The Great Homerec'er "Mastering" Dual!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Queue
  • Start date Start date

Which Sounds the Best to You?

  • TicketA

    Votes: 34 47.9%

  • TicketB

    Votes: 16 22.5%

  • TicketC

    Votes: 10 14.1%

  • I honestly cannot pick one as the clear winner.

    Votes: 11 15.5%
  • Total voters
    71
Don't get your chess's mixed up. chess rock is part of the duel (got it right that time ;) ) chessparov frequents the mic forum, and is not directly involved here.

Queue
 
The only comment I have so far is that a surprising number of people seem to have cotton in their ears! ;)

:D :D
 
Here south of the canadian border have been saturated by so much Canadian music the cotton is nessesary.

I still demand a formal apology for Brian Adams, Celine Dion etc...
 
Hey... I think Celine Dion owes the WORLD an apology! God, I can't stand that crap.........

I'm not much of a Brian Adams fan either...... (although he's got a nice studio!)

:)
 
Ugg....

I think the whole thing is just silly. I listened to all the choices and after 5 seconds couldn't bare it any more. Through this whole thing I'm more shocked that Bruce, You would let yourself get into a little pissing contest. Don't you feel good enough knowing that you actually get to do this as a living instead of some kid with moms computer and a burner. You know what's right and you know what's real so why bother with all this crap?

There's maybe 5 guys in here whom I trust as true professionals and you're one of them Bruce. Your knowledge and experience are valid enough without having to see who's got the biggest shlong.

I don't need to vote to find out who's real in these forums.

Vance
 
In fairness, I reckon that's a bit strong...

This was a fun way of solving a heated discussion brought on by an overconfident challenge. Should the fact that Mr. Bear "lowered" himself to home-rec'er level be held against him ?

Come on.

pAp.
 
Not to mention that you've never heard a mix from either Bruce or the "kid with his mom's computer".

I thought we were supposed to trust our ears?

Slackmaster 2000
 
I've read many of Bruces posts and visited his site. I also think trusting your judgement as well as ears goes a long way. Listening to an mp3 is not the best way to judge a mastering job but hey it's only my opinion. Perhaps my post was a bit rough and I apolagize.

Good Luck with the contest!
 
Slackmaster2K said:
Not to mention that you've never heard a mix from either Bruce or the "kid with his mom's computer".

I thought we were supposed to trust our ears?

Slackmaster 2000
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm last time I got into this debate, I got overheated.

What Slack writes is true..you should trust your ears... however in a perhaps more pilosopical veiw...Perhaps some of us can't even reconize a good mastering job when its done?.

NOBODY pounce down my throat please...:)
But imagine this scenerio ....A mix is limited so it sounds real hot and loud yet the limiting is doing some damage to the high end.
I am defenitly sure that many people would say "hey that sounds powerfull and great". While a person with more experience might say well its hot all right but its damaged and now sounds worse then before.....

This contest from a pro mastering aspect will actully prove very little (although it might be fun).

I have a hobby and love to cook. I cook gourmet meals and my wife dumps on it Ketchup :mad: :rolleyes:
For her its good when it is swamped in that red crap. Yet for me it is the death blow of a masterpeice....
Who is right? .........and so I ask - CAN we trust our ears ?!?!
 
Re: Ugg....

Vance Dylan said:
You know what's right and you know what's real so why bother with all this crap?
Click to expand...
Easy... it's all for shits 'n giggles!!

And if someone learns something from this little exercise, all the better!

;)


Bruce
 
Shailat, I do agree. However I'm sure you recognize that our ears are the only tools with which we can judge music. By "ears" I'm not just talking about the things stuck to the sides our heads, and I'm guessing that you aren't either.

I think that both of these mastering jobs had weaknesses, however one was easier to listen to. So what's the verdict? What's it mean? Nothing. I gave one a 7 and one a 0. Does that mean I like the 7? No, it just means that it was that much better than the 0 IHMO. The source material was quite difficult to listen to for a number of reasons (I'm not talking about the lyrical content; to each his own). All of the instruments were either canned or over-processed. The vocals were just too much. etc, etc. I wish that this little "competition" had been to remaster some old jazz tune, or something that everyone could at least listen to critically and loud, repeatedly. (mixmkr, I hope that you do not take what I'm saying too personally. there are plenty of people who hate the sounds I make, myself included quite often, and that's just the way it goes) And maybe it should have been to master 3 songs together...what was this song mastered in relation to? Is there some magical norm that I'm not aware of?

I hear a LOT of comments around here that simply blow my mind. "How can a person actually listen to that, and think that it sounds good?" When I first came here, everything sounded pretty good...I think my brain was filling in gaps....my PC speakers sounded "alright". Heh. Now most things sound bad, but the good things sound even better. Maybe my "ears" are bad and I can't trust them...I'm open to that possibility, and I try to work on my listening skills (which basically means, what is it really about that sound that I like so much?). Maybe their ears suck? It's almost pointless trying to argue it because there is no reference, and no tools to measure competence.

Will the outcome of this really mean anything? No, it's just for fun. It's like all the POD vs. real amp listening contests where all the samples sound like shit and we're supposed to be impressed that the amp sounds just as shitty as the POD. Woopie ding dong.

The blind "I trust the pros around here" attitude has always bugged me. I mean I'm 100% thankful for all of the things that I've read on this board, and I owe my entire attitude to it. In 5 years when I finally make a good recording I'll have this place to thank. Does that mean that I'm going to *assume* that bruce is the champion? Heck no. A guy can't piss without hitting a recording studio these days, and lord knows that we've all got dozens upon dozens of crappy recordings made in professional studios. I take everything with a grain of salt, and keep myself wide open. But I'm not about to act like a cheerleader. I've heard clips from some of the pros here that I thought were phenomenal. I've heard clips from pros that I thought sucked, even if they were better than amature norm. Now what does THAT mean?

I like Albini, others think he's a hack.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Can I get a sample of the cooking please? I promise not to put that red stuff on it!!

And apart from that, in the end its all about the song and the performance, the rest al comes remote second
 
Last edited:
Vance...

I'm guessing you didn't read the original thread...

(I don't blame you, it is really long, and gets downright adolescent at times.)

In it, Bruce emphatically (and repeatedly) states (I'll paraphrase):

I'm NOT a mastering engineer, but I know enough about the process to safely say that it is something you cannot do well at home, by yourself, on your mom's computer. (I had to keep your "mom's computer stuff" :D )

He also insisted that someone who knew what they were doing did the judging. Shailat has arranged for that. We opened things up for the masses here for fun, and education.

So, this little exercise was concocted to try to prove a point, and hopefully be educational.

Is it silly? Yes! But I believe that it is educational. One of the points it has proven is that many here don't have the ability to pick out a good master against a bad one. Without knowing which is which, looking at the current results, and reading between the lines, somewhere between 18-50% of the people picked the original!!! (There are also two people so far, who are willing to admit that they don't know what they're listening for...)

Lastly, you commented: Listening to an mp3 is not the best way to judge a mastering job but hey it's only my opinion. I'm certain we can all agree with that statement, but that is why I have the .wav files (compressed to ape format) available.

Finally (uh oh, what happened to Lastly?.... :eek: )
In concession to Bruce, although he didn't specifically ask me to do it, I purposefully placed the quotation marks around the word "Mastering" in the subject.

So, if you wanna join in on the fun, come on in.

I commend Bruce for giving us the time.

Queue
 
relative and subjective

Besides being fun, I think this might prove that most home recordists can't tell the difference between a good mastering job and a bad one. When I say good and bad mastering, I'm only referring to the professional opinion and the differences only a select few can hear. I have respect for all professionals here, and while I don't blindly accept what they have to say, I always give their opinion a lot of weight. I personally could tell very little difference in the two that were mastered... and I hear things much, much better than anyone else I know outside of here, including those I played the examples for. Since many people that like to record either for a living or a hobby can't decide which is better, you could reason that the general public is much less experienced in listening and wouldn't be able to tell a difference at all.

I guess what I'm saying is that it proves to me that as long as I master my own stuff here at home to my satisfacation then all but those with golden ears (or at least lots of listening knowledge) are gonna find it acceptable. And then at that opinions could still differ. While it could certainly be better if it had a good pro mastering job done, why bother spending that money just so a pro can hear it and say it sounds good when it really makes no difference to most listeners? IMO, I'd rather save that money and have complete control over the final sound even if it means sacrificing that little bit of extra quality... relative quality.... quality that less than 10% of the audience could even hear anyways. ;)
 
yeah.....What Jon said.

There really wasn't a lot of difference between the 2 mastering jobs. Whoever says that one sounded like crap and the other sounded awesome is on crack....or should be...:D
 
Heh heh, I was at home when I downloaded the 1st one, and my wife turns to me while laughing..."what in the world is that"
She made me replay it several times...She just shook her head in disbelief. Thats even after hearing me sing...what does that tell you!
Ouchie Momma!~

Peace,
Dennis
 
There was no question it was a "vocal-up" mix.... keep in mind, that is not something that would be adjusted at the mastering stage -- if it was intentional, the M.Eng would not touch it, if it was not intentional, it would have to be remixed....

Bruce
 
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