The Secret To Great Recordings

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That's funny--I'm just the opposite. As much as my favorite music may be 70's and 80's (some 60's) I definitely favor today's bone-crushing-in-your-face approach to recording, mixing & mastering.

My dream project would be to take a bunch of my favorite classic rock recordings of the 70's and produce them with more of today's sensibility: drums that crack the sternum, wall of guitars, voices that sound like they're sitting next to you--well, you get the picture.

I guess I'll never be accused of being a purist. :)

I agree with this 10000000000000%. Imagine how bad ass Keith Moon would sound if you could actually hear everything he did. :eek:

I much prefer "todays sound" over the flat sounds of the 60's and 70's. I hate today's music though. Yesterday's music + today's sound = awesomeness.
 
Some of the greatest RnR I've heard has been by very limited players.
.

I agree with this too 1000000000%. You don't need to be a viruoso to make awesome rock and roll. Hell, it's probably better if you aren't.
 
Imagine how bad ass Keith Moon would sound if you could actually hear everything he did. :eek:

I much prefer "todays sound" over the flat sounds of the 60's and 70's. I hate today's music though. Yesterday's music + today's sound = awesomeness.
I can't help thinking that somehow the feel of so many songs of past eras would change if today's stuff was applied. Sometimes when I hear remixes of older records in the modern clime, they sound weird to me, especially when I've been used to every nook and cranny for 40+ years and then they get 'cleaned up'. {It's a bit like those old black and white photos that get touched up to be 'colour'. They just look odd to me}. Maybe part of what made them was the way they were made. Leave them be, they were what they were. Now is now !

i like music from every decade ive been alive in so far..I dont think any of it sounds particularly better than any other time as whatever shortcomings in technology, or style of recording, or instruments used, colour the music with each decades own particular flavour

and i like them left just like that


the common "modern equals rubbish" sentiment thats seems to get thrown about is just because we get older...whether we like it or not nostaligia and music go hand in hand...something else i wouldnt change


imo

:)
I'd agree pretty much with all of that. Alot of modern stuff is rubbish though ! The law of averages dictates that there must be some rubbish. And I'd say the same about every era of music thus far.

Some of the greatest RnR I've heard has been by very limited players.
Some of the greatest players I've heard have recorded most of the pointless exercises disguised as music.
One of the most fascinating aspects of the popular music era (from the start of the 20th century onwards) for me is the way the technician, the virtuoso (and virtuosos aren't necessarilly trained or musical theorists - lots of virtuosos have been musical primitives), the classically trained, the theoretic expert, the maverick, the thinker, the poet, the romantic, the good timer, the socially conscious, the self taught - all these and more, came together in varying degrees, just for the purposes of making music, whether writing, playing, recording, producing or marketing the music. People, often classes and worlds apart.

I honestly think that different things at different times make good recordings and the key word there is recordings.
 
It seems to me that, as has been the case for the last century, technology drives the tastes of contemporary mainstream music. The impact of synths is a lurid example of this...from the cheesy Vox Continental organ, which Ray Manzarek beat into submission and many bands lept to incoporate, to the uber glossy FM synths of the 80's. Digital sampling had and continues to have, a huge impact. Prior to the mid 80's, if a song had strings on it, you could damn well count on them being actual strings arranged by someone that had some knowledge of orchestration.
Today, IMO, songs are better described as assembled. Yesterday, they were written.

Good writing/performance will trump superior assembly to a knowledgeable listener. There's still some great songwriters working, but the songwriter to assembler ratio is getting a bit wide.
 
I would agree the beginning to a good foundation is the players...I still feel you need some guidance or someone on the sideline trying to get the best out of the band.

You also need some half decent gear to capture the essance of the band...half decent mics,guitars,amps ect.

Then you need someone who can do a good job at mixing the songs.
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My favorite decades for music are the 70's,late 2000 's-2010.

Least favortie are the 90's, and most of 2000's....never liked grunge and that whole backstreet boy band thing was horrible.

There were some decent tunes in the 90's and 2000's however overall I didnt like the music.
 
I don't get the whole "music of decade X" categorization. Some one please tell me what "70's music" actually means, other than something that was recorded in the 70s?

Arguments can be made for metal, disco, NY punk, operatic rock, college rock, funk, fusion, and probably a few others as being "the music of the 70s", depending upon what neighborhood one grew up in and what radio station one listened to.

---

And musicians can live without those behind the glass, but those behind the glass cannot live without the musicians. That should set the order of importance right there.

G.
 
After 30+ years, I finally rediscovered the secret to good recordings.

It's not the gear (duh!)
It's not the engineer (wha?)
It's not even the room (heresy!)

It's the players.

This may seem obvious, but I swear, older recordings I made in shitty rooms with shitty equipment sounds better than newer recordings I made in a nice room with boutique equipment and better engineering skills with less than kick-ass players.

Now, either flame away in disagreement, or pummel me for my grasp of the obvious.

+1

It is the songs and the musicianship performing them.

Since I am neither the songwriter nor performer, I focus my efforts on my engineering skills and learning the equipment I can afford at the moment to help make the music better.
 
Of course the first consideration is that you need to have something worth recording. Without it, this is all pointless because nobody is going to want to listen.

That said, I can think of a few recordings of great players where the engineer blew it. IMO, some of those classic Deep Purple recordings sound like total ass. And it certainly wasn't as if those guys couldn't play or had bad tone. Even relative to other recordings made in that era, the quality is subpar IMO.

Same with old Misfits recordings. Danzig sounds OK but otherwise it sounds like they are recording on a low budget Yamaha 4 track.
 
Same with old Misfits recordings. Danzig sounds OK but otherwise it sounds like they are recording on a low budget Yamaha 4 track.

Earth AD was recorded totally live, after a gig, in a concrete basement under the venue.
 
I don't get the whole "music of decade X" categorization. Some one please tell me what "70's music" actually means, other than something that was recorded in the 70s?

nope its something that was recorded in the 70's period.....
 
I'll be one to disagree. It's the room BY FAR that is the biggest difference between pro sounding recordings and crap home recording. The player doesn't have anything to do with the quality of a recording. You can make a great recording of someone puking. That doesn't mean someone would love the sound of it, but it would be a great recording of puking. Look at sound effects libraries. These aren't good players cause no one is playing, but you can still hear the quality recordings. So for me, the room is far and away the biggest factor in a pro recording and second place isn't even close. Go read everything from Ethan Winer and then come tell me the room isn't the number one thing. Any sound can be captured in a great recording, so a bad player even with a bad instrument can still be recorded in a pristine way.



After 30+ years, I finally rediscovered the secret to good recordings.

It's not the gear (duh!)
It's not the engineer (wha?)
It's not even the room (heresy!)

It's the players.

This may seem obvious, but I swear, older recordings I made in shitty rooms with shitty equipment sounds better than newer recordings I made in a nice room with boutique equipment and better engineering skills with less than kick-ass players.

Now, either flame away in disagreement, or pummel me for my grasp of the obvious.
 
I'll be one to disagree. It's the room BY FAR that is the biggest difference between pro sounding recordings and crap home recording. The player doesn't have anything to do with the quality of a recording. You can make a great recording of someone puking. That doesn't mean someone would love the sound of it, but it would be a great recording of puking. Look at sound effects libraries. These aren't good players cause no one is playing, but you can still hear the quality recordings. So for me, the room is far and away the biggest factor in a pro recording and second place isn't even close. Go read everything from Ethan Winer and then come tell me the room isn't the number one thing. Any sound can be captured in a great recording, so a bad player even with a bad instrument can still be recorded in a pristine way.

That's insane.

Record a beginning sax player on a $100k PT rig in a pristine room.

Record Wayne Shorter on a Tascam 244 4 track cassette.


The Wayne Shorter recording will completely kick the PT's ass.

A good recording generally is one that people want to listen to.
Don't confuse accuracy with good.:cool:
 
Kinda reminds me of the expression, "you can't polish a turd."
Except that a turd can be polished. I wonder how many recordings exist that are, to some extent, turd polishings that we will simply never know about but dig anyway.
Alot of this going to be down to personal taste anyway.
That said, I can think of a few recordings of great players where the engineer blew it. IMO, some of those classic Deep Purple recordings sound like total ass. And it certainly wasn't as if those guys couldn't play or had bad tone. Even relative to other recordings made in that era, the quality is subpar IMO.

I say that with this statement in mind. I think those LPs (if it's "In rock", "Fireball" and "Machine head" that's being referred to) sound fantastic. Unless you listen to the Portuguese pressings.....





It seems to me that, as has been the case for the last century, technology drives the tastes of contemporary mainstream music. The impact of synths is a lurid example of this...from the cheesy Vox Continental organ, which Ray Manzarek beat into submission and many bands lept to incoporate, to the uber glossy FM synths of the 80's. Digital sampling had and continues to have, a huge impact. Prior to the mid 80's, if a song had strings on it, you could damn well count on them being actual strings arranged by someone that had some knowledge of orchestration.
Today, IMO, songs are better described as assembled. Yesterday, they were written.

Good writing/performance will trump superior assembly to a knowledgeable listener. There's still some great songwriters working, but the songwriter to assembler ratio is getting a bit wide.
Recordings have always changed as the technology developed. And people, being what we are, have always used the current, new and existing technology in ways that the inventors of said technology did not forsee. That's partly what has made music of the last 100 years such a boon and a bane ! Who would've thought that a tape based sampler meant for families to play on sunday afternoons at home would become one of the staple sounds of British psychedelia and nascent progressive rock ? And that much of the character of the sound and playing technique that the players of it developed, derived from the fact that it was moved about from gig to gig to studio to rehearsal space and constantly went out of tune because it wasn't in the corner of the family front room?
As for songs being assembled, The instant Les Paul put into practice multitracking, assembly became part of songwriting. Hence the difference between writing and arranging a song and the recording of it. When many songwriters in the recording age's early days 'wrote' songs, whatever they had in mind was rarely the final recording. But as bands and artists became more self contained, penning their own stuff, the studio became more and more a part of the writing and arranging process.
I don't see assembling as a negative. It's 'technological arranging' that many many bands and artists have utilized for the best part of half a century.

I'll be one to disagree. It's the room BY FAR that is the biggest difference between pro sounding recordings and crap home recording. The player doesn't have anything to do with the quality of a recording.

It would appear from the responses thus far that there are actually a number of different 'secrets', depending on who you talk to ! :D
 
This may seem obvious, but I swear, older recordings I made in shitty rooms with shitty equipment sounds better than newer recordings I made in a nice room with boutique equipment and better engineering skills with less than kick-ass players.

Todzilla,
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "better" ?
 
So then sound effects libraries are not ande cannot be good r4ecordings? Nope, a good recording is a good recording, no matter what the sound is that's recorded.



That's insane.

Record a beginning sax player on a $100k PT rig in a pristine room.

Record Wayne Shorter on a Tascam 244 4 track cassette.


The Wayne Shorter recording will completely kick the PT's ass.

A good recording generally is one that people want to listen to.
Don't confuse accuracy with good.:cool:
 
That's insane.

Record a beginning sax player on a $100k PT rig in a pristine room.

Record Wayne Shorter on a Tascam 244 4 track cassette.


The Wayne Shorter recording will completely kick the PT's ass.

A good recording generally is one that people want to listen to.
Don't confuse accuracy with good.:cool:



Thinking more on this, the Wayne Shorter recording in a bad room will still be a bad recording and it will actually sound bad, yep. talent doesn't stop standing waves and flutter. Talent doesn't stop bass build up in untreated corners. Sorry, but talent doesn't stop frequency smear and all kinds of horrible problems from a bad room. I ahve made many a recording of wonderful singers in bad rooms, and the recordings still sounded bad. they were bad, smeared, recordings of a great singer. It's really that simple. If you can't listen to a recording and actually hear the bad room and realize that the room is the problem, then you haven't been recording and listening long enough. Again, I have recordings of great singers made in small bedrooms with no bass trapping and the recordings sound horrible, no matter how good the singer is. I can easily hear a pro sounding room and so can any engineer who is worth his salt. A poor room is a poor room and nothing can change that, not talent, not wishing, not hoping. You change it by fixing the room to get rid of standing waves and frequency smear, flutter, and comb filtering. It's really that simple. You need to read at Ethan Winer's site. Absorb it, learn it, know it.h
 
Todzilla,
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "better" ?

Sure. The stuff I've recorded with really good players - their skills translate into tones that are more pleasing to the ears. Even a single snare hit by a good player sounds punchy compared to that of a mediocre player. A single power chord held out to sustain sounds sonically superior to that of my ham fisted technique, even though it could be the same chord, same guitar, same amp, same recording chain as the pro guy.

I don't know why, other than really good players know just how to hit a drum, fret a guitar, time an organ swell to sound good.

Certainly, other factors are important, but none as critical as the player.
 
Thinking more on this, the Wayne Shorter recording in a bad room will still be a bad recording and it will actually sound bad, yep. talent doesn't stop standing waves and flutter. Talent doesn't stop bass build up in untreated corners. Sorry, but talent doesn't stop frequency smear and all kinds of horrible problems from a bad room. I have made many a recording of wonderful singers in bad rooms, and the recordings still sounded bad. they were bad, smeared, recordings of a great singer. It's really that simple. If you can't listen to a recording and actually hear the bad room and realize that the room is the problem, then you haven't been recording and listening long enough.
Depends on what you mean by "bad".
I think you may find most punters that buy and listen to music are easilly satisfied. I've got to be honest and maybe this emphasizes my ignorance in these matters (I couldn't deny it ! ) but when I listen to recordings, I simply don't hear rooms. I hear music.
 
Sure. The stuff I've recorded with really good players - their skills translate into tones that are more pleasing to the ears. Even a single snare hit by a good player sounds punchy compared to that of a mediocre player. A single power chord held out to sustain sounds sonically superior to that of my ham fisted technique, even though it could be the same chord, same guitar, same amp, same recording chain as the pro guy.

I don't know why, other than really good players know just how to hit a drum, fret a guitar, time an organ swell to sound good.

Certainly, other factors are important, but none as critical as the player.
Ah, now I get you. Can't argue with that although you're right, there are also other important factors.
 
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