The formula for a "hit song"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Diverdown
  • Start date Start date
...

the child prodigy thing, thats a well noted "syndrome", for lack of a more appropriare word.

young children have sponges for minds... they suck up everything around them, and dont question it or prejudice it. If they happen to be really bright kids, its even more "noticeable", depending on the application.

most times you meet a real shark at pool? if you like pool, you ingratiate yourself to them to try to get a few pointers out of them. The most common thread I ever heard from ALL of them, was somethign that went like...

"Well, grandpap had a 9-foot regulation slate table in his large basement, I used to spend summers and weekends there. I prolly shot pool since before I can remember, right after I started to walk. Plus, grandpap shot in a few local tournaments when he was younger, so..."

which is also how a bright 6 year old kid can learn to play "eruption" and "cliffs of dover". If they are brighter than normal, AND someone in the family or close to them plays guitar well, AND understands it all thoroughly enough they have the magical ability to explain it in a plain way to the kid... AND it all seens "fun" to the kid, and not like work....

as the kid gets older, if he has interest in it, and its not all because his yuppie parents were "pushing him" to show off their "prodigy"... he might stick with his instrument, or a similar one, and go on to become a "virtuoso performer".

Once to a certain age, if he manages to get around someone who can compose... mix... arrange... I figure this is where "geniuses" come from in various fields.

I realize music is not math, or mechanics, or anythign else... and you are right, talent is a huge ingredient at some point to making "the hit". there are tens of thousands of mathematicians out there, but relatively few get a "theory" named after them. Many chemists out there, but few invent a famous compound or whatnot...

but, you CAN get into something late in life, from another field, immerse yourself in it, make progress quickly... and get to the point where you find out if you HAVE any inherent talent or not...

but on a philosophical side, I dont think its fair to music in general... to hold out the idea that if you dont have "it" you might as well hang up your spurs. You have to put in a lot of time to find out if you have "it", and many will get frustrated and quit... before they can find out.

I knew bass players who weren't thought much of as 6 string guys... but, they ended up really incredible bass players. A lot of singers who were close but no cigar... became really impressive piano players. I also know (in many fields, not just music...) people pushed and pushed and pushed... then one day, BANG!, success comes, and all of a sudden they go on to become legends. Just like that (snap!) their "idiotic ideas" revolutionize a field.

I dont think someone can take a 4 year course in music study... then just rent a small office, buy a old piano and get it tuned, and sit there and write "hits". But... I also dont think you can just learn to strum 145 bar chords, and just "say whats in your heart", just because you have talent, and expect a CD and a national tour.

I dont think I have any inherent talent at pitched music composition, personally, but that will not stop me from spending time at my hobby, and trying. Yet, my dream is to score a composition and manage to get "published" as background music on a hunting video. (or a porn, whichever)

Laugh yer ass off all you want at THAT, I dont really care. *shrugs* we are ALL HERE, every one of us, buying lottery tickets. SOMEone hits the "really big lotto" every once in a while, and none of us know who. "talent" is subjective, and i enjoy learning to compose in my spare time. I think I came a really long way in the last 4 or 5 years, not knowing ANYthing. I feel slightly misty-eyed its time to go back to work (might hav found a job, interview in a couple hours, lol) and I feel slightly "cheated" I didnt start learning to compose when I was 20, instead of in my late thirties.

what you all say about talent is very true... but, you have to spend a lot of time, and hard work, getting to the point where you find out. Does one need "talent"? Sure, in ANY field... thats simply obvious. But "rank newbs" need to understand there's more to learning to compose and songwrite than just bad poetry over 3 bar chords, too... and drinking beer and doing drugs and loose sex with underage women....

... its actually work, it takes time and, yes, some studying... there IS a market for a solo acoustic, soft easy strumming chords, and some soulful, well chosen lyrics... there's also a market for sounbtracks for movie music... with an orchestra (or a computer, lol) playing what someone wrote. And, you just cant DO THAT without studying classical composition, and experience with instrumentation.

Yu know the "goo goo dolls" ? That dang song "name"? Was that guy talented? sure as heck was. I was older than the young kids aruond me when that came out and went huge. I was just "sure" I had HEARD the name "goo goo dolls" before, but I just figured that was just the name of some old band that never went anywhere...

... it was, LMAO... and I was right (I like trivia, lol). turned out that WAS th same guy in some horrible punk band back when I was a teenager. he went back into obscurity, and played around bars in his home city, and spent the next 15 YEARS, slowly learning music theory and writing lyrics, and learning how to put the two together "just right"...

... then "name" came out, and BANG!, everyone thought you just need "talent" to make a "simple" acoustic guitar song and some soulful lyrics.

there was 20 years of WORK involved with that. If its just talent thats the main ingredient, he would have been a huge hit 15 or 20 years earlier.
 
My experience tells me that the main ingredient is talent. I'd be a liar if I said I thought differently.

But if it turns out to be hard work and a small amount of talent, for example, then fine.

I really don't mind.

But it doesn't look like that to me, that's all.

Each to his own theory I guess.

Frank :)
 
Do you think if I record a riff with this progression, and backtrack it in a chorus, my song will become successful? Think about it, it would be subliminally radio-friendly. That way it would be played on the radio, and die-hard fans (if I had any:/) couldn't accuse me of selling out because they wouldn't know what I did to make it popular.

:D
 
I'm going to do a remake of "I've got a lovely pair of coconuts!" :p
 
So... there was a discussion about making a "Hit" song before everyone started arguing there point of view. Basically, what it comes down to for me is that music is, in I guess a scientific kinda way, a vibration. and energy.
Human beings are also vibrations, seeing as how we are all made of atoms, molecules, protons nuetrons and so on. we all vibrate at different frequencies in our own way.. therefore, when we hear a song that resonates with our vibe, then we like it!
Why else would there be so many different styles of music genre? Millions of people can't be wrong for loving gregorian monks chanting some dark ominous tones, and hating the very concept of Kanye west.
Who am I to judge who's music is "better" or "worse"? it's actually not even my place to try to do so!
Once a song is written, it can't be unwritten. and if Sally Sue Simmersauce loves it but Billy Bob Bigwang absolutely despises it.. Who cares? To each their own in this respect!
We all make music from our innercore vibration, it's what we feel, and hear when we try to express ourselves.. and while I do agree that some songs (like the Macarena for example) are built to sell, as someone said earlier.
these songs are built to sell to a target demographic.

I work at a concert venue in seattle called the showbox and we get all kinds of 'popular' artists playing shows there! And every show I hear this from at least one of my co-workers... "This band frickin blows!!!"... I've even said it myself, but that doesn't take away from the fact that there are still 2,000 fans there, jumping screaming, crying, trippin' balls and gettin' drunker than a wino that just found fifty bucks. these people paid the admission fee because, whether we like it or not, they love this band! these fans are this bands target demographic.

I guess what I'm gettin' at is that Hit songs are only hit songs because they sell units. not because everyone in the world likes the song, but enough people in this particular genre of music actually went to the store and purchased the music or requested it on their favorite radio station over and over again until finally, it is declared a "Hit" song according to the charts.

I'm still gonna make the music I feel, and if I ever write a Hit song,,, well,, that's awesome,, and if not... I'm still awesome to myself and the people who truly appreciate my sound!!
 
chazba said:
If you are gonna call yourself a "Songwriter" at least learn the names of the tools you will be using. Take a music theory class at your local Junior College or at minimum , buy (and read) a book on music theory. You can't develop beyond a newb level without it.
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree with this. Those tools can help you, but you can write good songs without any of them.
 
The Laws of Physics....

You're right Supercreep...it's possible to write even "great" songs without the foggiest notion of theoretical relationships between the harmonic and melodic elements. But the relationships exist whether or not we acknowledge them or can discuss them. It's kinda like the laws of physics.


chazba

Fight organized crime...
vote 'em ALL out of office!
 
I have no idea what the song is that Mayer refers to - I haven't heard it (lucky me or then again - an example of the up side of age based memory loss).
If you can hum you can come up with a good song - you may have trouble arranging it but melody wins almost every time - except when it's a monster riff (or should I say ostinato?) which is, after all a progression of notes oft repeated so is hummable.
Remember when being able to boom ch, ch, boom bomm secured a hit? I gues I was wrong - don't even need to hum.
BUT some of the best music I've heard, bought, remembered, talked about, was from untutored folk who just made a noise that sounded good/expressive to their own ears.
 
There's two types of songs:

1) inspired where the song seemingly "comes out of nowhere"

and

2) contrived, where you try to use reason to make a hit

All contrived songs suck, it's using the wrong part of your brain.

So the concept of this thread is stupid - it's how people who aren't inspired think, like they'd teach you in university or college music programs.

Forget it, you'll never "logic out" art.
 
dintymoore said:
There's two types of songs:

1) inspired where the song seemingly "comes out of nowhere"

and

2) contrived, where you try to use reason to make a hit

All contrived songs suck, it's using the wrong part of your brain.

So the concept of this thread is stupid - it's how people who aren't inspired think, like they'd teach you in university or college music programs.

Forget it, you'll never "logic out" art.
Click to expand...

That's a good post.

And...John Mayer has a shed in Upstate NY?!?!?:eek:

Anyway,

Sometimes I try and write songs when I'm not really inspired because that's what time dictates, with a full life outside of Music and all. These songs come out the worst, like 99% of the time because instead of feeding off of "inspiration," I'm sitting there going "hmm, what will sound cool? What will sound good?" .................and once that overthinking takes over, Cow Diarhea is created.
 
dintymoore said:
There's two types of songs:

1) inspired where the song seemingly "comes out of nowhere"

and

2) contrived, where you try to use reason to make a hit

All contrived songs suck, it's using the wrong part of your brain.

So the concept of this thread is stupid - it's how people who aren't inspired think, like they'd teach you in university or college music programs.

Forget it, you'll never "logic out" art.
Click to expand...
Can't agree with that. Once a genre exists you could argue to some extent that any song written within it is contrived. Let's face it, funk bands or rap artists are hardly going to make a practice of writing country and western numbers ! :) And whether we like it or not, tons of the writers that over the years have written the 'great' songs have written songs that were a little contrived or utterly contrived. Sometimes they weren't contrived at all.
But you know, this idea that only songs that 'seemingly come from nowhere' have any value is IMHO, with all due respect, misleading. Inspiration, perspiration, collaboration and yes, contrivance {that is, knowing what will appeal and hopefully SELL} are part of the songwriting process - in varying degrees, in various combinations and with other aspects.
The funny thing is that so called "contrived" songs obviously work and millions of people like them ! And unlike some, I do not regard listeners as stupid thickheads who are simply fooled by spin and aren't capable of making their own mind up. We like what we like.....
It's also a huge assumption that an 'inspired' song is necesarilly a good one. How does anyone know what an inspired song is ? What if an 'inspired' song is a load of tripe that no one digs ? Alot of avant garde, unlistenable, screeching honking free jazz was inspired ! The same can be so true of popular music.
I think that there are so many ways of writing songs. Sometimes, for a certain period, writers and recording labels obviously try to replicate what has been shown to be successful. That happens in many walks of life, artistic ones too.
 
gt2008 said:
instead of feeding off of "inspiration," I'm sitting there going "hmm, what will sound cool? What will sound good?" .................and once that overthinking takes over, Cow Diarhea is created.
Click to expand...
This is a very generalizing observation so bear with me. A punk songwriter, when writing songs will generally write from a position of knowing or having some idea what their audience or whoever they are aiming at, likes. They are unlikely to knock out Whitney Houston type ballads. Why ?
Inspiration is a great thing but songwriting is at least part craft. That means that sometimes, songs will be written very consciously, with all kinds of ingredients......
Incidentally many artists and writers have hated their own songs even when the public have loved them. Go figure !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top