The next step....I think

T

theletterq

New member
Ok I hate questions like this but I would really like some opinions on this. I'm not asking a "Just shut up and tell me what to do" question...just a little advice is all.

I've got $400-500 to spend.

My current setup involves a Fostex VF160, Art Toob MP, CAD M37 (circuit board says M177), a pair of MXL 603's, and various drum mics (SM57, etc).

I'm recording mostly acoustic guitar, bass, drums and vocals, but eventually get around to recording alot of everything (70's type rock among other things).

After hearing the various preamp tests, I'm a little confused. What it comes down to is I can get the RNP or I can get a DMP3 AND a C1 for less. If I get the RNP, I eventually want to add the C1 and some other stuff later. I need to start getting some results here pretty soon, so please some opinions on which would be welcome. Thanks in advance....

Let me mention that I'm looking at two channel pre's right now to use for drum overheads, stereo acoustic, and of course an improvement over the Art.
 
buy the best cry once, i usually go by.

I think the RNP would make a lot of sense for 70s type rock.

Lots of other good mics...I'm not knocking the C1, I have one and love it...but lately I have started to notice how "up front" the sound is (and "hyped" a bit)...which is cool, but i used to do a lot of tracks with the C1 - now I'd save it for like 1 or 2 per song.

At this point it might not be the first LD Condensor I'd buy, but it depends on what you need.
 
Well I record a lot of vocalists that I would describe as "less than stellar". I was hoping that the hyped C1 could help with this. I'm not saying they're bad persay....just not astounding.
 
I have the C1 and you need to warm it up a bit because it is a little too crisp with the DMP3. The same would be true of the RNP except it would be a little warmer but the highs would remain a little harsh. Remember the C1 is already pushed up in the highs as is the RNP so you could go off the deep end with this combo. You can compensate however, with compression, and it would smooth it out.

You might also try one of the following:

VTB-1 because it has a tube (Vocals might be a little flat in the mix so you will need to EQ to punch it up.

Art tube - not the highest quality but will give you a nice warm sound with the C1.

Focusrite Voicemaster warmer still and very clear. Class A. I have tried this and it is very good sounding, especially if you tie in the RNC for compression. These can be had for around $275 (voicemaster not RNC)
Drawmer MX60 if you can find one. Class A. I know of one person who loves this with the C1. I saw one for $350 on ebay.

Or......

You could pick up the DMP3 and the RODE NTK which is a tube mic and come at it from another direction. Most DMP3s used are around $100 on ebay and a new NTK can be had for around $388 there too. This might be a very nice sound too. I will be playing with this one later next week.
 
I guess I should say that my "main" focus right now is the two channel pre, but if I could get some sort of other combo, that would be cool too (of course). Great suggestions though....I'm soaking it all up...

:)
 
I just got a little question about this matter.

I'm a guitarist and I kind of like the Class A guitar amplifiers better then the AB amps, the sound is faster, more "in your face". They tend to have a better response which makes it more fun to play with.

So my question is: Do those characteristics even assert to a mic pre, in such case I would prefer a Class A pre.

Take a look at the SPL Goldmike at, www.soundperformancelab.com/GoldMike/in_short.html

:cool:
 
Well, flames, I like class A preamps too, but a 2 channel class A is not really close to letter's budget. For recording vocalists who are not the greatest, I like good dynamics like Shure SM7/SM7B, or darker condensers, like Oktava MK319 and AKG Solidtube. The crisp detail of a combo like RNP/C-1 would be perfect for a vocalist that's really good, but if they suck, it will suck. I would go to GC and try to drive a deal on an SM7-B. They sold me mine for $325 with some haggling. Then get M Audio DMP3. The combo can be had for right around your $500 mark. The SM7 will be good for a lot of other things, too. For one channel, I agree that VTB-1 would be a good choice. For 2 cheap channels, the new kid on the block is Behringer ultragain. People that have heard it (not me) have been very impressed, but Behringer has some convincing to do to get anybody to believe they have built a usable, reliable, cheap studio mic pre. Best of luck.-Richie

P.S.- I was just thinking- GC is blowing out Oktava MK319's for $99. If you listen to a few, you can probably find a good one. Then add 2 VTB1's. You get your 2 channels with DI, and a completely different vocal option, for well under $500, and I think your 2 channels will beat a DMP-3, the Behringer, or any other cheap 2 channel pre.
 
Well, if you're dealing with vocalists who aren't very good, then honestly, you'd probably be better off focusing on upgrading your effects before upgrading the mic and that goes double for the pre. Antares Autotune might be a good place to start. :D

Seriously, though, I was once told by a fairly notable engineer that if you want to "make a mouse's voice sound like a man's," then you need good tube gear. In a way, I guess he was sort of right. The right tube mic and/or preamp can sound flattering and sometimes downright cool, even if the voice is less-than-stellar.

And I'm not talking about the kind of tubes in the ART / dbx / etc. category. I'm thinking, at the very least, a Rode NTK and/or a Peavey VMP2 tube pre. On the right voice and right style of music, the Joemeek can add a certain flavor, as well.

The only problem is that if the person's voice is already good, then they don't need the added color . . . and if they suck, it's going to sound shitty anyway, so why bother? :D :D
 
Ok, so it looks like I'll have to get 2 preamps - one detailed two channel for overheads and acoustic, and one good tube to mask vocals. :D

It looks I'll be going for the pre first (as drums and guitars are more of the priority right now) and keep with the Art now for vocals. I'm sure the Art would mellow and darken and muddy up the C1 (this isn't for sure...good be an MXL 67) good enough for now. :D

So now it's just pretty much down to the DMP3 or RNP. :)

By the way, the M37 isn't a bad mic, just not well suited for vocals. Works great on guitar amps.
 
theletterq said:
By the way, the M37 isn't a bad mic, just not well suited for vocals. Works great on guitar amps.
Click to expand...

I like mine a lot . . . I have the multipattern one, and I think it's a steal for the money. It's much more on the neutral side . . . doesn't have the high-end hype you hear on something like the C1.
 
Richard Monroe said:
(snip)
P.S.- I was just thinking- GC is blowing out Oktava MK319's for $99. If you listen to a few, you can probably find a good one. Then add 2 VTB1's. You get your 2 channels with DI, and a completely different vocal option, for well under $500, and I think your 2 channels will beat a DMP-3, the Behringer, or any other cheap 2 channel pre.
Click to expand...
It this is a nice mellow mic, for the price I'd like to check it out. The question is, how in the hell are you able to 'pick a good one' while at GC? I've done the 'pay for all of them, with the understanding that all but one is comming back' route at few dealers. What do you do? Buy a six-pack?:)
hmm...
 
Kind of off the subject and better suited to the Mic forum but I have doubts about the C1 after hearing the listening sessions. I compared the C1, B3 and TB1 on the male vocal:

C1 - Harsh and brittle sounding. Maybe just not suited to the guys voice?

B3 - Best sound out of all of them. The most natural and "pleasing".

TB1 - Flat and dull. Made me want to reach for the reverb and eq.

I'm thinking I may just go for a DMP3 and a B3. This gives me a good multi pattern LD instead of the one trick pony C1.

Chessrock do you think the B3 would be redundant alongside the M37 (multi-patterns aside)?
 
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