The Order of Recording??????????

[newatthis]

Question for the Pro's (or at least those of you who have done this successfully in the past)

I still consider myself a NewBie in this recording bizness. So I have to ask you,,,,

I have a client (friend of mine from my Church) who is an amazing keyboardist and vocalist. He is pretty shy and timid, but I offered to record his original material for free, to get some additional hands on with recording for my benefit.

Recording is absolutely brand new to him, and we are working on laying down a 9 song CD of his material. The keyboard and vocals tracks we recorded so far sound pretty awsome!!

So,,,we have the "stratch tracks" done and now (with these keyboard and vocals tracks) I was wondering what the next best step should be in the recording process?

Do we burn the scratch tracks onto CD's and hand them out to the other musicians we are going to bring in to laydown their parts??

Is there a "best" order as to who I bring in first, second, third etc etc,,,in what order (Drums, Bass, Guitars etc) to lay their tracks down??

Should we worry about "copywrite protection" before handing out these Scratch CD's ???

I just need some advice from those of you who have done this before.

It would be greatly appreciated!!
Thank you and Peace'
AJ

 

[littledog]

I imagine that eventually your client will want to copyright the songs, so might as well do it sooner rather than later, although I wouldn't delay the project out of fear that other musicians are going to rip off his songs.

As for the rest - it's important to clear up what you mean by "scratch tracks". Usually that means reference tracks that were not recorded with the intention of being used on the final product. What raises the question is your evaluation of how "awesome" they sound.

But let's assume that these are for song-learning purposes only. The next step will depend on how much equipment and what kind of space you have. Ideally, you would want to record at least drums and bass on the first pass with a reference guitar or keyboard and reference vocal. However, if you only have one room in your recording space, you won't be able to do a reference vocal, because it wil bleed into the drum tracks. Electric bass can usually be recorded with a DI, so isolation shouldn't be a problem. But it's good to do bass and drums together, because the way they hook up is going to be the biggest factor in how strong the groove is.

If you are intending to use the keys/vox scratch tracks as keepers, then hopefully it was recorded to click. Otherwise, the drummer will now have to play to the keyboard player's time. That's not impossible, but in most situations drummers have better time than keyboard players, which is one reason why you want to include the drums in the first pass.

If you are adding in things one at a time, the rest of the order doesn't matter all that much. Some vocalists prefer to do their final pass as the very last thing, so they can draw inspiration from the full arangement. Others like to do it earlier in the process.

 

[irishfolker]

Something to bear in mind when he files for the copyright is that he can register copyright on all the songs as a group. This will save bundles of money as the fee is $30. See www.copyright.gov for details.

Jeff

 

[newatthis]

If you are intending to use the keys/vox scratch tracks as keepers, then hopefully it was recorded to click. Otherwise, the drummer will now have to play to the keyboard player's time. That's not impossible, but in most situations drummers have better time than keyboard players, which is one reason why you want to include the drums in the first pass.

Thanks guys. I should have cleared this part up. What I did was have him record (scratch) reference tracks so we could hand them out to the others to hear and learn off of. But after recording them, he basically laid them down flawlessly, the levels are good, and the recording itself sounds very good. So I was hoping to just keep these tracks, and maybe do a couple punch-ins here and there as needed, then go from there. So these (scratch) "reference" tracks turned into possibly keepers.

Also yes I recorded a click track on all the songs. These other musicians have never even heard the tunes yet, so they will have to be learning them when we hand them out.

One pain in the butt I also didnt mention is, I dont have a great Studio set of drums in my studio (I have a small set of new TAMA's), so when drummers record, they bring in their own sets. This guy would like to have 3 different drummers from his Church come in and record on this CD project. I guess what I am envisioning is 3 different drummers, with 3 different sets (brands, tunings, styles, qualities etc). Has anyone ever had to deal with this type situation. I think its a bad idea, but he wanted these guys involved if possible. Recording 3 different drummers with 3 different sets on the same CD seems like its going to be a pain, and make the CD sound weird from song to song>?>?

As far as copywrite, I went to the site and read. Am I to understand that I/we can send a copy of the complete CD with all 9 songs on it, for the one time fee of the $30.00? That would be cool.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Peace
AJ

PS - IRISH (Jeff) Where in Maryland? I live in Carlisle, Pa and I keep my yacht at a slip I own in Middle River, MD right outside Baltimore.

 

[mikeh]

Yes you can send all 9 songs as a combined work for one fee.

Normally people tend to lay the drums down as one of the first tracks so the other players have a solid groove to work with. Some drummers work well with clicks and some don't and it can be even more difficult if the reference track is not solid. Another consideration is - can you get enough isolation to record more than one person at a time (to get a better "band groove". As an example, recording bass guitar direct with the drums can allow the drummer and bass player to lock in to a groove.

Regarding 3 different drummers with 3 seperate kits - the upside is you will have a more varied sound and certainly most drummers play better on thier own kit. The down side is trying to get a good drum sound 3 times (in particular if all the kits are not decent. If you are doing this to gain experiance - you certainly will get that.

If I were you, I would try to make the primary artist understand how difficult getting drum sound are and how much time and effort it will take to mic up 3 seperate kits. Explain that while you are being generous in offering to record him for free, expecting you to commit that much time and effort is unreasonable and an abuse of your generosity. Not to mention the more gear hauled in an out posses more risk our your place getting damaged

Perhaps the 3 drummers can get together determin who has the best gear and agree to use one kit. Perhaps it can be a combination (maybe one guy has the best drums and another guy has the best cymbals).

You don't list how many mics you can commit, etc (and I don't really care) but that too will effect your ability to record drums. If you have 3 mics and a guy shows up with a 10 piece kit, you will have a challenge getting an even sound.

Good luck - sounds like you have plenty of work ahead of you (which should equate to plenty of experiance)

 

[irishfolker]

As far as copywrite, I went to the site and read. Am I to understand that I/we can send a copy of the complete CD with all 9 songs on it, for the one time fee of the $30.00? That would be cool.

Sending in a copy of the CD will protect the recording. To protect the songs themselves, you send in a written copy (lyrics and a notated melody line are sufficient) and use a different form. So to cover everything would cost $60.

PS - IRISH (Jeff) Where in Maryland? I live in Carlisle, Pa and I keep my yacht at a slip I own in Middle River, MD right outside Baltimore.

I'm in Columbia, right off Rt. 29. What sort of music do you do?

Jeff

 

[newatthis]

My band FUSED plays cover rock. We are in the midst of re-forming since we lost our guitarist and vocalist due to their 2 hour drive one way to practice each week got old.

We picked up one of the past members from the band FUEL and are back getting the show together. (playing out Blink 182, Linkin Park, Good Charlotte, all that bar party rock stuff)

I also play (keyboards) in a Christian Rock Band as well. We do all 12 Stones, POD, Pillar, Switchfoot, Kutless etc type cover rock tunes.

As far as recording, I'll record about anything to keep the Studio running, and keep my hands pushing faders and buttons.

I am not sure how far Columbia is from Essex???

Thanks to all of you for the input. It will come in handy as this all unfolds.

Peace
AJ

 

[littledog]

One pain in the butt I also didnt mention is, I dont have a great Studio set of drums in my studio (I have a small set of new TAMA's), so when drummers record, they bring in their own sets. This guy would like to have 3 different drummers from his Church come in and record on this CD project. I guess what I am envisioning is 3 different drummers, with 3 different sets (brands, tunings, styles, qualities etc). Has anyone ever had to deal with this type situation. I think its a bad idea, but he wanted these guys involved if possible. Recording 3 different drummers with 3 different sets on the same CD seems like its going to be a pain, and make the CD sound weird from song to song>?>?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having three different drummers/drum kits on the same CD. It means more work for the engineer, setting up and mic'ing three seperate kits, but if that's how the artist wants to do it and you are getting paid by the hour, then there's not really a problem.

On the other hand, if you gave the client a flat rate or package quote for the whole project thinking you were only going to set up drums once, then it's perfectly fair and reasonable to ask for some more money.