hungovermorning
Dr. Caveman.
is transferring your gorgeous 15 ips open reel goodness onto a computer so people can listen to it on their laptop speakers in mp3 form. I for one refuse to give into the smile curve.
The most depressing thing
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The Ghost of FM
Banned
Imagine the horror of technicians back in the 1960's who were running all class A tube gear on wide format open reel recorders pondering the unwashed masses listening to their works of art on transistor AM pocket radios.
The more thing change, the more they stay the same.
Cheers!
The more thing change, the more they stay the same.
Cheers!
jjones1700
Learning, always learning
Imagine the horror of technicians back in the 1960's who were running all class A tube gear on wide format open reel recorders pondering the unwashed masses listening to their works of art on transistor AM pocket radios.
The more thing change, the more they stay the same.
Cheers!
Yep, each decade brings more compression and worse sounding music.
Tim Gillett
Banned
Agree. I was going to make the same point.Imagine the horror of technicians back in the 1960's who were running all class A tube gear on wide format open reel recorders pondering the unwashed masses listening to their works of art on transistor AM pocket radios.
The more thing change, the more they stay the same.
Cheers!
People have always been prepared to trade off strict audio quality for access and portability, and isnt that understandable? The choice between some music and no music is a no brainer.
Cheers Tim
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Hey, what's really terrifying, at least to the people who initially spent BIG BUCKS on studio gear, the 2" Studers, the huge consoles etc...., is knowing that their released stuff (on CD, Radio, MP3) doesn't neccessarily sound better than a guy who had done the same on his 1/4" 8 track or 1/2" 16 track TASCAM, provided that both paries had the skills. And I mean, how many people actually listen straight off tape, beside the folks who recorded the thing in the first place? Hey, I know there are viable reasons for getting really serious, professionally built gear, but still it's a shame, when it all comes down to it, that a used pro 2" 24 track recorder costing $5000 is on equal footing as a semi-pro $500 FOSTEX or TASCAM. Now, if they put the stuff out on carefully pressed vinyl or half track 1/4" open reel then it may be a whole different ballgame but as it stands now...... oh well........ 
EDIT / ADDED:
BTW, the above is not a "shot" at pro gear and the 2" tape recorders etc....., as I would love to have one, one day but is rather the reality, as I see it.
The good news (if you see it that way) is that no matter the gear, as a consequence of the above, we all tend to be judged by the content and skills of the recording. It's not really about pitting one piece of gear vs another. When it all arrives in the form of a CD or MP3, we're all on equal ground, more or less.
EDIT / ADDED:
BTW, the above is not a "shot" at pro gear and the 2" tape recorders etc....., as I would love to have one, one day but is rather the reality, as I see it.
The good news (if you see it that way) is that no matter the gear, as a consequence of the above, we all tend to be judged by the content and skills of the recording. It's not really about pitting one piece of gear vs another. When it all arrives in the form of a CD or MP3, we're all on equal ground, more or less.
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The Ghost of FM
Banned
Hey, what's really terrifying, at least to the people who initially spent BIG BUCKS on studio gear, the 2" Studers, the huge consoles etc...., is knowing that their released stuff (on CD, Radio, MP3) doesn't neccessarily sound better than a guy who had done the same on his 1/4" 8 track or 1/2" 16 track TASCAM, provided that both paries had the skills. And I mean, how many people actually listen straight off tape, beside the folks who recorded the thing in the first place? Hey, I know there are viable reasons for getting really serious, professionally built gear, but still it's a shame, when it all comes down to it, that a used pro 2" 24 track recorder costing $5000 is on equal footing as a semi-pro $500 FOSTEX or TASCAM. Now, if they put the stuff out on carefully pressed vinyl or half track 1/4" open reel then it may be a whole different ballgame but as it stands now...... oh well........
I have to wonder if the people who run/ran professional studios really worried at all about such things in that they had the talent in front and behind the microphones and paying clients to justify the expense. And when it comes to running a professional studio, the gear is but a small cost component of the operation. Buildings, construction costs, staffing and keeping clients coming through the doors are all way bigger fish to fry compared to fretting over what some bozo like me and my tape recorder are up to.
Cheers!
The Ghost of FM
Banned
That's true. Good point, Jeff. It's all business in the end...
Assuming that anyone who bought a 2" 24 track Studer, brand new, back in the day was probably running a working, commercial studio, yes.
Cheers!
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
....speaking of business ..... A few weeks ago I went to a studio which was selling 3 (three) OTARI MTR100A machines, you know, the 2", 24 track 500lb monsters... Anyway, the owner said that he bought them !!new!! and that they "went digital" 'cause there's "no moving parts" and that it's a headache with analog. Well, I didn't want to tutor the guy about the hard drive, as a possible "moving part" and the various issues one must also deal with digital but oh well, what can one do.... Anyway the point is that I was shocked how BADLY the machines were taken care of (if ever). The heads, although relapped, showed non-uniform wear, were not aligned correct, the machines had lots of dust on it, including caked on gunk from tape, were scratched up, had brake problems and were just placed behind a couch. Nevertheless the guy tried to sweet talk me into buying them as they were in "great condition". If I didn't know any better, I might have budged but I just walked away thinking "it's all business to them" and "how can someone have the opportunity to buy such beautiful multiple units, brand new, and trash them like that". It was obvious, as you said Jeff, that the most important thing for people like this is clients, clients, clients. Anyway, no wonder analog was a "headache" for this owner as he had absolutely no clue.
The Ghost of FM
Banned
Well, professional machines are just tools to professional studios so you can't realistically expect these guys to care much about the physical appearance of them the way that others like yourself might see to their upkeep.
Machines are run 24/7 in busier studios and if it is a smaller budget facility, I could easily see them driving them into the ground until they stopped working and then got rid of them as a faster solution to keep production going. When I got my MS-16, it too was someone else's work-horse and showed it, inside and out...it took a lot of TLC, time and money to put it back into fighting condition.
Not every studio is Abbey Road, with Abbey Road's budget and staff to keep things polished and perfect. Anyone buying pro level used machines should have this in mind when they're shopping for this kind of stuff, that being that when a studio sells off their older gear, it's because they've squeezed all the useful life out of it and it's now not financially feasible for them to put the time and money into reconditioning them back into virgins. For them, it's just time to move onto the next tool to keep them working.
Cheers!
Machines are run 24/7 in busier studios and if it is a smaller budget facility, I could easily see them driving them into the ground until they stopped working and then got rid of them as a faster solution to keep production going. When I got my MS-16, it too was someone else's work-horse and showed it, inside and out...it took a lot of TLC, time and money to put it back into fighting condition.
Not every studio is Abbey Road, with Abbey Road's budget and staff to keep things polished and perfect. Anyone buying pro level used machines should have this in mind when they're shopping for this kind of stuff, that being that when a studio sells off their older gear, it's because they've squeezed all the useful life out of it and it's now not financially feasible for them to put the time and money into reconditioning them back into virgins. For them, it's just time to move onto the next tool to keep them working.
Cheers!
jjones1700
Learning, always learning
Well, professional machines are just tools to professional studios so you can't realistically expect these guys to care much about the physical appearance of them the way that others like yourself might see to their upkeep.
Machines are run 24/7 in busier studios and if it is a smaller budget facility, I could easily see them driving them into the ground until they stopped working and then got rid of them as a faster solution to keep production going. When I got my MS-16, it too was someone else's work-horse and showed it, inside and out...it took a lot of TLC, time and money to put it back into fighting condition.
Not every studio is Abbey Road, with Abbey Road's budget and staff to keep things polished and perfect. Anyone buying pro level used machines should have this in mind when they're shopping for this kind of stuff, that being that when a studio sells off their older gear, it's because they've squeezed all the useful life out of it and it's now not financially feasible for them to put the time and money into reconditioning them back into virgins. For them, it's just time to move onto the next tool to keep them working.
Cheers!
You would think a studio, who has spent a large amount of money on this equipment, would realize that setting aside a few hours once a week to clean and maintain the machines would be even more economical. I'm not in that field or environment so I guess I can't really see the logic to buying expendable equipment. How can they expect to make consistently make quality recordings if the machines aren't maintained and drift out of spec as a result? It's a damn shame to see these beautiful pieces of machinery (along with being works of art) abused and disposed of. I guess the only way I will ever see a 2" deck with a console is by photographs.
The Ghost of FM
Banned
You would think a studio, who has spent a large amount of money on this equipment, would realize that setting aside a few hours once a week to clean and maintain the machines would be even more economical. I'm not in that field or environment so I guess I can't really see the logic to buying expendable equipment. How can they expect to make consistently make quality recordings if the machines aren't maintained and drift out of spec as a result? It's a damn shame to see these beautiful pieces of machinery (along with being works of art) abused and disposed of. I guess the only way I will ever see a 2" deck with a console is by photographs.
I agree, a normal regime of maintenance would seem like a perfectly logical and financially sensible thing to do. Then again, many studio owners are less then perfectly logical or sensible. Many studios don't stay in business for long lengths of time either. Many more still look at large format analog machines as a 500 pound albatross hanging from their neck that's expensive to maintain and not as cost effective for their clients to buy tape at over $200 a roll for 30 minutes of recording time, (based on a 2" format). So, a lot of them switched to digital because the gear and recording media was cheaper and because everyone else and their uncle were doing the same thing and keeping up with the Jone's is important in business!
The basic point I'm trying to make is that just because us analog enthusiasts love, honor and value the sonic worth of quality analog, doesn't mean that the rest of the world sees them with the same eyes that we do.
To fortify that point, think of the classic cars that many collectors seek out these days to restore and show off at car conventions. Most of those classics were used by normal folks to go back and forth to work in and to go shopping and after a few years, they'd trade them in and move onto the next one, never thinking for a second that their car, if kept in immaculate condition for 30, 40 or 50 years would become a collector's item and highly sought after for big money...In much the same mindset, studios who bought large format recorders did so to do a job and after a few years, when something newer and more popular came out, they dumped them and moved on, never thinking for a second that these beasts should be immortalized, pruned and fawned over.
Anyway, that's enough babbling out of me for tonight.
Cheers!
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
Yeah, and they blame "analog" in general.
It's a damn shame to see these beautiful pieces of machinery (along with being works of art) abused and disposed of. I guess the only way I will ever see a 2" deck with a console is by photographs.
My thoughts exactly. It seems that the very people who could really appreciate this type of machine, the superb craftsmanship etc.. are the ones only day-dreaming about it, either for the lack of funds, space or just finding a good working example of such. It seems the real pricks get to buy a 60K Studer and of course, they also get the chicks and the nice car!
jjones1700
Learning, always learning
I agree, a normal regime of maintenance would seem like a perfectly logical and financially sensible thing to do. Then again, many studio owners are less then perfectly logical or sensible. Many studios don't stay in business for long lengths of time either. Many more still look at large format analog machines as a 500 pound albatross hanging from their neck that's expensive to maintain and not as cost effective for their clients to buy tape at over $200 a roll for 30 minutes of recording time, (based on a 2" format). So, a lot of them switched to digital because the gear and recording media was cheaper and because everyone else and their uncle were doing the same thing and keeping up with the Jone's is important in business!
The basic point I'm trying to make is that just because us analog enthusiasts love, honor and value the sonic worth of quality analog, doesn't mean that the rest of the world sees them with the same eyes that we do.
To fortify that point, think of the classic cars that many collectors seek out these days to restore and show off at car conventions. Most of those classics were used by normal folks to go back and forth to work in and to go shopping and after a few years, they'd trade them in and move onto the next one, never thinking for a second that their car, if kept in immaculate condition for 30, 40 or 50 years would become a collector's item and highly sought after for big money...In much the same mindset, studios who bought large format recorders did so to do a job and after a few years, when something newer and more popular came out, they dumped them and moved on, never thinking for a second that these beasts should be immortalized, pruned and fawned over.
Anyway, that's enough babbling out of me for tonight.
Cheers!
I can see how the cost of magnetic media is prohibitive in today's market. Wouldn't it be logical to think that if a machine was well taken care of, that you would be able to sell it for a higher price than to have someone haul it off as scrap metal? It's kind of like depreciation on a car. If the car stays in great condition and was well maintained, then the seller can ask more for it than some run-of-the-mill condition car of the same model.
Speaking of older cars, I sure miss my '68 SS396 Chevelle.
I guess the next time I get a chance to have another it will be a '67.The Ghost of FM
Banned
I can see how the cost of magnetic media is prohibitive in today's market. Wouldn't it be logical to think that if a machine was well taken care of, that you would be able to sell it for a higher price than to have someone haul it off as scrap metal? It's kind of like depreciation on a car. If the car stays in great condition and was well maintained, then the seller can ask more for it than some run-of-the-mill condition car of the same model.
Speaking of older cars, I sure miss my '68 SS396 Chevelle.
I don't know how many 2" machines are truly selling for scrap metal prices...probably none really.
Perhaps it just not worth the investment?
Case in point;
I own a TASCAM MS-16 which is a 1" 16 track recorder with the full nr, remote and roll around cabinet options. It originally retailed for close to $20k Canadian, with all it's options. I bought it back in 1996 for $3500.00 in poor shape. I've spent damn close to another $3K in service on it to get it back to 100% full functionality and original factory spec.
If I put it up for sale today on ebay in its current condition, I'd be lucky to get $2K for it and if it was re-sold in the condition I bought it in, I might get $1K for it. Bottom line here is that putting good money in repairs and maintenance is a worse investment the Enron.
Cheers!