. She hated my usual choices, but loved the RE20. I now have that nugget stored away for future problem solving.
I suppose it’s what ‘perfect’ actually means. I have had three different land rovers. The Range Rover is by far the best car I have ever owned. Sadly, ownership also means I know the names of the people in the garage who fix it regularly, and constantly scratch their heads when it fails and they have to repair it. It’s for me the best, but I could never say it’s better than perfect.
I suppose it’s what ‘perfect’ actually means. I have had three different land rovers. The Range Rover is by far the best car I have ever owned. Sadly, ownership also means I know the names of the people in the garage who fix it regularly, and constantly scratch their heads when it fails and they have to repair it. It’s for me the best, but I could never say it’s better than perfect.
Scott Baxendale
Well-known member
My point was, I have a bunch of mics in all price points, it the high end mics that I invested, say over $1000, in are all incredible mics that sound fantastic when I use them paired with a good preamp give me sounds that sound like records.
I used to work with a guy whose motto was always All Ear/ No Gear. He used a bunch of 57’s through a Mackie mixer to record tracks, then do a million things in post to manipulate the tracks to make them sound reasonable. I started out the same way. However, once I got my first API rack of preamps and a AKG414 then all of a sudden I didn’t have to do all that complex manipulation of each track just to make it listenable. It sounded right from the beginning. I still use the 57’s though…
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
Few things sound better on a guitar cab than a SM57.
My path was pretty similar to yours, for what its worth - I'd recorded for years with the stock preamps in whatever interface I was using at the time and pretty budget consenser mics - I think my go-to for the longest time was an AKG C3000B, back when that was kind of an ubiquitous "starter" LDC. Still have it, haven't touched it in years... but, one tax/bonus season I decided I'd start investing in my recording gear a little more heavily, getting ready for the next album I was going to write and record (which I didn't end up finishing writing for another seven or eight yearsand am only recording it now, lol), and I grabbed a pair of C414-style sE Electronics SE4400as and a two-channel BAE 1073MP on a friend's recommendation off Sweetwater.
And I think your comment on "complex manipulation" is 100% accurate. I was pretty happy with the acoustic recordings I could make at the time (and the preamps in my Apogee Ensemble were certainly quality), but it would generally be a matter of some EQ, a "color" compressor plugin like a LA2A, maybe a little saturation... and pretty much straight to tape theSE4400 through a BAE Neve-style EQ just sounded better. I found myself no longer thinking I needed the compressor for color and often times would prefer something "cleaner" for dynamics processing, since the fundamental tone sounded pretty good as it was.
Could be placebo, could be all in my head, could be real, who knows. All I know is the rough mixes I have already sound way better than my last album, and that's still with guitar amp tones that will ultimately get reamped still provided by VST. And, the acoustics in particular sound spectacular.
Add to it the fact that when I do retire my Apogee, I'm not going to have a new set of preamps to learn because I have a rack of outboard pres I already know well and know what sounds good on what to me... and I think maybe you can nitpick some outboard gear, but if you're using mics, really good preamps are REALLY worth it.
