The first step in making it big- jump on this opportunity!!!

[Homegrown Vinyl]

Homegrown Vinyl, LLC just launched a new online music community for unsigned bands and artists looking to sell and distribute their music and get it circulating in the global Internet market.

homegrownvinyl.com

It's in its initial faze of building a database of unsigned bands and artists at the moment, but the complete launch isn't far away. We believe that its essential to have a diversified and large database for purchasers to scour.

This is not a record label. If you place your music on the site to sell and get a record deal, then you can take your music with you. All we ask is that you say, "we knew you when."

We sell songs for $0.50 and bands and artists receive $0.25 of the proceeds. This 50 percent royalty won't be found anywhere else! Plus, bands and artistsis retain all outside physical sales. We just pay you for the music thats bought from our site, homegrownvinyl.com.

Homegrown Vinyl aims to bring creative musicians to the forefront of music distribution without changing their music, clothes, lyrics or album covers to fit into a predetermined design.

Artists who are drawn towards the underground and local music scenes because of the free speech associated with the venues, are the clients of Homegrown Vinyl. These people do not rely on billboard charts to gather new music and find new talent. Homegrown Vinyl seeks people who are passionate about their music because their music speaks of their unique personality and way of life. This type of music and artist is predominant in local unsigned bands.

These bands are still raw in lyrics and sound and in touch with their fan base and the local scene. Homegrown Vinyl was designed to service these bands and provide them access to a global distribution channel.

If this sounds like you, you need to jump on this opportunity. Homegrown Vinyl can provide you and your band a world-wide market to get you the recognize you deserve and help you make money.

Visit the site at homegrownvinyl.com, click on my account and upload your music to sell.

If you have any further questions call 970.493.4266

 

[Agent47]

You can go fuck yourself in this section, too.

What a great deal - the company takes 50% of the money while doing 0% of the work.

The sad thing is that there will be talented musicians out there who are naive enough to sign up to this...

 

[Homegrown Vinyl]

Yes, Homegrown Vinyl makes a 50 percent profit, as does the artist. Subscription sites like iTunes and Napster charge a dollar for a song and artist(s) only get $0.09 of the royalties. 50% compared to 9% is quite a big difference and much more profitable for the artist(s).

The company does all the marketing, advertising and publicity for the site and featured bands from the site, so the bands aren't the only ones doing the work. Bands aren't charged for the marketing, advertising and publicity.

Whats the problem, if this site's initial fees and membership fees are being waved right now, why wouldn't a band put their music on an online music site that could give them plenty of playtime and publicity and possibly spark the interest of someone from a record label?

Its a win-win situation. Artists don't pay for anything, just upload their music and we sell it for you and get you free publicity. Why not give something a shot when its free?

 

[jazzrich9]

hey homegrown...

I understand where you're coming from, and understand where the dude telling you to go F yourself is coming from too.

The problem, on the facts is with the business structure. When you frame it the way you have, yes, you have a better payout FOR THE ARTIST, than the other systems, but you have a couple of things you need to think about.

1. itunes, napster and their ilk are dealing with the labels, who I promise you are getting a much bigger cut of that buck than the artist, you'd have to look into how much of that money itunes keeps for Steve Jobs, and how much they split with the labels, who admittedly have been in the business of screwing artists for a long time. Read this article to illustrate. I'm not saying that what your doing is bad, or a nasty business model, and I don't share my colleagues view that you should pop your own cherry,

Just trying to bring the facts to the table.

As a label, I think a 50/50 setup is pretty fair, where the label is actually covering most of the costs of producing the album and doing a lot of the marketing and the band is required to pimp themselves a whole lot with gigs and the like... I think the concern is more a "what are they getting for their 50%" and I don't think you don't have the answer, but you're getting into a very crowded market right now, and need to show with a business plan, how you plan on getting the kind of exposure, and size of database to compete with itunes/ napster / and the really evil folks over at Real.

Anyhow, I felt compelled to respond, because I do think there needs to be an indie distribution channel that can actually compete with the big boys... ie, what you're doing is noble, but the first folks you have to really sell on the idea are the artists. I'd even suggest some sort of reverse profit scheme, like the first hundred downloads are split 20/80 in the artists favor, then going to 50/50 or even something more favorable to you, once you've shown the artist results???

btw, I strongly recommend against ever charging 'initial fees, or membership fees' if your business model can't support itself with the profits from downloads, then you shouldn't be doing music downloads as a business.

Just some thoughts.

~peace and good luck.

 

[Axis]

i signed up. Hell why not it only takes a couple minutes to sign up and who knows maybe a little gas money can come out of it. As long as it stays free I'll stick with it

 

[JP_HomeGrown]

Greetings.

Hi, I'm JP and I'm working for HomeGrownVinyl.com, promoting the site. I'm also in a band, The Garys, which you can check out in my sig.

We're unabashedly anti-RIAA and anti-Clear Channel, and we think there is a market of musicians out there that share our position. You cannot get your album into Tower Records or Best Buy without being in cahoots with the Big 5. So what we are proposing is to skip the retailer and go straight to local CD shops, local radio stations, playing out, and building street cred. We would like to take care of the Internet distribution side of things for you, providing you a space where you can host MP3s for download with FULL STREAMING PREVIEWS, and a spot on our internet radio stations.

hey homegrown...

I understand where you're coming from, and understand where the dude telling you to go F yourself is coming from too.

Yeah, I'm a regular on a board somewhere else, so I understand Agent47's fury, but we're not spammers. I can promise you I'm a real person at the end of this email account.

The problem, on the facts is with the business structure. When you frame it the way you have, yes, you have a better payout FOR THE ARTIST, than the other systems, but you have a couple of things you need to think about.

1. itunes, napster and their ilk are dealing with the labels, who I promise you are getting a much bigger cut of that buck than the artist, you'd have to look into how much of that money itunes keeps for Steve Jobs, and how much they split with the labels, who admittedly have been in the business of screwing artists for a long time. Read this article to illustrate. I'm not saying that what your doing is bad, or a nasty business model, and I don't share my colleagues view that you should pop your own cherry,

Just trying to bring the facts to the table.

I read article, and it seems to hold true to what I've read about the industry. For a Big 5 act selling in BestBuy prices are broken down roughly: 50%=Distributor, 30-40%=Label 20-10%=artist, and if you're an unproven artist you're going to be on the lower end of this. We do deal with labels, but we prefer to work individually with artists, under the understanding that they must be their own PR machine.

As a label, I think a 50/50 setup is pretty fair, where the label is actually covering most of the costs of producing the album and doing a lot of the marketing and the band is required to pimp themselves a whole lot with gigs and the like... I think the concern is more a "what are they getting for their 50%" and I don't think you don't have the answer, but you're getting into a very crowded market right now, and need to show with a business plan, how you plan on getting the kind of exposure, and size of database to compete with itunes/ napster / and the really evil folks over at Real.

We are not a label, we're a distributor. When we work with a single artist, they act as their own label, they have to pimp themselves, which is key, they must really go out and play music live, and build a reputation.

However, we WILL be doing banner ads on major sites (ie pollstar, artistdirect) and promoting the site to both sellers and buyers. We will be advertising in local weekly newspapers around the country. We need want people to visit our site, just as our artists want people to visit our site. After all, we're in this together.

Also we will offer FULL STREAMING PREVIEWS of songs. Every song on every album. So you know exactly what you're getting. The best example of this is at www.flaminglips.com where you can listen to their latest release online... but if you want to listen to it in the car, or in your discman you'll have to buy it. That kind of bandwidth isn't cheap, but it is what will set us apart from the competition.

Also, we'll be streaming radio stations with appropriate genres and artists, so if you hear a song you like, you can click their profile and listen to THE ENTIRE ALBUM, again, something I hope will set us apart.

We will be handling the Credit Card transaction, which may not be a huge thing, but it is something to think about.

Another one of our main points is that we don't own the copyright, you do. If you stop using us for distribution you still own everything. If you sign onto an label that doesn't want to use us, we wish you nothing but the best of luck, in fact, we hope labels will use the site to scout for unsigned talent.

Anyhow, I felt compelled to respond, because I do think there needs to be an indie distribution channel that can actually compete with the big boys... ie, what you're doing is noble, but the first folks you have to really sell on the idea are the artists. I'd even suggest some sort of reverse profit scheme, like the first hundred downloads are split 20/80 in the artists favor, then going to 50/50 or even something more favorable to you, once you've shown the artist results???

btw, I strongly recommend against ever charging 'initial fees, or membership fees' if your business model can't support itself with the profits from downloads, then you shouldn't be doing music downloads as a business.

Just some thoughts.

~peace and good luck.

There are NO startup fees, the first post was worded incorrectly, we are not waiving startup fees, there are NONE. NO startup fees. All you need to signup are MP3s.

As I said earlier, we have no love for mainstream distribution of music. We would like to become a major competitor to them. However, with the nature of the internet... a network comprised of 2 nodes is not worth very much, but add a 3rd node and it grows exponentially... we need a community of users to show the Big 5 that they're not needed anymore.

If you have any questions, please email me at jp@homegrownvinyl.com

Thanks for reading this far! *whew*

 

[Homegrown Vinyl]

new message board

Hey Everyone,

I just wanted to let you all know that homegrownvinyl.com now has a message board where you can ask questions, submit feedback, list information in the classified section for gear/equipment and wanted musicians. It also has a place for shameless self promotion, forums to ask questions and receive answers about the recording industry and distribution, home recording and band promotion.

come visit the message board at http://www.homegrownvinyl.com/phpBB2/index.php

or jump from the website at http://homegrownvinyl.com to the message board

-Corinne

 

[lykwydchykyn]

I've gotta say, as someone who's tried to sell my work many times: if you can bring in the sales while I just make the music, that's worth at least 50%. Until you've tried to sell your own CD, you have no idea how hard it is to get people to buy.

That's provided, of course, that you can do effective marketing.

 

[lykwydchykyn]

I'm a little concerned about the terms of use.... could you clarify some things?

2. HOMEGROWN VINYL may monitor your use of Homegrownvinyl.com, and may freely use and disclose any information and materials received from you or collected through your use of Homegrownvinyl.com for any lawful reason or purpose. HOMEGROWN VINYL may remove from Homegrownvinyl.com any postings which HOMEGROWN VINYL deems inappropriate or unsuitable, without notice or liability.

In light of this point, do you have a privacy statement of any kind?

and

13. By posting messages, uploading files, inputting data or engaging in any other form of communication (individually or collectively "Communications") on or to Homegrownvinyl.com, You hereby grant to HOMEGROWN VINYL a perpetual, worldwide, irrevocable, unrestricted, non-exclusive, royalty free license to use, copy, license, sublicense, adapt, distribute, display, publicly perform, reproduce, transmit, modify, edit and otherwise exploit such Communications, in all media now known or hereafter developed. You hereby waive all rights to any claim against HOMEGROWN VINYL for any alleged or actual infringements of any proprietary rights, rights of privacy and publicity, moral rights, and rights of attribution in connection with such Communications.

If i read this correctly (and it's entirely possible I don't), any song I upload to your site is essentially yours to do with what you want royalty-free forever ("irrevocable"). I understand you need some release of copyright control to be able to host and sell the files on the artists behalf, but the term "irrevocable" scares me a bit...

 

[jazzrich9]

ok,

putting on my lawyer hat for a minute:

I read the entire contract, and it is a form contract, and it does have some unenforceable terms in it.

One of those is their indemnity clause which reads in plain English, if you sue us, you agree to pay for our attorney's (common) If we sue you, you agree to pay for our attorney's (unlikely to be upheld.)

But, I'll get to why this isn't a big deal in a minute, first of all, the clauses that are stressing you out, let's go term by term:


perpetual, worldwide, irrevocable, unrestricted, non-exclusive,

If you upload a file, and it goes peer to peer at some point, there is a practical impossibility of your telling them to pull it from everyone's computer who has it in their shared folder... If they don't put this in like this, they'd be screwed, plain and simple... they have to have that clause... unrestricted just means that you can't say... "I don't want anyone in Algeria to have it" which would be an impossible request on a P2P network. non-exclusive means that you can give your files to anyone else you want, that means THEY can't say, we are the only ones allowed to distribue... ie that protects you!

royalty free license to use, copy,

All P2P stuff, and basically, you agree to not charge us each time someone downloads the file outside what we already agreed you'd get.


license, sublicense, adapt,

This one is a little more sketchy, because licensing and subliscening while probably in the terms for similar reasons, could mean that they could sell your mp3 to a filmmaker to put in his movie, and you agree to not go after said film maker for extra money, or more importantly to sue them for doing so... Adapt: probably there if they want to use a clip of your music in an ad (think the itunes ads) and don't want to have to deal with getting sued over cutting your clip to 30 seconds... more realistically if they have a 'sample the track before you buy' feature, then they don't want to get sued for having a 15 second sample of your piece up there... but it "could" get dicey...


distribute, display, publicly perform, reproduce, transmit, - "same stuff as above"

modify, edit and - again like adapt, same gray areas

otherwise exploit such Communications, - yeah its a catch all, but they didn't say for profit, which leads me to believe that in the real world if they were making money off of your tracks above and beyond the other agreement (the one you agree to when you work out who gets how much for each download) you would probably have recourse.


in all media now known or hereafter developed. - this makes sense, because, when mp6 becomes the new craze, and your tracks and their db isn't used because all they have is lowly old mp3s, then everyone is served by them being able to convert the file format to meet the trend.


As to your first point, homegrown does have a privacy policy on their site, and they do reserve the right to sell the info to marketers. This is very very common though, and they offer an opt out for their customers.

Like I said, the irrevocable is a matter of practicality especially if the go P2P, it simply wouldn't be in their power to pull the song.

Now, onto why even the most aggregious terms in this contract are "ok"

http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

http://www.info.apple.com/usen/itunes/terms.html

Just two examples because I'm lazy today, anyhow the point is, form contracts and click through contracts are just the way business is done on the web... and yes there are some unenforceable terms in them, but when you're dealing with potentially millions of customers, millions of people who could potentially sue your company, you need to have a contract in place that protects you thoroughly. My point is, the legaleze is just that, and I wouldn't fault any company for following similar business practices of the rest of the industry that they're in... its just how business is, and the reality in court is, if you have a cause of action, the court will look at the contract, but not throw a case out because of it, instead they'll look at it with the "would any reasonable person have agreed to this" and go from there.

I'm not condoning or disparaging the contract, its just that a form contract, and one that contains fairly common terms for the industry at that.

Just my opinion, now taking off the lawyer hat, going back to the mixer

 

[distortedrumble]

very interesting...I'll have to sit back on that one for a while. it does sound pretty good though.


and the idea of pimping myself by playing a show? that sounds like some ass wipe saying from some ego driven anti-establishment indie artist who thinks that because he picked up a guitar, people should buy his stuff and he shouldnt have to play a show because hes too good for that

 

[grn]

I'm not a big fan of the site design... to me it looks unprofessional. That is a key factor in me agreeing to anything.

 

[Homegrown Vinyl]

When we created the site, we wanted the site to be easy to navigate for artists uploading their music and album covers, and also for people who scour the database to buy music (when that phase launches). I think the design of homegrownvinyl.com exemplifies that.

We've brought in a graphic designer and have two electrical engineers who worked on the creation and design for months to get things going, so there are professionals behind the scenes.

We have a bit of a "punk" feel to the site with the colors and font choices, which we understand might not drawn the attention of certain people, but if you don't like it, then that is completley your preference.

However the phrase, as corny as it is, "don't judge a book by it's cover," comes to mind. The look of something often times sways people to make unsubstantiated assumptions or decisions, while they might miss out on the content or in this case, what our business can offer for you as a musician or someone looking to buy music.

If you take the time to read the company information, scour the site, or open an account and take a look around.. maybe you'll like the set up a little more. Also, If you would like me to send you a company newsletter so you can get a better feel of the business, please let me know.

-Corinne

 

[boingoman]

When we created the site, we wanted the site to be easy to navigate for artists uploading their music and album covers, and also for people who scour the database to buy music (when that phase launches). I think the design of homegrownvinyl.com exemplifies that.

We've brought in a graphic designer and have two electrical engineers who worked on the creation and design for months to get things going, so there are professionals behind the scenes.

We have a bit of a "punk" feel to the site with the colors and font choices, which we understand might not drawn the attention of certain people, but if you don't like it, then that is completley your preference.

However the phrase, as corny as it is, "don't judge a book by it's cover," comes to mind. The look of something often times sways people to make unsubstantiated assumptions or decisions, while they might miss out on the content or in this case, what our business can offer for you as a musician or someone looking to buy music.

If you take the time to read the company information, scour the site, or open an account and take a look around.. maybe you'll like the set up a little more. Also, If you would like me to send you a company newsletter so you can get a better feel of the business, please let me know.

-Corinne

Well, that takes care of the graphics issue

What about the long list of legal concerns in the post before that? Those may be of more concern......

 

[randyfromde]

That's quite a deal you are running for the consumer, offering allow them to "browse our catalog and buy songs for .50cents a piece".

 

[lykwydchykyn]

Thanks for the reply, jazzrich; I appreciate your insight. I'd still like to hear a reaction from the source, so to speak.


I understand about the issue of P2P getting ahold of the song and so forth, but the way the contract reads to me, the license given to homegrownvinyl.com is irrevocable. I mean, any time you publish music these days you're going to run the chance of it getting put on P2P and distributed illegally around the web, but as for the LEGAL right to distribute the work... I don't see why that should need to be irrevocable just because it might get pirated.

If the license is irrevocable, what happens if (Heaven forbid) I sign with a label and want to use that material. Or if I sell the recording to a music library. Does HGV still have a right to distribute the material? That could cause problems.

I don't know if you're a lawyer, Jazzrich, but I'm not. Even so, it seems clear to me that point 13 would give HGV every right to, say, license the music I upload to a music library without telling me or paying me any compensation. That's just one example. Not that I"m saying my work is so great, or that they're the kind of people who would do a dishonest thing like that. I'm just saying, the way it reads to me I'm giving them the right to do that.

I'm not a naive kid; I've clicked through my share of user agreements, sold and licensed my music, even signed a fairly hefty record deal a few years back (I got a lawyer for that one). These terms don't seem standard to me and I want some clarification before I'd consider signing up or recommending this site to anyone else.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

However the phrase, as corny as it is, "don't judge a book by it's cover," comes to mind. The look of something often times sways people to make unsubstantiated assumptions or decisions, while they might miss out on the content or in this case, what our business can offer for you as a musician or someone looking to buy music.

If you take the time to read the company information, scour the site, or open an account and take a look around.. maybe you'll like the set up a little more. Also, If you would like me to send you a company newsletter so you can get a better feel of the business, please let me know.

-Corinne

Sorry - that doesn't really wash........ any marketing material for a business generally plays a large role in determining the impression you give to the public. If you want to cater to a professional clientele, you sure as hell better have a professional-looking site. If you want to cater only to punk rockers, then I suppose you can do what you want........ point is, you can't hide behind a trite saying like "can't judge a book..." because people WILL judge a business by its cover (ie, it's advertisment and marketing), no matter what.

If you're trying to cater to a large cross-section of clients, then your site should reflect a clean polished look that's easy to read and navigate.

 

[Axis]

Sorry - that doesn't really wash........ any marketing material for a business generally plays a large role in determining the impression you give to the public. If you want to cater to a professional clientele, you sure as heel better have a professional-looking site. If you want to cater only to punk rockers, then I suppose you can do what you want........ point is, you can't hide behind a trite saying like "can't judge a book..." because people WILL judge a business by its cover, no matter what.

If you're trying to cater to a large cross-section of clients, then your site should reflect a clean polished look that's easy to read and navigate.

he got you on that one

 

[JP_HomeGrown]

Thanks for the reply, jazzrich; I appreciate your insight. I'd still like to hear a reaction from the source, so to speak.

THANKS AGAIN Jazzrich, you da man. I'll be in contact the the people that speak legalese, and get back to you guys about your questions soon.

If the license is irrevocable, what happens if (Heaven forbid) I sign with a label and want to use that material. Or if I sell the recording to a music library. Does HGV still have a right to distribute the material? That could cause problems.

I will have to check with the legalese people again, but one of our main selling points is that an artists can take their material with them if they join a label that doesn't want to work with us.

"Seller will maintain copyright for all music uploaded to site. Seller may at any time withdraw all material from the site. Distributor reserves the right to use the bands name and site statistics for promotional purposes indefinitely, but all rights to the music are owned by the Seller. You own your music, if you get a record deal you can take your music with you. We simply ask that we can say “we knew you when”.

I don't know if you're a lawyer, Jazzrich, but I'm not. Even so, it seems clear to me that point 13 would give HGV every right to, say, license the music I upload to a music library without telling me or paying me any compensation. That's just one example. Not that I"m saying my work is so great, or that they're the kind of people who would do a dishonest thing like that. I'm just saying, the way it reads to me I'm giving them the right to do that.

I'm not a naive kid; I've clicked through my share of user agreements, sold and licensed my music, even signed a fairly hefty record deal a few years back (I got a lawyer for that one). These terms don't seem standard to me and I want some clarification before I'd consider signing up or recommending this site to anyone else.

Thanks again for letting us know where are weak points are in this document. We're still new, and looking for little things like that.

JP

 

[JP_HomeGrown]

That's quite a deal you are running for the consumer, offering allow them to "browse our catalog and buy songs for .50cents a piece".

I see it as similar to going to your favorite indie record store and asking them to let you listen before you buy. There's a store down the street from me that lets people listen to ANYTHING before they buy, and they get more business because of it. We're like a online listening station.