The Neve Portico Tape-Emulator

[Dr ZEE]

Why does everyone always say Tascam sucks and it is unprofessional ...!!

not everyone does

... who cares whether or not 13 year old girls can dig your recordings? !!

The Guys who make recordings for 13 year old girls do care.

How smooth and polished does something have to be?!!

as smooth and polished as it gets.

I cant wait until i get old ...!!

no worry. you'll get there sooner than you were expecting.... but then things that matter will not be such anymore .... especially in regards to things to start doing
/respects

 

[cjacek]

Why does everyone always say Tascam sucks and it is unprofessional when i myself have heard 1/2" Tascam recordings not only done by amateurs in the tracking phase, but also mastered by amateurs, sound FUCKING HUGE? I know that youll get a little more polished of a sound from a higher end machine, but who cares whether or not 13 year old girls can dig your recordings? How smooth and polished does something have to be? I cant wait until i get old and rich so i can buy a high end machine and start ripping on everyone elses stuff!!

Not everyone says it. There are some that have their "Lamborghini" and go on and on how a "Porshe sucks". Damn, how "good" must a car be to get you places!?!?!

I'll go on record and say that if you'd take a TASCAM 38 and one of those ungodly pricey Studers or Otaris and had a talented engineer record an album with, the listenning audience would hardly tell a difference. Now, if you took a TASCAM cassette portastudio and even one of those consumer reel decks and compare the same with the former machines, then you'd hear a dramatic difference.

Mind you that this is not about looking (or listenning in this case) at it under a microscope but hearing and enjoying a sound and in this case, a TASCAM 38 (and comparable machines) is approx as good as it gets for most of us, to satisfy our ears.

~Daniel

 

[Dr ZEE]

Quote from THIS page

The Portico™ 5042 Two Channel "True Tape" Emulation and Line Driver unit’s emulation circuit provides the nostalgic rounding and compression usually only achieved by the use of tape. This typically offsets the harshness often found in digital recordings.

Nostalgic? Really? Is this what it's all about? So the device meant to sort of be as a romatic candle holder for sentimental individuals. I din't know that Rupert Neve Designs was in Lounge designs business

... This typically offsets the harshness often found in digital recordings.

What harshness??!!!! I thought Nave's products common users do not get a chance experiencing any harshness of digital recording, as they all have and use only highest quality digital recording hardware/software (Top of The Toop ...that is!). I thought it was only problem for "low-end" digital recording devices user....
I'm totally con-freaking-fuse
*********
Hey, Mr. Nave! Those "low-end" guys would not even dream about ever purchasing/using any of your devices. So who do you address your 'device description' to? Or do you refer to "digital recording" as digital recording regardless of any aspects of it - meaning "digital recording, period". ?
Or maybe it is just the way you "business-wisely" express what other-wise you would express maybe this way:
"Hey guys! I gave up. No matter what you do - digital sucks anyway at the end. It hurts to realize how many valuable time, talented minds, energy and resources were wasted and what we have done to record-industry and to our consumer. We've got so deep into this digital sh*t, so not much (if any) can be done to undo the damage, but at least this is what I can do for those of you who still care about the sound - here's THE DEVICE for you. Take it as a gift of passion. With all the regrets, /yours R.N."


*********

 

[cjacek]

What harshness??!!!! I thought Nave's products common users do not get a chance experiencing any harshness of digital recording, as they all have and use only highest quality digital recording hardware/software (Top of The Toop ...that is!). I thought it was only problem for "low-end" digital recording devices user....
I'm totally con-freaking-fuse

The Rupert Neve people / marketing dept MUST be total morons! They pretty much admit DIGITAL sucks. LOL!! What an advert for their company and the digital market! LOL!!!

~Daniel

 

[Seeker of Rock]

This is funny. Tape emulator...a mouse trying to dress up like an elephant so people will think he's an elephant. Funny.

Maybe I should buy one of those Neve things for my recording setup. Oh, that's right, I get the real sound already through an MSR-16...how silly of me. Guess I'll just save my hard-earned $1500 then.

 

[Good Friend]

tascam

I dont know, i listen to alot of records and i dont dig anything new. New production sucks i think. I know thats saying alot, because everyone has their own "opinion" about what is good. But i will say this, i dont like to hear every tiny corpuscle of overtones and string vibrations from 4 overdubbed 1000 dollar 12 string acoustics all playing a bad riff in unison. Totally crystal clear and nothing to be felt or moved by but the super clarity. Thats all i hear in new recordings. Modern music production is mostly overproduction in my mind. I dont understand why everyone wants this. Why does everyone think its so great to hear every tooth in britney spears mouth being brushed by her lips so much so that it sounds like a god damn carls jr commercial where the guy is crunching into his gross ass burger? If thats what high fidelity and production is about i want to be counted out. The best feeling records ive heard in the last 5 years were almost always indie/underground analog recordings made on tascam/otari/teac 1/2" 8 tracks. I am even sick of all that Nigel Godrich style production that people were digging a few years back. Its kinda aging bad i think. You know, where you cruise in with digital filters and weird audio imaging effects and make the music sound like a computer produced it. That shit stinks.

 

[Dr ZEE]

I get the real sound already through an MSR-16...how silly of me. Guess I'll just save my hard-earned $1500 then.

Not dressing-up someting as msr-16 actuallt saves you hard-earned $12,000
ooooops, I forgot, plus $$$$ for 'not-sold sepatately' VERTICAL RACK KIT ....

 

[Dr ZEE]

Why does everyone think its so great to hear every tooth in britney spears mouth being brushed by her lips so much so that it sounds like a god damn carls jr commercial where the guy is crunching into his gross ass burger?.

ROFL!
heh heh ... Now, I'd say NOBODY except the "ingenious" producer on Pro-Tools himself thinks it's great. The 'producer' would say: "WOW! Check this out! I take sound-clips of bad breath and chewing habit and make it as part of catchy groove! COOL!"
There is nothing more annoying and irritating than DSP-treated rhythmic groove of bad breath and chewing habit.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

One recent production I am fond of is the Los Lonely Boys album. Don't know the recording setup whether it was tracked on tape or hard drive, but the band is fantastic and I like the overall sound of production.
As for TASCAM 1/2" machines, I still can't get over how "big and boomy" my MSR sounds. Cost, tape width, what size studios use these, and all other technical bullshit aside, the sound is incredible. All of the other stuff is really irrelevant, maybe with the exception of physically performance and reliability. That aside, the only thing that counts is sound, and the TASCAM machines I have heard sound incredible. I plan to do final recordings of my material on this and eventually press it. No reservations about the quality whatsoever. And no tape imitator needed to get it. Just some outboard gear items to effect the tracks and a decent board.

 

[mixmkr]

Are you speaking of the Tascam TSR-8 and 38? Please elaborate about what you’ve experienced while using them.

I have found that the s/n ratio pretty much required the use of some sort of noise reduction.

I have also experienced the popular dbx units to really smear the bass image and levels.

Having bought those machines new (and others), I find that an inexpensive card (such as an Echo Layla) into an inexpensive PC yield far better results..both in accuracy as far as what goes in VS what comes out, and much cleaner sounding in many different aspects.

Those were/are GREAT machines. Do not get me wrong. The fact that I have paid close to 10 grand for Tascam machines over my recording years backs that statement up in my book.

HOWEVER, I have recorded A LOT on MCI/Sony, Ampex, Studer, Scully, Otari ... "wide" format machines, and never found the need for noise reduction. The bass was 'in your face', so to speak. I actually think I do probably like it better than "consumer" home digital stuff. But the size, maintanance, tape costs, harder to edit, etc, etc has kept me from getting a nice used 2" machine. I can hear a HUGE difference between those machines VS the Tascam stuff I used at home. That said, the better 1/2 track machines from Tascam are pretty decent and actually rival the 1/4" format machines that were more costly. But the 22-2 "budget" model barely squeeked out specks better than a cassette deck. Just gave you the "format" so to speak, so you could inexpensively give radio stations THAT format, when it was required...and actually worked out ok FOR RADIO playback..... The Revox decks were a good step up without getting into those larger "washing machine" sized 1/2 tracks.

Believe me, I probably would get a used Studer and a killer old analog console(the console I have had in the past), but currently a computer works just fine for me now. Selling my 400lb console back in the 80's was a chore... something I remember when I look at those consoles nowadays. ...not to mention a 2" deck.

But...that said....I visited Primal Gear in Nashville just a week ago, and lusted at a nice Otari Concept console and a VERY NICE MCI 24 track. ....all for less money than an average car. Kinda hard to say no, actually.

 

[Dr ZEE]

But the 22-2 "budget" model barely squeeked out specks better than a cassette deck...

Owch!
here we go again : "budget"=BAD(get)!

 

[Beck]

I have found that the s/n ratio pretty much required the use of some sort of noise reduction.

I have also experienced the popular dbx units to really smear the bass image and levels.

Having bought those machines new (and others), I find that an inexpensive card (such as an Echo Layla) into an inexpensive PC yield far better results..both in accuracy as far as what goes in VS what comes out, and much cleaner sounding in many different aspects.

Those were/are GREAT machines. Do not get me wrong. The fact that I have paid close to 10 grand for Tascam machines over my recording years backs that statement up in my book.

HOWEVER, I have recorded A LOT on MCI/Sony, Ampex, Studer, Scully, Otari ... "wide" format machines, and never found the need for noise reduction. The bass was 'in your face', so to speak. I actually think I do probably like it better than "consumer" home digital stuff. But the size, maintanance, tape costs, harder to edit, etc, etc has kept me from getting a nice used 2" machine. I can hear a HUGE difference between those machines VS the Tascam stuff I used at home. That said, the better 1/2 track machines from Tascam are pretty decent and actually rival the 1/4" format machines that were more costly. But the 22-2 "budget" model barely squeeked out specks better than a cassette deck. Just gave you the "format" so to speak, so you could inexpensively give radio stations THAT format, when it was required...and actually worked out ok FOR RADIO playback..... The Revox decks were a good step up without getting into those larger "washing machine" sized 1/2 tracks.

Believe me, I probably would get a used Studer and a killer old analog console(the console I have had in the past), but currently a computer works just fine for me now. Selling my 400lb console back in the 80's was a chore... something I remember when I look at those consoles nowadays. ...not to mention a 2" deck.

But...that said....I visited Primal Gear in Nashville just a week ago, and lusted at a nice Otari Concept console and a VERY NICE MCI 24 track. ....all for less money than an average car. Kinda hard to say no, actually.

Fair enough, dbx can be less than transparent in some cases. However, I’ve found the onboard dbx Type I on the TSR/MSR to be unusually well integrated into the system; so much so that I’ve never needed to disable it for any material. I actually chose the TSR-8 over the Otari MX5050 8-track, which I had worked with in the past.

The wider format machines definitely have the advantage with S/N. Beyond that though 6 tracks on ½” (24 track) isn’t a lot different than 8 on ½” when just considering the format.

I’ve never considered anything as extravagant as an MCI or Studer 2” for my home studio. That would be overkill for my purposes. ½” maybe even 1” is the sweet spot for me as far as maintenance, tape costs and quality. It would be cool though to have a large format machine sitting in the corner. I just have no desire to lug 2” tape around the house. I had to change a flat tire the other day, which reminded me of that.

Though the Tascam 32 was one of the most prolific half-tracks ever, I’ve always thought the little 22-2 was underrated. It benefits from inexpensive circuit mods, but just increasing the op level makes a difference. Many people are unaware that it’s factory set at only 185 nW/m to be compatible with a broader range of tape. I set the 22-2 using the settings for the 32, and well… you’d just be surprised. You have to enjoy goofing around with electronics though, which I do.

The demise of tape is the worst thing and the best thing at the same time. I can afford stuff that used to be out of the question. But as a consumer the music scene is disappointing. Part of me wants to jealously guard the secrets of tape so my music has an edge against the status quo. But my better angels always win that fight and I am oft heard saying, “If you want to stand out and make people stop, listen and be moved by your art, then put it on tape. After 25 years in music and recording, that’s my standing recommendation -- it may be on my tombstone some day (not anytime soon I hope).

 

[arjoll]

... who cares whether or not 13 year old girls can dig your recordings? !!not everyone does

The Guys who make recordings for 13 year old girls do care.

Those 'recordings' are just ads designed to push ideas at the audience. I'm shocked at some of the crap my 7 year old daughter likes to listen to. At least my 8 year old son is into the likes of Kutless and Detour 180 (and Green Day, but you can't win all the time).

 

[Dr ZEE]

.... if you read the description of the Neve carefully, it describes that is can emulate 7.5 ips or 15 ips. Now, without getting into a total arguement at what speed analog sounds best, professional speed is still 30 ips.

Huh! I think I just "figured it out" As all Nave's products users are Top Profesional Studios producers - they all do have and use 30ips analog tape machines (no needs for a device to emulate that), Yet, apparently (along with digital recording systems) 30ips recording machines may well benefit from using of 7.5 ips /15 ips emulating device, (to make it sound RIGHT, that is )

My point is, this device, this mere emulator, isn't even designed to emulate the "professional" reel to reel machines.

Hey, Top-Pros have to compete with "non"-pros too! So they need some good dedicated tools.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

But...that said....I visited Primal Gear in Nashville just a week ago, and lusted at a nice Otari Concept console and a VERY NICE MCI 24 track. ....all for less money than an average car. Kinda hard to say no, actually.

My tech mentioned MCI as the best route to go if you are looking at 2" console. He said the parts are readily available and the quality is par with Sutder. I didn't get to hear onsite, but saw and checked both out.
Now an engineer friend of mine tells me of the difference in 2" vs. 1" vs. 1/2" and says there are differences for sure, as I myself know. His point was, and I agree, comparing to guitar amps. A 2" "pro" machine to a 1/2" TASCAM is kind of like a Blackface Super Reverb to a reissue Deluxe Reverb. Differences to the trained ear, but either way you are into a professional sounding amp. Again, what I do have is a good ear. The MSR-16 (mine has the Dolby S) sounds simply divine. I have no reservations in using this to produce and distribute my music, along with a decent board and outboard gear of course. I believe there is a lot of fact and at the same time a lot of urban myth behind the actual differences in sound in some of the good tape machines. In production, I would like to be insprired by older ZZ Top production as opposed to RUSH or Queen, though I love the latter, just a different flavor than what I am going for. My setup will give me that flavor. If at some point I learn enough in audio production and want to explore professional engineering, I think I would still feel comfortable with the TASCAM, though I may explore digital just for the convenience. My own stash, though, will always be on tape, as the sound is that important to me personally.

 

[mixmkr]

Owch!
here we go again : "budget"=BAD(get)!

I appreciate the smiley face!!

but...I believe the 22-2 was the least expensive 1/2 track ever available...thus I guess would qualify it in the "budget-leagues"....


and...

the s/n was pretty bad, you have to admit...
But, like I said earlier, for $700 bucks or so at the time, it was basically an affordable way to "break into" the 1/2 track format, which was at one time the ONLY format a radio station would really take...for jingles, whatever. And on the radio, who cares if the s/n squeaked in just barely over 60dB on the reel to reel. The airwaves covered it all up....not to mention the transmission compression. And yes, I bought one new, rather than spending $7500 for something other than a Tascam product.

And yes...I have a closet full of 1/2 track, Tascam generated tapes ... ...slowly deteriorating away, I must say too

 

[Seeker of Rock]

Have you baked lately? I'm sorry, your tape I meant.

 

[Beck]

The S/N ratio on the 22-2 is respectable 68 dB A-weighted, which is up there with a lot of 1/4" half-tracks. It may be that the original release was slightly lower. I know the heads were upgraded in later models and are the same as the 32 on mine.

Change the 4558 op-amps to 5532 or 4580 and set the flux level for 250 nW/m using Quantegy 407 tape or better -- makes a big difference regardless.

The frequency response is 40 Hz to 22 kHz @ 0 VU when set for 185 nW/m. That comes down to around 20 kHz when set for 250 nW/m, which is what you can expect from an Otari MX5050. Not bad for a 30 lb budget machine built on the X-3 chasis.

It may be the least expensive 1/4" half-track ever made, but I wouldn't compare it with cassette performance -- not in my experience anyway.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

The original question was whether this tape simulator thing could imitate analog. I don't have the experience that a lot of people here have as an engineer, I do have it in recording as a musician. It always seems to revert back to A vs. D, and I don't intend to kindle that, but I am listening to Styx 'Grand Illusion' and hearing the drums. I haven't heard drums like that recently, and maybe it's because it is a digital image of what the true mics are picking up live during recording, or maybe it's overproduction of good engineers as of late due to pressures by "the Man", or maybe a combination thereof. But I tell you honestly, the drums I am hearing, and through a pair of '81 Fisher speakers at that from a CD, sound like I am right there hearing the recording as it is being played. I like that kind of production, and that is subjective I know. If digital can record that kind of presence, than vive digital. But to date I haven't heard it, and doubt I will from a 'tape emulator'.

 

[robin watson]

The Tascam TSR-8 or even the MSR-16 both fit the bill, and at far, far cheaper than the Neve. Check the specs.

-MD

The whole concept of the Neve unit in question is to get you closer to tape sound without all the crap that makes analog tape recording such an expensive and time consuming pain in the ass - now happily bequeathed to the minority of fanatics who are prepared to put up with it.

Meanwhile, the rest of us get on with making music with comparative ease and creative flexibilty, without being hung up on the whole audiophile tape issue, but with something like a Neve Portico to whet the appetite. It may not be all it's made out to be, could be total hype, I dunno, but until those that slam it have heard it, best keep our minds open. There may be hope for the cursed fanatics yet!