The problem with music.

  • Thread starter Thread starter tjohnston
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Tanlith,
I assume you were addressing weatherbill there. I think Chris pretty much put it in perspective.
He buys Golden Grahams.



bd
 
do you realize the millions spent every month by consumers on music....its mind boggling.

if you're dealing with a bunch of broke people you're aiming at the wrong market

instead of bitching about all the people that don't buy cd's or have any money, sell cd's and play for the people that are spending billions on music now.

theres too much money flowing in the music business to buy into the "nobody's got any money" thing

if you're not getting your share of all that money its your fault.

im not trying to be a smartass just being honest....im in the insurance business and sometimes i kid myself into thinking "nobody has any money" but I know better
 
tjohnston

"Some people just dont have any money. After the cost of food, water, shelter, insurance, taxes and loans your left with enough for four chicken nuggets."

People aways have money for smokes, beer,music and bingo........loose the nuggets

"The people in bars and clubs where you play are just a bunch of drunks and druggies who are 10 months behind of their child support."

Thats like saying people in church are Jesus freeks

"Who really cares anyway? The average person cares little about you or your cd. If your not on the radio then you are labeled as not the real thing."

Go to:http://www.musicbizacademy.com/comment/klovegreed.htm
and read over and over........good free advice

"People are scared that your CD is going to be a waste of money.. There is so many horrible, Sh*tty sounding bands out there. Who to say that your not one of them. "

Can you play in tune?
Can you play in time?
Can you right songs that people remember?
Does you CD look presentable?
Would you buy it?
Is it a reasonable price?
Are you having more sex now?
Do you believe in the music?

Thanks for taking this survey.....if you have answered YES to all of the following then get off your ass and get to work.
If you answered no ...sell everything and buy a good stereo
 
would you buy a CD from these guys
 

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jimistone said:
do you realize the millions spent every month by consumers on music....its mind boggling.

if you're dealing with a bunch of broke people you're aiming at the wrong market

instead of bitching about all the people that don't buy cd's or have any money, sell cd's and play for the people that are spending billions on music now.

theres too much money flowing in the music business to buy into the "nobody's got any money" thing

if you're not getting your share of all that money its your fault.

im not trying to be a smartass just being honest....im in the insurance business and sometimes i kid myself into thinking "nobody has any money" but I know better
Click to expand...


Interestingly enough this brings to mind a quote I once heard...

"Music is one of the basic nessecities of life... not a perk... a need"

If that weren't true then explain how music (in one form or another) has existed ever since the first of mankind could walk?

Not cause we want it... it's a part of us and we're a part of it... now contemplate the navel and meditate upon this truth so....

ouuuuuuuuwwwwwwwmmmmmmmmmmm.........

(Pass the bong man....)

- Tanlith -
 
pashop said:
would you buy a CD from these guys
Click to expand...

Depends on what they sound like....


... never before did the words to a song ever ring more true than "Video Killed The Radio Star"

(Pass the freakin bong already... dammit)

- Tanlith -
 
No trumpage.

Good marketing does not always trump good music. It is possible to make money from crappy music with lots of marketing muscle, but good music will often win in the long run.
It's easy to get discouraged because there is so much crap out there that is making money. But that doesn't mean that good music doesn't make money. The crap that's making money right now won't be making money for long. Crap isn't long-lived. Good music is.

It's still easier to make money with good music than with bad...especially on the Indie level. There are countless artists who make good music and a living to boot.
If you play a show at the local coffeeshop and your music is good, people will buy your cd - if it's crap they won't. I know this from experience.

Sure, the mainstream music is mostly crap, but those mainstream artists really only represent a tiny portion of the folks who are making a living with their music.

There will always be a market for good music.

Tucci
www.locuststreettaxi.com
Ska/Jazz/Folk-Rock
with Horns, Harmony & Humor
 
And there's this too....

I read this article at Musicbizacademy.com. It really made me think that we might be better off selling a hundred cds at bars and coffeeshops and keeping the profits than selling 500,000 with a major label anyway. I used to think that if I saw an act on TV that was signed to a major label it meant they were successful and making lots of money.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/story/60991p-57008c.html

Hope that link works.

Tucci
www.locuststreettaxi.com
Horns Harmony & Humor
 
You're right, Tucci. There are a lot of things to consider when one talks about success in the "industry." I still contend that marketing will win out over talent any day in the "mass market" part of the industry. Sensationalist headlines sell more product than quality journalism; Justin Timberlake is probably selling more records than the world-reknowned classical guitarist, John Williams; and more people watch Joe Millionaire than the Discovery Channel (even when Discovery is having something lame like "Shark Week" on :rolleyes: ). It's all about marketing.

However, there ARE opportunities out there when you take into consideration localized markets, and niche markets. Sepultura does pretty well in terms of record sales, even though I can't remember EVER hearing anything by them on the radio. An indie band CAN generate a fan base in their area and sell a fair number of albums. Barenaked Ladies sold over 50, 000 copies of their debut album, mostly in Southern Ontario alone, before they ever got signed.

The example cited in the article intends (and succeeds) to show that famous does not necessarily equal rich. Once everyone is done getting their share of the pie, there may well not be a whole lot left at the end for the artist. I would question, though, why a band would pay a lawyer over $100 000 to get them signed to a deal that ultimately pays them not a whole hell of a lot. Everything in a contract is negotiable, and the cited example really didn't get a great record deal. Their lawyer should have advised them against this (but apparently didn't.... whole other thread there....)

On the other hand, if an indie band sells 30, 000 copies, and nets about $10 per copy after expenses, then they have made $300, 000 dollars!! WAY more than the band in the article. The trick is selling that many copies as an indie band.

Where the value of the record deal comes in is in selling a huge amount of copies simply due to the marketing dollars and networks in place to support it.

It all gets a little foggy when you consider the income generated through radio play (roughly 5 cents for each individual play on each individual station - THAT can quickly add up), which is again where record companies are really necessary in order for those numbers to add up to a lot of money. Then there's tour revenues. Some big-budget tours lose money. Some gross unbelievable amounts of money. An indie band MAY be able to gross more than a label-sponsored touring band, but maybe also a whole lot less. Again, tour income is negotiable in any record deal.

Lots to think about!!

Chris
 
Look................I've been playing for a long freakin' time ( right at 40 years) and I've seen the music biz change. Back when I started, you actually could play your own style and there would be someone who liked it whatever it was. But now it's all cookie-cutter acts chosen to fill specific niches. It's sickening.

However, even back then you had little chance of making big bucks doing it. Some good friends of mine are and were in LaRoux. They had a no.1 and several charting singles. They toured....made 4 or 5 records and are a widely recognized name from that era. I know for a fact that when it was all over...they were in debt. You've got to pay the record company back for that studio time ya' know.

And if it was tough then, it's virtually impossible now. Sorry, but it's the truth. I wish everyone well and good luck but none of you ( or me ) are ever gonna make it big and it doesn't really matter how good you are. That's just the way it is. They pick stars based on their looks and then use the studio to make the music acceptable. If you don't have a tight hard young body, they're never gonna push you.

So............why do I play after all these years and understanding that I'll never be a star? It's 'cause I love it. And ultimately.....that's the only good reason to play. If you're doing it because you think it's a good way to make a living....you need to rethink it and go to college and learn a career.
But I'm driven to do it. It's my art and defines me as a person. I can sit and play to empty clubs or full ones....drunk or sober.....doesn't much matter 'cause I'm really playing to me. Yes; it is more fun when the house is rockin'...and it does feel good when someone compliments me. It is a validation......but more important to me is for the guys on stage, the other players to like what I do. That's my biggest goal......that and pleasing myself which is hard to do sometimes.
Love your music and enjoy it for it's own sake......that's how to keep from getting depressed about your success or lack thereof.
 
Lt. Bob said:
If you don't have a tight hard young body, they're never gonna push you.
Click to expand...

My shirt is tight on my belly...does that count? :D:D

Seriously though...good post.
 
Right on Lt. Bob!

People have a better shot at becoming a pro sports player, than becoming rich and famous as a musician.

Do it because you love it. What other reason can there be? Every guitar player out there, at one time did not know how to play. Good instruments are expensive. It is a terribly akward experience when you first try to play. It hurts your fingers. It takes years of your life, practicing and learning to become competent. You realize that there is always someone that can play better than you. The only sane reason to continue is that it matters to you.

I can't think of a better time than now, however, to make a few bucks at as an indie. The actual costs of making your own indie CD are less than they have ever been. But I'm saying a few bucks at out of the trunk marketing. That's my humble goal.

Chris, how do you see an indie band netting $10 a disk, after expenses? I'd be thrilled with $5.

However, for me anyway, if I had to be out there every night, touring the country, playing the same stuff over and over, I'd be burned out in a hearbeat. I love to practice every day, write songs, learn new things. Just couldn't perform night after night after night.
 
i certainly agree.

it is extremely difficult to make money in the music business. just as any other entrepenuership one can concieve of. what matters is having fun, enjoying yourself. anyone dreaming of fame and fortune is basically chasing a pipedream. if you're willing to sell your soul and whore yourself to the corporate music industry you'll have a slightly better chance at the fame part (the money part is more elusive).

just get a stable job, and do the music thing on the side for expendable income. and if you are good, lucky, etc, then perhaps a more lucrative career will surface.

and that is the end of my story.
 
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