The Listening Sessions

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chessrock's grumblings aside :p, it SHOULD be noted that the B1 and B3 are not, and never were intended, for use as a "main vocal mic". this is NOT where they shine, and obviously, this segment of TLS backs that up. so don't view them as "crap mics" b/c they sucked on vocals here.

i've got a number of places where i like my B1.......but vocals are RARELY it.


cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112 said:
...it SHOULD be noted that the B1 and B3 are not, and never were intended, for use as a "main vocal mic". this is NOT where they shine, and obviously, this segment of TLS backs that up. so don't view them as "crap mics" b/c they sucked on vocals here.

i've got a number of places where i like my B1.......but vocals are RARELY it.
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I wouldn't say they are crap. However, when I first started reading this board, numerous people [except DJL] were touting the B1 as the best all-around condenser mic for under $100 (for vocals, guitars, cabs, overheads, etc). I've never used one, but based on those assessments, I've frequently recommended it to people on this board and elsewhere who were looking for their first condenser (it had to be better than my first $100 condenser, the NADY SCM900, right?). If that's what the B1 sounds like on voice (of course on that singer, with that pre, in that room), I may start pushing the MXL990 a little harder in the sub $100 category (I know, chessrock is already on this job like the little purple munchkin he is :D ). Certainly no $100 mic should be the "main vocal mic" in a studio, but imo, a persons first condenser should do a decent job of handling vocal duties (better than a 57, anyway). So, that's why I say I hope it was just a bum mic or a bad recording, because the b1 was the worst out of that group by a significant margin.
 
scrubs said:
If that's what the B1 sounds like on voice (of course on that singer, with that pre, in that room), I may start pushing the MXL990 a little harder in the sub $100 category (I know, chessrock is already on this job like the little purple munchkin he is :D ). Certainly no $100 mic should be the "main vocal mic" in a studio, but imo, a persons first condenser should do a decent job of handling vocal duties (better than a 57, anyway).
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I realize I'm going to go against everything I stand for with this, but ... upon reading what Dot and a few others have mentioned, it kinda' sounds like that particular first-day session should be scrapped. :D Yea, the B mics sound pretty bad, but then it's possible it wasn't a valid test. Who knows?

Now normally, I think Marshall condensers pretty much sound like dog shit. But this ones' actually okay. It's a little thin-sounding; not harsh, but hyped. It does sound good on certain voices and in certain situations, but it's kind of a one-trick pony in most respects. The 603 capsule mics all do this hyper-detailed (or pleasingly bright) thing that works on a duller-sounding or inarticulate source, and that's what it does. It's not a soft mic, or 'warm' as some of you guys like to put it, so don't use it like it is ... or you'll be unhappy.

I mean, if you're sound checking something and no matter what you try, it still just sounds like you need to clean your ears out when you listen back ... then it might be time to pull out the 603's or the 990's or 771's or the 993's ... or the MCA SP-1. :D Anything that has that capsule, basically.

If you want to talk about $100 condensers, you owe it to yourself to try out a CAD M-177. Now, if I was forced to choose a sub-100 condenser for vocals, I'd still throw up an MC-012 and two pop-filters. There's your "best 100-dollar vocal mic," right there, kids. If you're an ebay guy who digs old mics ... then try and find an old Electrovoice RE-15 or 16. These are all very useful and versatile $100 range vocal mics that'll work on most anything.
 
Dracon said:
Anyway, it would be nice to know what monitors, soundcard, signal chain each person used to listen the mp3. I'm sure if we were all in the same room, playing the mp3's we would probably have a very slight variation on our feed back (based on our own hearing capabilities and location in the room).
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Wharfedale 8.2A (direct feed from: )
E-MU 0404
 
you have to understand that the B1 was designed primarily as a swiss-army instrument mic--NOT as a vocal mic. that's been said on this board time and again. anyone who buys a B1 for use as a primary vocal mic is *going* to be disappointed with the results. the C-series was designed more with vocals in mind, and likewise, people who tend to use them on instruments tend to be disappointed with the results.

that's why, for the longest time, people were recommending the V67 as "the best sub $100 vocal LDC". then came the morning after and people weren't so sure about the V67. i think it's got an overall tone, but it's definitely got something "weird" going on in the midrange that i don't like. but i still like the tone.

i've got no experience with the 990, but i do have a pair of 603's. i love the 603's on acoustic guitar, but the brightness is a little on the "annoying" side on a number of sources. i've used them on vocals before and have been less than thrilled. but maybe it's b/c i can't sing for shit and i rely on proximity effect, etc., to help me out.

still, i think that if you're looking for a pair of "cheap", new with warranty, chinese LDCs to handle instruments and vocals for under $200, i think you could do a lot worse than a B1/V67 combo. i also think you could do better, as chessrock has noted, if you go for some "proven" dynamic mics.......but people (and newbies in particular) seem to have woodies for cheap LDCs, so as homer says, whatareyagonnado?

......ymmv.......

cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112 said:
that's why, for the longest time, people were recommending the V67 as "the best sub $100 vocal LDC". then came the morning after and people weren't so sure about the V67. i think it's got an overall tone, but it's definitely got something "weird" going on in the midrange that i don't like. but i still like the tone.

i've got no experience with the 990, but i do have a pair of 603's. i love the 603's on acoustic guitar, but the brightness is a little on the "annoying" side on a number of sources. i've used them on vocals before and have been less than thrilled. but maybe it's b/c i can't sing for shit and i rely on proximity effect, etc., to help me out.

cheers,
wade
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I would recommend the V67G in a heartbeat before I would ever recommend the 990 for Vocals, acoustics, or even overhead. As far as the 990 goes, I've heard they are good on snares but not much else. I've tested the 990 and would not bother getting it, it's just too harsh and too tin sounding. Then again, I also own an E835 and would recommend it before I would ever recommend a SM58/57. So, I don't go with the flow. I just go with what I like, and usually a warmer sound is what I like. For $99 the V67G is a nice little mic. I'm not sure what everyone raves about the 990 for, but apparently there is a market ou there for that mic.
 
<<For $99 the V67G is a nice little mic>>

agreed. i like mine plenty......midrange hashiness aside.

<<As far as the 990 goes, I've heard they are good on snares>>

as is the 603, which between the two of em, i'd FAR rather put on a snare given its size/shape.

<<, I also own an E835 and would recommend it before I would ever recommend a SM58/57>>

i'm the same way, but thing is, people KNOW what an 57/58 sounds like b/c chances are they've used a number of em. the senns require a little leap of faith.


<<I'm not sure what everyone raves about the 990 for, but apparently there is a market ou there for that mic.>>

my guess that market is those people who've got tinnitus, or some other sort of high freq loss that doesn't allow them to hear the high-end harshness countless others have described from the 990. :p


cheers,
wade
 
The 990 is far smoother than 90% of the Chinese crap out there. I wouldn't use on on brass ... nor would I stick it in front of a cymbal and start bashing it, but no, it's not a particularly harsh mic.
 
Dracon said:
I'm not sure what everyone raves about the 990 for, but apparently there is a market ou there for that mic.
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It's cheap and has a nice body build and style, and has a case and a shockmount. It's a good mic for modfication.
 
crazydoc said:
It's a good mic for modfication.
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IMHO its the only thing its good for, 'cause unless you have some high-end hearing loss (which I've met some mixing Engineers who do - due to too much Rock-n-Roll) its way too harsh on the top end.

It may be better than some other crappy chinese mics as Chessrock says, but I disagree without any apologies with that the 990 has no harshness on the top end. I got a hearing test done about 8 months ago (USAF Test for Fighter Pilots), and I scored 0. If you don't know what that means 1 is what most people score, while 0 is the best possible score you can get. Not that I'm bragging, I just haven't done anything to injure my hearing. Hence 0 means I have 0 (zero) hearing loss at 0dB on the entire scale.

Now so you know 0 was my overall score. I scored 0 on the right and 1 on the left because I missed some low tones down in the 40Hz scale of the test. I'm not an expert on mics, but I know what I hear.
 
Dracon said:
IMHO its the only thing its good for, 'cause unless you have some high-end hearing loss (which I've met some mixing Engineers who do - due to too much Rock-n-Roll) its way too harsh on the top end.

It may be better than some other crappy chinese mics as Chessrock says, but I disagree without any apologies with that the 990 has no harshness on the top end. I got a hearing test done about 8 months ago (USAF Test for Fighter Pilots), and I scored 0. If you don't know what that means 1 is what most people score, while 0 is the best possible score you can get. Not that I'm bragging, I just haven't done anything to injure my hearing. Hence 0 means I have 0 (zero) hearing loss at 0dB on the entire scale.

Now so you know 0 was my overall score. I scored 0 on the right and 1 on the left because I missed some low tones down in the 40Hz scale of the test. I'm not an expert on mics, but I know what I hear.
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Show-off!!! :p :p :p


I would imagine that people's differing opinions of this mic might also be related to variance between individual mics. I have 2 of the 990s and have noticeably different sounds. One is more "boxy" sounding to my ears, while the other is smoother. Also, as has been beaten to death on this board, some mics respond to different voices better than others. Many high-end mics have similar frequency curves, but their quality control is better.
 
scrubs said:
I have 2 of the 990s and have noticeably different sounds. One is more "boxy" sounding to my ears, while the other is smoother.
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I don't disagree that different mics respond differently on the highend. With what you said above would you recommend for someone to buy the 990 blindly? Many people rave about the Oktava mics, but there is always that caveat "make sure you can test two or three before you buy it, 'cause you never know". When it comes to the 990 the "test before you buy" seems to rarely be mentioned.

I have to say that the 990 I tested didn't sound boxy at all (that would actually be a compliment to the sound I heard). The 990 sounded like I was inside a can. Remember when you were 7 or 8 and you build that 'telephone' out of two tomato cans (or whatever) and a string. You and your friend could talk to eachother (as long as the string was taunt), by speaking in the can. Well, that's what a 990 sounds like to me. Sure, the closer I would get to the 990 the less tin can noise there would be, the more room acoustics there were the worst the mic would sound.
 
Yea, I'm sure their QC sucks.

I've heard a lot of varying reports on these things. Lots of guys trying buying one, liking it, then buying another and realizing they sound nothing alike. Even for guys that didn't score 0. :D

What the hell? It's like 60 bucks for two mics. If one of 'em doesn't work, just use the other one, ebay the other, then buy another one and hope you do better. I'm telling you, mine sounds perfectly good, and far better than the rest of the Chinese crap out there.

And duh, yea, it's a bright mic. Look at the bump in it's frequency response. It's just like the 603. Bright mics are very useful to have around for things that need brightening. But no, it's not nearly as bad as the mxl-2003 or 2001 crap. It's way smoother than that. You probably got a dud. Either that or the 0 score -- which is probably not normal, by the way -- just makes you more sensitive to those frequencies so anything with a big bump there is going to make you cringe.

But Jeezus guys. It costs like nothing. So it doesn't sound like a ribbon mic. It's not supposed to. Get over it already.
 
Yeah, I agree with chess here. Try before you buy is always good advice, particularly for a mic to be used on voice. However, for $60, I didn't expect much from the 990 (and didn't plan to use it on voice initially, anyway). I figured it would be useful for something at some point. However, I used it to record some scratch vocals that were very nice. If there wasn't so much bleed from the guitar & click track, I'd keep them. I have layered some background vox that turned out pretty sweet, though. I also put it up on my amp for a clean electric part and was extremely impressed. Is it a $1000 mic? No, it's a $60 mic. But, it's a $60 mic that does things that couldn't be done for anywhere near that price a few years ago.

Sure, the QC is not great and the parts are probably very substandard. I had one 990 crap out on me, but I sent it back to MF for a replacement no problem. It's disposable. If you buy one and it dies, you can replace it or move up to the next level. All in all, I'm thrilled with what it does for the price. No regrets. Sorry your experience with that mic sucked. Maybe it's time you drop that zero and get with a ... :D :p
 
chessrock said:
So what does everyone think about the Listening Sessions?
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I wanna meet that girl who was singing. She *sounds* hot!!! :D
 
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