The New Tone Thread

Lt. Bob said:
hey man!! ALL are welcome here and we're delighted to have ya'.

Ummmmm I'm kinda the Mesa guy here somewhat in contrast to the Marshall love that's so evident.
It's not that I don't like Marshalls ..... I mean, good lord ..... just listen to that awesome clip greg just posted ....... that's a killer sound.
Might be the very best sound that's been posted in this thread.

But for what I do (grub for money doing anything that will get me paid) I need serious versatility and for that I don't think there's anything better than my Mesa Mark V .......
I use a single 12 combo but they do make it in a head version that you can run into a 4x12.

And Mesa is known for its' hi-gain sounds so it would be perfect for the metal-heads ....... but it can get a lot of other sounds so it's not locked into hi-gain.

I get a great clean ..... great classic rock sounds.... funk ..... you name it ..... it gets it.
For a studio I think it'd be the shit.

Check it out ....... LOTS of different tonez and even though it looks complex it's really not ..... I had it fully under control in minutes because it's laid out so sensibly.
3 channels ...... 9 modes ...... 10/45/90 watts ...... can run on 6l6s (what I choose) or el34 ...... solid state OR tube rectifier ....... got a dedicated scooped-mid EQ or a regular graphic EQ for each channnel ...... it's really a great amp and Mesas are super reliable.

I love the little bastard and, in case this matters, it's not cheap either ....... :D

I love mine ...... were I to win the lottery I'd get another.

ONLY drawback I could see would be some of your 'artists' might have trouble dialing it in ...... you'd have to do that while with the Marshalls there's not so many options so perhaps for Billy Beat-off something with only 6 knobs might be preferable.













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This is true. The Mesa Mark V is very versatile, and Mesas do Fender-ish clean sounds better than a Marshall if that's a concern.

It's very expensive though and it's layout will without a doubt confuse and confound some guitar joe that's never played with one. A guy can waste a lot of time fiddling with the Mark V.
 
Lt. Bob said:
In other news I have a gig this afternoon that calls for my Ampeg V2!

YAY!! I get to rock out with my cock out!

:D
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That's some bad ass shit. So are those things actually bass heads that people just have decided to use for guitar? I know you like pristine cleans, but how much breakup can you get with it?
 
Setting a Marshall for great tone is easy.
Just drag your index finger across the top of every knob...turn them all as high as they will go.
Everything wide open.
 
jimistone said:
Setting a Marshall for great tone is easy.
Just drag your index finger across the top of every...turn them all as high as they will go.
Everything wide open.
Click to expand...

That actually works for the non master volume amps. The tone stack is different on the Lead/Super Leads. It's like tone stack then gain. You can dime the tone controls and it sounds fucking awesome.

That doesn't work so well with the master volume amps. The tone controls come after the gain stages, so they filter after the fact. They need to be used more sensibly.
 
Jimmy: Greg's right about your cab dude, a big, all tube head would probably overpower those speakers if you cranked it....It might sound ok with low to moderate volume, but the cab is small compared to regular 4x12's, & might not either....Let us know what you decide dude, I'd love to hear some clips from your studio....

Ok, here's a couple clips of both my amps, I dialed the Chupacabra in for a low-ish gain tone, kinda like Greg posted last, using the 4x12 today....The volume wasn't dimed at all, just a decent level without rattling the windows...I tried to dial the DSL in as close as I could to the Chupa, but it's a very different amp to say the least...The DSL works great for modern-ish sounds, while the Chupacabra can do those too, but it sounds way more vintage to me....

Chupacabra 10-18-2014

Signal chain: LP > Chupa > 4x12 (T-75's) > '57
Resonance: 8
Presence: 6
Bass: 8
Mid: 4
Treble: 5
Volume: 2
Gain 2: 1.5 - 2
Gain 1: 4 (pulled out engaging the "focus")
Era: 80's
Bright 2: R
Bright 1: L


DSL 10-18-2014

Signal chain: LP > DSL > 4x12 (T-75's) > '57
50w mode
Resonance: 5
Presence: 8
Bass: 10
Mid: 5
Treble: 8
OD 1
Volume: 2
Gain: 1.5 - 2 (just enough gain for a good signal)

I wasn't really going for any particular sound, maybe just a low-ish gain like the Gerg posted up...

After listening to these clips, I probably should've gave the DSL a little more gain, & it might've been a little closer, but really, I was just fuckin' around as usual...The mic placement probably could've been a little better, but it is the exact same for both clips, I just switched amps...

I think I'm good to go on these Marshall toans guys, I could use the DSL on one side, & the Chupa on the other for my ryhythm guitars, & I think it'd work pretty good...Really happy with the Chupacabra amp though, it's way more versatile than I thought it'd be....The DSL is good too, but not like the Ceriatone, to me, it's not even close...

Lemme know what you guys think of these shitty clips....:D.
 
Dude, this might burst your bubble a little, and I'm sorry, but the DSL clip sounds much better to me between those two. :eek:

The Chupa clip sounds empty and thin like all of the mids are gone. I think that tone would virtually disappear in a mix. The DSL clip is much more balanced out to me.
 
Yeah I know dude, ain't no biggie....LOL....I had both the bright switches engaged on the Chupa, & it's just too much...It makes it really bright & thin, kinda like the #36 mod (or whatever the fuck that is Slash's amp has)...I was just fucking around with 'em really dude...

I'm still learning (actually trying to remember...hahaha) what the switches to to the circuit/tone on the Chupa, but I have learned that I don't really like the tones with 'em both engaged....Again, I was just fucking around....

I'll post another couple clips of just the Chupa in a few minutes, actually cranked up in all 3 modes (plexi, 80's, modern)...So, there's your warning...LOL...
 
Slash's #36 is more like your DSL clip. It's very middy. It's not ballsy, it's not bright, it's just middy. Listen to AFD, there's not a weak tone on that album anywhere. I mean, it's subjective of course, but that album to this day is highly regarded for it's guitar sounds. There's certainly no scooped mids on it.

I know you're still learning that amp, and it seems tricky. All those switches and options and how this switch affects this, and that switch cuts the output in this and that mode, it had my head spinning. And I thought the fucking JVM and Mesa Mark V was complicated. :D

I'd suggest you start from scratch. Ground zero. The amp's most basic stock standard configuration. What would that be? Plexi clone? Start again there. The first tones you posted when you got that amp were the best. Since then I think they've gotten progressively thinner and less juicy. Lol. Juicy. I'm claiming that one.

I'm thinking you need more volume.
 
The #36 thing I was referring to wasn't on the album, the only thing I've got to refrence it by is Amplitube 3's Slash sim...:facepalm:.I know, I know...But switching the #36 thing in on that sim makes it sound thin, & the Chupa does that too when you engage the bright 1 switch...

And, just so you know, AFD is one of my all-time favorite albums dude....I saw them live my senior year in high school a few months before AFD hit big, & nobody knew who they were, they were the opening act for that show....By the time I graduated the next spring, they were the shizzle....LOL...But yeah, AFD has some super great guitar tones on it man....

Still working on the clips, full volume, but I'm having to adjust the gain because it's squealing with feedback like crazy....Gimme a little while & I'll post 'em up....

Thanks for the compliment on my first few toans with the Chupa, the last little while I've really just been fucking around to see what all it can do....

Clips to come in a little while dude...
 
I think AFD was recorded with SIR #36, which was a Tim Caswell modded JMP metal face 1959 Super Tremolo which has since vanished forever.


I personally don't go crazy for Slash tones. I really like his playing, but it's just a guy playing a Les Paul and a Marshall to me. There's nothing particularly unique or special about his sound besides that he's just a pretty cool player.
 
Just realized something about the new amp....all the dials go to "11"....LOL...seriously, they do....hahaha

Ok, here's some more clips, I opened the amp up on a couple of these, but didn't capture what it really sounds like with the mic/daw...Shitty mic placement is my fault, but it does give you an idea of how the switches affect the tone....


Signal chain: LP > Chupa > 4x12 (T-75's) > '57
Resonance: 6
Presence: 8
Bass: 9
Mid: 4.5
Treble: 9
Volume: 3
Gain 2: 2
Gain 1: 6 (focus engaged/pulled out)
Era: 80's
Bright 2: L
Bright 1: C

80's mode bright 1 L

80's mode bright 1 R

80's mode bright 1 R focus on


LP > Chupa > 4x12 (T-75's) > '57
Resonance: 0
Presence: 9
Bass: 2
Mid: 4.5
Treble: 9
Volume: 10
Gain 2: 5
Gain 1: 5
Era: plexi
Bright 2: C
Bright 1: C

cranked plexi mode

cranked plexi mode bright 1 L

cranked plexi mode bright 1 R

I did have to adjust/lower the gain on these cranked clips, the feedback was killing me as I was literally sitting in front of the amp/cab....As I've mentioned before, this amp has more gain than I'd ever need, just finiding what works for me is gonna take a little while longer....

To me, the medium volume clips sound much better than the fully cranked ones do, could be the mic placement, but it's the exact same position for all these clips...I think a different speaker will help too, as the T-75's are good, but maybe a Greenback or V30 might be a little better for it....I dunno, but I'm still diggin' the amp....It sounds great to me, just capturing what I hear in the room in the daw is what I need to do....

Lemme know what you guys think....
 
Okay those all sound better than that last one.

To me, IMO, the 80s mode clips sound pretty good but they're way bright. But I see you have the presence and treb jacked way up, so that would casue it. The 80s mode "focus on" clip is the worst to me. That focus feature seems to focus the balls right out of the tone.

Ah, and then we got some volume. To me, the first one is a little harsh. It does kind of sound like what a channel jumped and truly all-knobs-cranked Plexi sounds like. A cranked Plexi is a wonderful thing, but add in the jumpered "normal" volume and it can get mushy and fizzy when cranked. The cranked "bright" clips are the best of the bunch to me, and the "cranked bright 1 R" is the most like a real Plexi IMO.

Nice stuff overall.

I don't think the G12T-75 is doing you any favors for sounds like this. It's not bad at all, but the V30 or Greenback both have way better midrange.
 
Thanks dude,
The focus knob does suck the balls out of the tone, it's supposed to reduce low end (which it does), reduce saturation (which it does, it lowers the overall gain), increases the mids (combined with the low end gone makes it brighter), & is supposed to accentuate the pick attack...I'm sure it's doing everything the manual says, but like you said, it takes the "oomph" out of the sound....Maybe with a lower presence/treble & higher bass/resonance it might do ok, but most likely, I'll leave this switch off....It's a push/pull on the Gain 1 knob btw...

And yes, the T-75's are a little too scooped sounding for what I'm after right now, so some more tweaking/testing/playing/recording is gonna have to be done with the Greenback & V30....I'm actually working on a clip with the V30 as I type this....

Something's up with my '57 mic too....Dunno why, but when I use it in the ISO cab, it's got a rattle, but only with the lid closed, which has got me baffled. I can open it up, & it's gone....I don't think it's the ISO cab because I've tried it with other mics (lid open & closed), & the rattle's not there....I did check the mic out as much as I can without taking it apart, & it seems ok, so I'm stumped on this one..:confused:.I've spent an hour to an hour & 1/2 trying to figure out what's going on with it...Any thoughts/ideas on what it could be???

I'll post another clip or two in a few minutes, I've got the broken-in V30 (that I got from the Gerg) in the ISO cab right now, & I'm playing around with the settings on the amp....

Thanks again more clips on the way....
 
Ok, here's a clip of the V30 in the ISO cab....I really need to get another cab, or do like you mentioned, load a different speaker in each slot of my 4x12. That would probably work pretty damn good, & I'd have all of 'em in one spot, just put the mic on whichever, or use 2 mics/2 different speakers for a blend....I may end up doing that, dunno...

Anyway, here's the clip:

V30 Chupacabra

LP > Chupa > V30 ISO cab > C1 condensor

Resonance: 3
Presence: 5.5
Bass: 6
Mid: 5.5
Treble: 5
Master Vol: 2
Gain 2: 5
Gain 1: 8
Era: plexi
Bright 2: L
Bright 1: C

This is waaaay mid-heavy than the other clips, & the high end isn't as brittle/bright....To me, it sounds pretty good, but to be honest, my ears are fucked for the day as I've been playing through this amp about all day long, so it's probably time to shut it off....hahaha

Lemme know what you think of this clip, it's the V30 I got from you a while back Greg, so I know it's broken in really well....
 
Yeah that goes the other way compared to your other clips - super midrangey. I actually like it, it's thick as hell, but it is a little overboard and there's a hint of fizz creeping in there. I like the tamed high end. I think this would work better with a different mic and some positioning tweaks.

I have no idea what could be up with your 57. Does it rattle when you use it on the 4x12 cab? Maybe it has something to do with how it hangs upside down in the iso box. Maybe it's weight is too much for the internal boom arm or isn't enough to keep it loaded up and not rattling. I have no idea, just guesses.
 
Thanks dude,
After listening to this again today, I'm not diggin' the last clip I posted very much....It's thick, but it's got no high end at all....I know all my other clips have been super bright, but this one is completely backwards...LOL...I'm gonna do some tweaking on the mic position, & turn the mids down on the amp to see if I can get it to sound any better....

On my '57, it only does it in the ISO cab, that's what's got me stumped. I do have some more things I can try in it (like a different base for the boom arm, a couple short goosenecks, etc.), but it's weird as hell. I don't think it's the ISO cab itself or the condensor would've picked it up on the last clip....This'll drive me nuts until I figure it out....hahaha

Thanks again dude...
 
Ok....tried a piece of tape on the '57...& so far so good....can't figure why it just started doing this....I haven't dropped it, & I try to take pretty good care of my gear...

And, here's another clip of the Chupacabra, with the Greenback speaker this time...Might be be, but I'm not too fond of the V30 with that amp guys...I guess I could dial the mids out, & it might be the ISO cab, but it's too mid-heavy for me....

And instead of typing out all the settings, fuck it, I just took a couple pics with my phone, but the signal chain is:

LP > Chupa > Greenback ISO cab > '57

Greenback Chupacabra


Chupa gain settings greenback clip 10-19-2014.webpChupa tone settings greenback clip 10-19-2014.webp

See, the knobs/dials really do go to "11"....:laughings:..Lemme know what you guys think.....
 
I think that sounds pretty good. To me it it's back to being a little empty in the mids, but it's good anyway. I think you need to start trying to work some of these new tones into a mix. While this guitar sample sounds good on it's own, see if it can punch through a full mix.

I also think you need to give the V30 more work, but you wouldn't be alone if you really end up not liking the V30 with Plexi style sounds. Lots of people feel the same way.

Another thing to try.....if that amp's tone stack is the same as a real 1987/1959 circuit, then you could try cutting the lows and diming the mids. Lots of people go that route when they've got the channel volumes dialed up on Super Leads, and it works. The tone controls are very interactive on real Super Leads, meaning wherever you set one control affects how the others react as well. Dimed bass throws the mids all out of whack, and so on. Try some crazy combinations. Try diming everything but reducing the gain. It works on Super Leads, see how it works on that thing.
 
Greg_L said:
That's some bad ass shit. So are those things actually bass heads that people just have decided to use for guitar? I know you like pristine cleans, but how much breakup can you get with it?
Click to expand...
not much .... and to get even that it has to be freakin' LOUD!!

I do think the Ampegs are louder than an equivalent Marshall.
I took the V2 head over to a friends house a few months ago and we ran it into a 4x12 Marshall cab ....... he played it a while .... turned it up ..... played some more ..... turned it up ..... maybe got about halfway up and started laughing ...... he stopped and said, "That thing's stupid loud!" :D

Though I've always said I like a pristine clean ( something I seem to be moving away from actually) the Ampegs are more of a 'tweed' sort of clean where you get a slight bit of dirt when you bear down on the strings.
But for any real distortion you have to use a pedal.

I love the Ampegs actually ....... they have the best tone controls ever which were way advanced for the late 60's when they were designed.
On my Ampegs I still use the 7027a power tubes which, though they're just a beefed up 6L6, I think they have their own sound which I like a lot.

They are amazing sounding amps ...... a full rich sound that's just inspiring to play.
I'd still be using them as my main amps if they weren't so heavy.

Even the V2 head alone weighs around 50 pounds and my VT40 combo (their equivalent of the Super Reverb with 4x10s and 60 watts) weighs 95lbs and the VT22 (their version of a Twin ..... 2x12 and 120 watts ) weighs 105lbs! :eek:

As for whether they're just bass amps or not ..... I dunno.
They're definitely not bass amps people just chose to use for guitar .... they were absolutely sold as guitar amps with slightly different model numbers than the bass amps.
But the tone control set-up on my Ampegs is exactly the same as the V4B head and exactly the same as the SVT so maybe they're the same amps inside.

My understanding is that Mr Ampeg designer was old school and in the 60s that meant he thought distortion was an amp-fault and designed these to stay clean even wide open and damned if they don't basically do that.
 
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