The Everything "EZDrummer" and "Superior Drums" thread.
- Thread starter Chili
- Start date
I contacted toon track, waiting for their response
DM60
Well-known member
This is a guess as it happens to me. If you are using a General MIDI file that wasn't generated for EZD, then you may have to move the hits to the corresponding MIDI note value that matches EZD (even drums use the note values).
If you are using pads to generate, then you will need to map the pads to the corresponding EZD instrument (Kick Drum, Snare etc.) I use several drum samplers, EZD being one. I pulled some files off the I-net and had to move them to their correct note position. These files were in GM Midi, which EZD doesn't follow. I did get some off Groove Monkey and they already had EZD files.
On the mixer, I am not sure what it means by channel as usually a channel is to communicate with MIDI 1-16, percussion usually being 10
(Ex. I have three pieces of equipment and I want to route track one to drums, channel 10, Synthesizer sound to sound module two on channel 2, and piano to sound module three on channel 3). That way I can control what equipment get what MIDI signals.
But, that was the old days, I don't think it means as much today, but that is what MIDI channels mean. I am not sure in the mixer in EZD what channels mean.
Chili
Site Moderator
That means you only have one track in Sonar assigned to EZD; track 1, the kick drum. You need to assign more tracks in Sonar. I forget how to do that. Can you search for a tutorial on YouTube. I might have learned how to do it that way.
There are other Sonar users on this site, they just aren't popping up with advice.
first waiting an answer as to why the kits. rolls and fills, are no compatible! They asked me for a sample saying they never heard this before, which seems odd to me. Im finding I have to do nearly as much editing to get the original ez tracks I already programed to play correctly in the rock expansion pack, than it is to program it over from scratch.
Tom Toms that are ride cymbals, cymbals that are tom toms, light drum rolls that sound like machine gun fire in the expansion. I like the sounds of the kits, but Most of your programming is going to be with the first ez drummer, it has the most options. Weird
Tom Toms that are ride cymbals, cymbals that are tom toms, light drum rolls that sound like machine gun fire in the expansion. I like the sounds of the kits, but Most of your programming is going to be with the first ez drummer, it has the most options. Weird
CFox
Banned
Greg, you got an E-kit yet ? I want some real midi drumming to play through my Addictive Drums.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Right....you have to set the drum map to the match the EZ kit notes. Toontrack has default maps that match their layouts. If you use some other maps, then you can end up with toms instead of cymbals, etc...etc...etc.
I primarily use Superior Drummer, which plays all the EZ packs correctly....but in my DAW, I have to pull up the correct drum map in the MIDI editor. At this point, I've already created my go-to maps, using the Toontrack default maps as a starting point. Also, not all the Toontrack kits have identical maps. Like....if I pull up the Latin pack, it's not going to match up with a basic rock kit map. Some packs use the same basic map, others have their own that comes with the pack....or you can build your map to suit your needs and/or reassign/add notes in the player (not sure if EZ lets you, but you can with SD).
CFox
Banned
Greg is an A-hole but a good drummer.
I was talking about an e kit.
I was talking about Addictive Drums.
DM60
Well-known member
Not sure anyone knows this, I just learned it. If you want to use EZ's drum patterns, go to the open Groove section, find a loop you like, drag it to the MIDI drum track and you can change the MIDI file from there. It will also give you an idea where everything is located. Make sure you turn off the MIDI player.
Sorry, I just purchased EZD and took me a day or two to figure that out. Made a big difference to me.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
With Superior Drummer....that's what I do. I go to the grooves section of the player, and there I can audition stuff to find something that will give me the basic pattern I am after at a given tempo.
I just grab-drag-drop the grooves into my DAW MIDI editor, and then I see all the patterns and the notes assigned, etc.
In the MIDI editor, I have options to select a drum map to use. Not all drum maps will fit a given player. For the EZ/SD stuff, you can get in the ballpark with General MIDI map...but Toontrack provides their default map, plus any specific maps that might come with a specific expansion pack.
I have maybe eight Toontrack drum maps....most of the time I use a default map that I tweaked to taste....but for some of the packs you need to use the specific one Toontrack provided, other wise you have sort it out and remap notes if you want to use some other map or create your own. I just don't want to waste time with that, so that's why I set up my own for my DAW and I can get going a lot quicker. Then if I add stuff that isn't Toontrack specific (like some groove from Groove Monkey or some other source)...I just make the adjustment after I drop it in the editor so that the notes/beats line up correctly and play back the right thing.
I just grab-drag-drop the grooves into my DAW MIDI editor, and then I see all the patterns and the notes assigned, etc.
In the MIDI editor, I have options to select a drum map to use. Not all drum maps will fit a given player. For the EZ/SD stuff, you can get in the ballpark with General MIDI map...but Toontrack provides their default map, plus any specific maps that might come with a specific expansion pack.
I have maybe eight Toontrack drum maps....most of the time I use a default map that I tweaked to taste....but for some of the packs you need to use the specific one Toontrack provided, other wise you have sort it out and remap notes if you want to use some other map or create your own. I just don't want to waste time with that, so that's why I set up my own for my DAW and I can get going a lot quicker. Then if I add stuff that isn't Toontrack specific (like some groove from Groove Monkey or some other source)...I just make the adjustment after I drop it in the editor so that the notes/beats line up correctly and play back the right thing.
yeah but if you use midi, dont you get midi sounds, and not the kits that came with ex drummer? I thought the benefit of using it was it doesnt need to be tracked it all, it can be there virtually and you never know it;s there
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
MIDI tracks trigger the EZ/SD samples.
I first find the kit I like for a given song....then I work up the groove in the MIDI Drum Editor, which is playing back the sample from EZ/SD in real time. Once I have my drum track worked out, I then create my own final MIDI track with my drums.
Then I load that and when loading, I tell SD to break it our as individual audio files in my DAW....that way, I am now seeing the actual drum audio tracks, as individual tracks (Kick, Snare, Toms, etc)....and with those drum audio track I now add my own record tracks.
I don't ever record against EZ/SD as a virtual MIDI track...but I do save the initial MIDI tracks as a separate project, that way, if I get to a later stage in the tracking/mixing, and I realize that something is not working, I can go back to the MIDI track project folder, make my edits, and then spit out another bunch of fresh drum audio track and replace the other ones.
Sure, you can just leave the EZ/SD stuff as virtual drums, always playing back the samples in real time...but now you're just eating up a lot of your processing power, which I would rather save for other things. With the EZ/SD broken out into actual audio tracks, the EZ/SD player is no longer involved during playbacks.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yeah, I got a bunch of stuff from Groove Monkey when I first started messing around with EZ/SD....but since then, I've purchased a bunch of MIDI packs also from Toontrack. There's a million available grooves in all kinds of styles, and most of them are done real well (none of that rigid, programmed feel)...so it doesn't take as much work to tweak them and add in the fills/accents to fit the song.
I find that it's how you do the fills/accents that will really set the MIDI stuff apart and keep it from sounding "sequenced". Most of the Toontrack stuff was done by real drummers playing real drum grooves on real drum kits, and then they converted that to MIDI grooves...so it wasn't someone just drawing beats into a Drum Editor or tapping them out with their fingers on a pad.
I had my drummer buddy over, and let him listen to a drum track I was working on…and I didn’t say anything other than to ask him how he liked it. He had this sorta confused look on his face, ‘cuz he knew that he didn’t play the drums, so he said they sounded great, but I know he was wondering who I had over to play the drums if it wasn’t him.
I then showed him the Superior Drummer stuff and he was impressed with the sound quality and the grooves I had put together.
I still like to record drums with him playing in my studio….but it’s his own fault I got into EZ/SD, ‘cuz he was always hard to schedule for a tracking session….so I was waiting for him on some songs. This way, I can get things going, since I don’t like to track any other instruments until I have the drums to play against… and now I can have the drums worked out so he knows where I want certain accents/fills/crashes…rather than me having to verbally explain it during the tracking sessions.
DM60
Well-known member
Yeah, I have got a bunch of stuff from Groove Monkey when I first started messing around with EZ/SD....but since then, I've purchased a bunch of MIDI packs also from Toontrack. There's a million available grooves in all kinds of styles, and some of them are done real well (none of that rigid, programmed feel)...so it doesn't take as much work to tweak them and add in the fills/accents to fit the song.
I find that it's how you do the fills/accents that will really set the MIDI stuff apart and keep it from sounding "sequenced". Most of the Toontrack stuff was done by real drummers playing real drum grooves on real drum kits, and then they converted that to MIDI grooves...so it wasn't someone just drawing beats into a Drum Editor or tapping them out with their fingers on a pad.
I had my drummer buddy over, and let him listen to a drum track I was working on…and I didn’t say anything other than to ask him how he liked it. He gad this sorta confused look on his face, ‘cuz he knew that he didn’t play the drums, so he said they sounded great, but I know he was wondering who I had over to play the drums if it wasn’t him.
I then showed him the Superior Drummer stuff and he was impressed with the sound quality and the grooves I had put together.
I still like to record drums with him playing in my studio….but it’s his own fault I got into EZ/SD, ‘cuz he was always hard to schedule for a tracking session….so I was waiting for him on some songs. This way, I can get things going, since I don’t like to track any other instruments until I have the drums to play against… and now I can have the drums worked out so he knows where I want certain accents/fills/crashes…rather than me having to verbally explain it during the tracking sessions.
I don't play drums, but I know enough about software to work around that deficiency. I have a DD-65 drum set sitting on a snare stand (the drum machine is made to use the snare stand). I take the basic kit that I get from the EZD groove, then in the software, it allows me to overdub the MIDI track. Which means I just add to it every time I record without removing the old. I then add to the file with the drum machine so it sound like a person (not a professional, just a person), when finish, quantize cause I can't drum and the results are sound pretty good. At least it gives it more feel.
If you see the MIDI Overdub setting (or something similar), you might try it, makes it faster and actually makes programming the drums part, huh, fun!
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I've done the "tap it out" approach....and I'm more comfortable with listening to and seeing the MIDI groove mapped out in the drum editor. I can then easily add/adjust fills and stuff and work the beats as needed.
I know a lot of guys like to tap out the beats...but my mindset adapts easier to the mapped out groove. It's probably from the few years I spent doing MIDI sequencing back in the Cubase Atari days in the late '80s/early '90s. I was sequencing a lot fo stuff then, not just drums....but back then the sequenced drums all sounded like shit....lousy samples, lousy control...or a LOT of work to make them better.
With the stuff they have these days (Slate, AD, EZ, SD...) the samples sound great, so it's just about getting the grooves right...however someone prefers to do it...tap, trigger, sequence....
I know a lot of guys like to tap out the beats...but my mindset adapts easier to the mapped out groove. It's probably from the few years I spent doing MIDI sequencing back in the Cubase Atari days in the late '80s/early '90s. I was sequencing a lot fo stuff then, not just drums....but back then the sequenced drums all sounded like shit....lousy samples, lousy control...or a LOT of work to make them better.
With the stuff they have these days (Slate, AD, EZ, SD...) the samples sound great, so it's just about getting the grooves right...however someone prefers to do it...tap, trigger, sequence....
DM60
Well-known member
Yes, my first sequencer the used dots for drums, notes symbols for the instruments, for the drums, the bigger the dot, the harder the hit. Then 15 years fast forward, I see the new editors I am like WTF! Totally lost.
I can't seem to edit a good pattern with a mouse, so using the pads and this method is making the next batch sound much less mechanical.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
The last time I did any sequencing was like 10-15 years ago....then last year I finally decided to start messing with EZ (which I had for a couple of years, just never installed it).
I was trying to get my drummer to come over and do some tracking, and he was busy...busy...busy....so I figured I might as well install EZ and see what the deal was.
Once I heard the drum samples, I realized that it had promise, but I wanted more samples and more control...so I got SD right after that, and then went into the DAW and the MIDI Editor, and at first it was the same for me as for your....I was trying to get my head back into it and at first wasn't comfy, but I just stuck with it and did a couple of drum tracks, and after that I was back in the groove (no pun intended).
So I got more expansion packs and then also some MIDI groove packs, and now it's pretty straightforward for me to work in the MIDI Editor.
I have my basic drum maps and my drum track project template that I use to start each new set of drum tracks, so that way I can just focus on the grooves and not have to think about the MIDI crap each time. I keep all the drums on the same notes, same position in the MIDI editor...and it's pretty smooth.
I've looked at a couple of small pad keayboards....which could be good for doing the fills more rapidly, but just haven't gotten one yet. It's not a show stopper.
I was trying to get my drummer to come over and do some tracking, and he was busy...busy...busy....so I figured I might as well install EZ and see what the deal was.
Once I heard the drum samples, I realized that it had promise, but I wanted more samples and more control...so I got SD right after that, and then went into the DAW and the MIDI Editor, and at first it was the same for me as for your....I was trying to get my head back into it and at first wasn't comfy, but I just stuck with it and did a couple of drum tracks, and after that I was back in the groove (no pun intended).
So I got more expansion packs and then also some MIDI groove packs, and now it's pretty straightforward for me to work in the MIDI Editor.
I have my basic drum maps and my drum track project template that I use to start each new set of drum tracks, so that way I can just focus on the grooves and not have to think about the MIDI crap each time. I keep all the drums on the same notes, same position in the MIDI editor...and it's pretty smooth.
I've looked at a couple of small pad keayboards....which could be good for doing the fills more rapidly, but just haven't gotten one yet. It's not a show stopper.
DM60
Well-known member
Nice thing about Ableton is it has sampler tools. Makes it pretty easy to go and find sounds and then map to a customer built kit. Problem is, it takes work. So between trying to record and mixing, creating tones (drums or instruments) becomes a bit overwhelming. But like you, I am determined to get this to progress with my objective. Make interesting decent music.