The Instances Where You DO NOT Use A Compressor

[Justsomeguy]

Here you can get an idea of who is who after been here for a little while and kinda know who is gonna post what. Who to listen to & most importantly who not to listen to lol. Little compradore is built i think could be wrong.

In terms of compression i'm in the RayC boat; the older i get, the less i use. Vocals and snares usually get some, maybe kick. I steer clear of it on electric guitars and acoustic guitars and would rather automate the volume if needed.

Saying that, i remember vividly using a comp on a crazy synth part with an arpegiator on it a while back to balance the the root notes with the extra notes. it sticks out in my memory because, as someone else mentioned earlier, alot of synth/key parts i come across are already fairly compressed so i normally steer clear of adding any more.

 

[grimtraveller]

I'm still something of an ignoramus in terms of the ins and outs of compression so I use it as a sound shaping tool like flanging or a Leslie. If I feel like it, I'll put a little on just to see what it does. If I like it and it fits in with everything else, I might keep it. But I'm not from the Mo Factor school of compression. Part of the reason is ignorance. Because I have to whack it on in large dollups to hear any difference to the signal, I tend to steer away from it.
That said, no instrument or voice is totally beyond it's scope.

 

[jonny deep]

I have to whack it on in large dollups to hear any difference to the signal

I hear that (or not, as the case may be).

 

[Armistice]

I find it extremely useful in ironing out DI-d bass.... that's my only "always" situation - and I use it in tracking and then in mixing, usually.

I'm starting to use it on snare samples to get them to sound better, but that's more as a tone shaping thing...

 

[moresound]

I find it extremely useful in ironing out DI-d bass.... that's my only "always" situation - and I use it in tracking and then in mixing, usually.

Same here! I like nothing better than to squash it down hard then push the output. Just love that sound.

 

[Mo Facta]

But I'm not from the Mo Factor school of compression. Part of the reason is ignorance. Because I have to whack it on in large dollups to hear any difference to the signal, I tend to steer away from it.

That's a common problem with plugin compressors. They tend to be very transparent and do very little to the sound when working very hard, especially the stock comps that come bundled with DAWs.

There's no way, though, that you can slap an 1176 - even the UAD version - onto a track and NOT hear it. It's aggressive. So is the 160VU.

Some compressors are really grabby and some are smooth. Pick your poison.

Cheers

 

[grimtraveller]

That's a common problem with plugin compressors. They tend to be very transparent and do very little to the sound when working very hard, especially the stock comps that come bundled with DAWs.

There's no way, though, that you can slap an 1176 - even the UAD version - onto a track and NOT hear it. It's aggressive. So is the 160VU.

I'm not sure I'd describe the effects on my standalone as plug ins but I get your point. I used to have a dbx 266XL and most of the time on my Tascam 488, you could hear it's effect !

Name the places in mixing where most would use a comp, but you do not ?

I don't like it on overheads. I find it makes the cymbals seem really odd to my ears. I'm not a great one for it on the vocals either.

I find it extremely useful in ironing out DI-d bass....

Funny thing with bass, that's one of the only times I can really immediately hear the effect of the compressor. I quite like it sometimes when I use it, but I find it thickens the bass tone which I rarely want. It's also weird how different machines treat DI bass. When I used to try it with my Tascam 488, the DI bass was flabby and ppwwoffy with no oomph or slap. But in the Akai DPS12i, on the occasions I go DI, it's royal, rich and regal........

push the output.

Dare I admit such ignorance, but sometimes, I use the compressor just for the extra output !

 

[Justsomeguy]

I find it extremely useful in ironing out DI-d bass.... that's my only "always" situation - and I use it in tracking and then in mixing, usually.

Bass was the by far the hardest part of my "how to use compressors" learning curve years back. listening back to old mixes i often cringe at how soulless and flat the bass sounds on most of the tracks (which really does ruin the rest of the feel for the tracks). Even now it's one instrument i approach with apprehension when compressing. For a while i used subtle distortion instead of compression for bass DI's which i found worked really well at balancing out the tracks and adding some "depth", but it didn't work all the time and didn't have the same amount of control as a standard compressor so have just sucked it up and gone back to compressors (although running a parallel bus with distortion on for bass still makes me happy)

 

[jimmys69]

Bass was the by far the hardest part of my "how to use compressors" learning curve years back. listening back to old mixes i often cringe at how soulless and flat the bass sounds on most of the tracks (which really does ruin the rest of the feel for the tracks). Even now it's one instrument i approach with apprehension when compressing. For a while i used subtle distortion instead of compression for bass DI's which i found worked really well at balancing out the tracks and adding some "depth", but it didn't work all the time and didn't have the same amount of control as a standard compressor so have just sucked it up and gone back to compressors (although running a parallel bus with distortion on for bass still makes me happy)

I agree. My favorite tool to simplify bass guitar tone, is the PSP Vintage Warmer. It is basically a compressor with saturation. Even the bass guitar preset works well, though hot as hell.

 

[Farview]

I never use mix buss compression.

I do compressindividual instruments for the sound of compression, not to limit the dynamic range. Its mainly for transient shaping and sustain control.

Mostly drums, bass, vocals and acoustic guitar.

 

[jporter12]

Noob question here, but using a DAW what's the though of a multi-band compression on the busses? I like it on the Drums bus especially, but just in very light amounts.

 

[jimmys69]

Noob question here, but using a DAW what's the though of a multi-band compression on the busses? I like it on the Drums bus especially, but just in very light amounts.

Multi band compressors are more for 'fixing' issues IMO. Can't say that I use them much anymore. What DAW/compressor are you using?

 

[Massive Master]

Maul-the-band compression as a last resort only IMO... Find out why it needs MBC and fix it before you bother with it.

 

[Rod Norman]

These are all great comments. But it seems the question relates more to why as opposed to when. I'll see if this helps. Compression does two things. It reduces dynamic range, therefore making something sound closer or more present and it focuses frequencies into place in the reduced dynamic range. The first is good if you need something like vocals or the snare to sit in one place in the overall volume and good when mixing to make sure some frequencies are not lost due to comb filtering cancellation. (where several instruments with the same frequency cancel each other out. The new noise cancelling systems work that way by sampling sounds and then broadcasting them back into the room to cancel them out. It's a very frequency focused concept.)

So, I use no compression on anything that I want to balance with high or low volumes in the mix; basically everything.

But many vocalists do NOT have the best mic technique and need some compression during recording to keep them present while reducing clipping if they get too close or too loud. This method of compressing before mixing allows you to get what is known as a smooth volume level with whispers as loud as shouts. The snare and the bass drum in pop music sometimes needs to be tight in the volume range, so I compress them during recording. Everything else is allowed to breath so that the drums sound more human. Even if it is jazz and the drummer might feather the bass drum or snare, those ghost notes don't get lost.

Everything else has no compression either during recording or during the mix.

During mastering, I will burn a cd and see what it sounds like compared to similar other groups in the finished state listening carefulky for frequencies that seem to make the finals pop. If my masters need some compression, I will run them through a multiband compressor and check the presets first. Sometimes there is a perfect one. (ignore the names like rock or jazz) If I feel it needs tweaking, I will do that. I will then again check a cd against my gold standard cd. I might do that again over several days, letting my ears rest between each session. Then I try it out on many different systems to see if I got it right.
I hope that helps.
NewYorkRod

 

[Mo Facta]

Maul-the-band compression as a last resort only IMO... Find out why it needs MBC and fix it before you bother with it.

Lately I've been reaching for a dynamic EQ instead for certain things, like controlling low end build up, room resonances, de-nostriling on vocals, and even de-essing. I find they work a lot better than MBC's for similar tasks. To be honest, I honestly can't find a scenario where I can't accomplish the same thing, more transparently with a dynamic EQ. I think that might have something to do with the fact that you can tailor the Q-width. You can't really do that on most MBC's, besides changing the width of each band. And you can't make one narrower without making at least one adjacent band larger due to only having crossover points.

These are all great comments. But it seems the question relates more to why as opposed to when.

Well, the title of the OP is The Instances Where You DO NOT Use A Compressor. An instance is definitely a when. In any case, why is directly related to when in that you do not arrive at when without the why.

I'll see if this helps. Compression does two things. It reduces dynamic range, therefore making something sound closer or more present and it focuses frequencies into place in the reduced dynamic range. The first is good if you need something like vocals or the snare to sit in one place in the overall volume and good when mixing to make sure some frequencies are not lost due to comb filtering cancellation. (where several instruments with the same frequency cancel each other out. The new noise cancelling systems work that way by sampling sounds and then broadcasting them back into the room to cancel them out. It's a very frequency focused concept.)

While I think I understand what you're saying in the rest of the above quote, can you please elaborate on what you mean in the bold bits? Are you talking about the spectral content of the input signal and the focus of the compressor's detector? What do you mean by "focuses frequencies into place"?

Of course, if there are erroneous resonances or a frequency imbalance in the input signal, the margin of swing between them might be narrowed. But I don't think that's always the case. A compressor will be most sensitive to whatever range has the most energy within the input signal, which is why when you feed the side chain an EQ boosting the snot out of 5kHz, you get a de-esser. I would also wager that it has a lot to do with the specific design of the compressor. The 1176 was famed for retaining the top end in a recording because most compressors, when hit hard, dull the tops. Good designs tend to not suffer from that ailment. Is that what you're talking about?

And that's not really comb filtering. Comb filtering results, for instance, when two microphones on the same source are shifted from each other by distance, and therefore by time (point of origin and speed of sound staying a constant) or when a signal is delayed and added to itself, causing modulation interferences. It is also the basis of modulation effects like chorus and phasing. That is why I am having trouble understanding why you have brought this up in a discussion around compression, which is an amplitude-domain process.

Please could you also explain the "new noise canceling systems" and link me to an example of this technique or technology?

So, I use no compression on anything that I want to balance with high or low volumes in the mix; basically everything.

I'm sorry - and I'm really not trying to be funny here - but this statement confuses me as well. Are you saying that you don't use compression on anything? Can you please clarify a little more?

But many vocalists do NOT have the best mic technique and need some compression during recording to keep them present while reducing clipping if they get too close or too loud. This method of compressing before mixing allows you to get what is known as a smooth volume level with whispers as loud as shouts. The snare and the bass drum in pop music sometimes needs to be tight in the volume range, so I compress them during recording. Everything else is allowed to breath so that the drums sound more human. Even if it is jazz and the drummer might feather the bass drum or snare, those ghost notes don't get lost.

Nebulous once again but I think I see what you're saying. You're talking about how dynamic sources sometimes need compression during tracking, right? I don't have a lot of outboard but because I have a pretty monster studio machine I can use a very low buffer and apply my UAD plugins at the track level if I or the performer wants to hear compression during tracking. Same with reverb. I use the Control Room Mixer in Cubase to make cue mixes and it works like a dream so all of my processing is truly done ITB at the moment. However, I do miss having a compressor to use on vocals (I sold all my compressors begrudgingly in a studio upgrade), but I think that'll be my next purchase. I've been looking at an FMR RNC. That's all I'll need, really. I don't generally compress individual drums any more but now and then I'll compress the kick to combat flabbiness. I way prefer to use a dedicated drum bus compressor like an 1776 or a 160VU emulation, or even Bootsy's Thrillseeker LA on the drum bus, which I can also do during tracking.

Everything else has no compression either during recording or during the mix.

During mastering, I will burn a cd and see what it sounds like compared to similar other groups in the finished state listening carefulky for frequencies that seem to make the finals pop. If my masters need some compression, I will run them through a multiband compressor and check the presets first. Sometimes there is a perfect one. (ignore the names like rock or jazz) If I feel it needs tweaking, I will do that. I will then again check a cd against my gold standard cd. I might do that again over several days, letting my ears rest between each session. Then I try it out on many different systems to see if I got it right.
I hope that helps.
NewYorkRod

Sorry, please can you explain the bolded bits again? You're jumping around from frequencies to compression and I'm not really following.

I personally wouldn't look to a MBC as my first go-to processor if I feel the mix needs some compression. I would simply compress it with a normal wideband, possibly something like a Manley-Vari MU, an SSL 384, or a Tube Tech CL1B.There might be a time where the low end might need a little compressing on it's own or a strident frequency here or there, but in those case I would use maybe one or two bands. But then again, I don't use MBC's too often. And presets? I don't think there could be anything more destructive to a mix than a preset on a multiband compressor.

And yes, referencing is a must with any recording (even though I hate it because it's the moment of truth!).

Cheers

 

[Mo Facta]

Edit: Duplicate post.

 

[Mo Facta]

Noob question here, but using a DAW what's the though of a multi-band compression on the busses? I like it on the Drums bus especially, but just in very light amounts.

What do you like about it? Can you explain to me what you're hearing when you use it on drums and why it appeals to you?

I, like Jimmy and Massive, would only grab for a MBC when looking to fix a specific problem and it will, 99% of the time, be a build-up at a specific frequency range. However the build-up has to be somewhat global because if it just happens to be, say, the low end of the guitar, it's going to affect the bass drum and bass guitar when you go for it with an MBC. To me that's not ideal and very often does not sound better.

There's the other approach - which I call the Waves C4/LinMB method - of setting a global threshold, tailoring specific ratios and timing for each band and pushing the input signal into the threshold. The theory here is that it will reduce dynamic swing from band to band and therefore "smooth out" the frequency balance. That being said, I can't think of anything that would be more affective in creating a boring mix. It will definitely make your mix louder, but will it make it better?

MBC?
Not for me.

Cheers

 

[jaynm26]

^ Oh shit (The individual in questions got Mo stirred up) you got to really monitor what you say sometimes when your post in here. A lot of guys in here been playin "poker" for a lonnnngg time and will not hesitate to will call your bluff at anytime. Gotta watch what you use them keys for when your speaking on things you "think" you know. My advice if your don't know then don't press those keys. As my dad would say "Got to be mo' careful!"

(Why does it always tickle me when newbs makes statements bout techniques they use but probably shouldn't perform without more experience & knowledge but they always say things like.."Oh yea I do use that but ONLY in very small amounts. Lol, why does that tickle me so much lol.)

 

[jaynm26]

Well, the title of the OP is The Instances Where You DO NOT Use A Compressor. An instance is definitely a when. In any case, why is directly related to when in that you do not arrive at when without the why.

Blasted English class

 

[jaynm26]

Jeff Foxworthy says when your a redneck you can say whatever you wanna say bout a guy in the worst way but it will be received well as long as you end it with "Bless your hear heart"..."Well you dumb sun of gun your dumber than the sheeps under belly, a 4 peckered billy goat, two rocks rubbed together, cow paddy on a summers day, son of a..etc... Bless your heart.

Mo Facto, "well you dumb son a...&%@{ , , , ,
Cheers!!"...