The Listening Sessions

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noisedude

noisedude

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Is anyone willing to help me do some ear learning involving the Listening Sessions? What I'd really like to do is comparisons of tracks and discuss what we each hear. I was just listening to a bunch of clips and I can hear differences now much more than before ... I just don't know if it's what everyone else is hearing.

It could be educational for all of us who need help knowing what we're hearing!!!

If anyone wants to bite, let's start with Session 1. I'm listening to tracks 25-30 inclusive, which are all the same vocalist going through a John Hardy, with the mics changing.

Tell me what you hear, and what you think is good or bad. If you're one of those clever types, tell me what you think is going to work in a mix or which you think suits this woman's voice best.
 
So if anyone wants to play, here are the six mics:

AKG SolidTube
AT4047
SE Electronics Z5600
SP B3
SP B1
AKG C3000

If you've not listened, tell us what you might expect to hear and we'll see if it matches up. I really think this would be a worthwhile way of getting help for us newbies!
 
noisedude said:
So if anyone wants to play, here are the six mics:

AKG SolidTube
AT4047
SE Electronics Z5600
SP B3
SP B1
AKG C3000

If you've not listened, tell us what you might expect to hear and we'll see if it matches up. I really think this would be a worthwhile way of getting help for us newbies!
Click to expand...
I'll take you up on the challange and I'll listen and tell you what I think.
Also, this is a great website to tell the guys in my class on Tuesday so that they can go and listen themselves.
 
Here is what I've heard.

AKG Solid Tube - Seemed a little harsh on the top end.
AT4047 - This was nice and smooth from the low end to the top end.
SE Z5600 - Very close to the AT4047 but picked up a little harshness on the top end (although not as much as the AKG Solid Tube).
B3 - I liked the nice proximity effect and sounded nice, although it sounded a little muffled to me.
B1- I could distinctly hear the noise on the line on this one. There was a clear white noise signal that just distracted me from the music.
AKG C3000 - This one is clearly the winner of the bunch. Nice and smooth capture, no harshness, really nice low S/N ratio and it just the best mic of the bunch.

If I had to pick a mic from the above list based on this listening, I would pick the AKG C3000 without a question.

In my opinion the above mics would rank as follows:
1. AKG C3000
2. AT4047
3. B3
4. SE Z5600
5. AKG Solid Tube
6. B1

Let's see what others come up with.

P.S. I used my newly acquired DT 770s to listen to these recordings.
 
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noisedude said:
Is anyone willing to help me do some ear learning involving the Listening Sessions? What I'd really like to do is comparisons of tracks and discuss what we each hear. I was just listening to a bunch of clips and I can hear differences now much more than before ... I just don't know if it's what everyone else is hearing.

It could be educational for all of us who need help knowing what we're hearing!!!

If anyone wants to bite, let's start with Session 1. I'm listening to tracks 25-30 inclusive, which are all the same vocalist going through a John Hardy, with the mics changing.

Tell me what you hear, and what you think is good or bad. If you're one of those clever types, tell me what you think is going to work in a mix or which you think suits this woman's voice best.
Click to expand...


Well, what I'm really hearing in the 5 samples you mention is the Studio Projects mics sucking big-time.

I'm sorry, but they just suck. It sounds like she's singing in to a Mr. Microphone. The Z5600 sounds gorgeous in contrast (albeit hyped), and the 4047 pretty straight-forward. AKG's don't sound bad at all. Interesting.

Pretty much what I'd expect, although the C-3000 really surprized me with how little it sucked, and the SP mics created a vaccum with their sheer suck factor.
 
"The Listening Sessions" has been appropriately shit on in the past, for hugely varying performances, perceived distances from the mic etc and without being there you don't know how these sources sound in the room. The gain staging is off, sometimes the singer(s) is noticeably bored and lifeless, and on guitars and amps we have no idea how the mic is positioned or what the original amp sounds like. Open your mouth ever so slightly less and tilt your head ever so slightly away from a mic and tell me if the sound doesn't change. Did these performers do this? Judging by the chit chat etc on the clips I doubt they fully understood what the people pressing record were trying to accomplish.

Now, I'm not totally opposed to using clips to give some kind of comparison as there is at least some merit to it. I've been guilty of posting small samples myself to give an idea of a mic. But I don't think any of this or that is telling you what you think it's always telling you. Are you hearing the mic and pre? Sure. Is it telling you what you need to know? You be the judge.

Just my opinion, carry on.

War
 
Hey chessrock. So are we to assume you don't like the SP mics? :D :D
Yes, another pointless post.
 
Warhead said:
"The Listening Sessions" has been appropriately shit on in the past, for hugely varying performances, perceived distances from the mic etc and without being there you don't know how these sources sound in the room. The gain staging is off, sometimes the singer(s) is noticeably bored and lifeless, and on guitars and amps we have no idea how the mic is positioned or what the original amp sounds like. Open your mouth ever so slightly less and tilt your head ever so slightly away from a mic and tell me if the sound doesn't change. Did these performers do this? Judging by the chit chat etc on the clips I doubt they fully understood what the people pressing record were trying to accomplish.
Click to expand...

Yea, but weren't you impressed by how crappy the SP mic clips sounded?
 
Warhead said:
Just my opinion, carry on.

War
Click to expand...
Yeah! but can we get your opinion on the different mics, based on these recordings??
 
Chess:

I'm on a laptop bro! It all sounds like ass from here!

War
 
Warhead said:
I'm on a laptop bro! It all sounds like ass from here!

War
Click to expand...
Cool! Just as long as it doesn't smell like ass. Although, if it were say Gwen Stephanie's ass, I'd probably wouldn't mind what it sounded or smelled like. :D :D
 
Dracon said:
Yeah! but can we get your opinion on the different mics, based on these recordings??
Click to expand...

Well, my studio is disassembled as I lay down a new floor in the joint and assemble my new desk and buy new furniture / decor etc. Again, I've posted a few mic samples in my day but those and these aren't telling you exactly what's going on. We could compare, but if the chick singing is 1" further to the side or back (or both) we don't know what we're comparing because we weren't there.

War
 
Dracon said:
Cool! Just as long as it doesn't smell like ass. Although, if it were say Gwen Stephanie's ass, I'd probably wouldn't mind what it sounded or smelled like. :D :D
Click to expand...

You've been busted sniffing seats in high school, haven't you? Come on...admit it.

War
 
noisedude said:
Is anyone willing to help me do some ear learning involving the Listening Sessions? What I'd really like to do is comparisons of tracks and discuss what we each hear. I was just listening to a bunch of clips and I can hear differences now much more than before ... I just don't know if it's what everyone else is hearing.

It could be educational for all of us who need help knowing what we're hearing!!!

If anyone wants to bite, let's start with Session 1. I'm listening to tracks 25-30 inclusive, which are all the same vocalist going through a John Hardy, with the mics changing.

Tell me what you hear, and what you think is good or bad. If you're one of those clever types, tell me what you think is going to work in a mix or which you think suits this woman's voice best.
Click to expand...

Not much time here:

There is large variation in levels which makes it harder to compare, also she seems to be at different distances from the mics, no pop filter with the C3000? Anyway,

AT4047 - sounds bit flat as it is but if I had to take 1 track and eq it this would be it

Z5600 - bit too sibilant for me, also on 'lying' my teeth hurt but thats more the singer than the mic

AKG C3000 - cant think of anything bad to say surprisingly

AKG Solid Tube - didn't like this too much, sounds boxy, maybe if she backed off a little..

B3, B1 - singing in a sock comes to mind

Ranked:
1) AT4047, AKG C3000 can't decide
2) Z5600
3) AKG Solidtube
4) B3
5) B1
 
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Warhead said:
You've been busted sniffing seats in high school, haven't you? Come on...admit it.

War
Click to expand...
Nope. Never been busted, sniffing seats. :D :rolleyes:
I've been busted in the girls bathroom making out (Catholic School), but never sniffing seats. I am an assman though.
 
Dracon said:
Nope. Never been busted, sniffing seats. :D :rolleyes:
I've been busted in the girls bathroom making out (Catholic School), but never sniffing seats. I am an assman though.
Click to expand...

We're all assmen ain't we?

War :p
 
Alright, I'll Play

The performances are not really close enough to adequately compare, in my opinion. She is obviously off-axis at times and at varying distances from the mics. There are significant volume differences between takes. It also seems she has some nasal congestion. However, since I have no Idea what I'm talking about, I'll offer my opinion anyway:

1) AKG SolidTube - This mic emphasizes the sibilance of her voice. Other than that, I like the timbre. Good proximity effect.
2) AT4047 - It seems to have a fairly open top end, but somehow makes her sound more "nasally." Singer's performance is inconsistent.
3) SEZ5600 - Again, the top end is open. Sibilance remains a problem. Too harsh.
4) B3 - she starts too far away from the mic, but then gets closer. hard to compare to the other mics for this reason. Too much rumble.
5) B1 - sounds like she is in a box. Picking up a fair amount of rumble.
6) C3000 - nice high-end bump, but not as airy sounding as the AT.

My rank:
AT4047 - best for a cutting through a pop track
AKG SolidTube - more jazzy sound, but overemphasizes sibilance
C3000/Z5600 - tie, didn't care much for either, really
B3 - kind of muffled
B1 - boxcar willie
 
paddyponchero said:
Not much time here:

There is large variation in levels which makes it harder to compare
Click to expand...

That wouldn't make it "harder" it would make it "impossible". .1db is audible... and the loudest product wins [hence why we have all this crap that is overly bright... because "bright" is considered "loud" which is often thought of as "good"].

I'm not saying these things are "rigged", just bloody inaccurate. As Warren pointed out earlier, there is no manner of perspective between the source tone and the recorded tone... MP-3 is such a vile vehicle for the transmission of product for the judgement of 'audio quality' it is sad/sick.

If you're looking to get a rough idea I reckon it might be OK... if you're trying to make any kind of real decision based on this crap you're just fooling yourself and everyone around you.

The best that can be said about this is that it's like watching a porno movie to determine that you like Brunettes better than Blondes... you have zero practical experience, but you're making a crucial decision.

Ah.... what's the use... Samuel Goldwyn was right and this is an uphill battle.
 
Ok - let's just make one thing clear, my mistake. This isn't about deciding about microphones - I certainly wouldn't advocate making any buying or recording decisions based on these mp3s!!! I'm not that stupid!

I want to discuss what we hear, and which we think sounds best 'as is' - bad placement, level variances and all.

So here's what I *thought*:

1) Solidtube - I liked this a lot - seemed warm and detailed. Less sibilance than some of the others.
2) AT4047 - Less warmth but an nice, open sound
3) Z5600 - Too much crackle at the top end
4) C3000 - kinda ok except for the ear-piercing sibilance ... the other mics brought it out but this one turned it into breaking glass IMVHO
5) B3
6) B1 - Neither of these two came out at all well. Again, not discussing the mics per se because of the limitations of the exercise ... but these sounded shockingly muffled and lifeless.
 
My pennies' worth.

The B1* & B2 have to have been positioned further away from the singer. The noise in the background is traffic noise and is really only on the SP tracks?

The solidtube & the SE seem to have similar tonality, perhaps a bit too bright.

I could live with either the C3000 or 4047 no probs, they seem the most neutral here.

I would need to hear the person singing in person to give any sort of meaningfull comments.

Tony

* close miked vocals on my B1 sound nothing like the clip, even thru so called "shitty" Behringer pre's
 
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