The Con

[dwarf]

Yeah I can see what you guys are getting at, I always take the safe option as I don't want to end up in the same position my dad did, he traveled Australia worked crap job to crap job in his teens. I always figured just get a nice wad of cash and some investments and then go travel.

The only reason I wanted to go to the con was to, like some one mentioned above. Jam with people and get my name out there, so when it's like "oh we need a jazz guitarist" (I've become flaunted by jazz latley and love it) they'll call me, tha also puts extra dough in my pocket.

Oh well I'm going to start up a band (origionals) round here and try get a few gigs just for the fun of it.

one more thing. Constantly I am reminded of the song Sultans of Swing "But bharry doesn't mind if he doesn't, make the scene (bwah bwah bwah) he's got a day time job he's doin' allright.

Thanks guys

 

[fraserhutch]

That's just reverse snobbery.

A buddy of mine joined a blues band only to discover they were music students and were playing it to music charts. He said adios to them when they told him they wanted him to play his solos written out to their sheet music as well....no improvising on the Blues? WTF!!

 

[mikemorgan]

One of the most successful guitarists I know has been playing the Nashville scene for many years. He is the lead guitarist for a well-seasoned Nashville star. He also is a regular on the Grand Ole Opry. He is married and has two kids.

On a trip home to see family, he sat in on one of our gigs. His chops were both tasteful, and jaw dropping. He can't read music at all, but does pretty well with the lead sheets he is given. He was so good, I couldn't bring myself to even play. I felt like a child.

After the gig, we talked about his gig in Nashville. He doesn't like to brag, but he did let me in on how much he made that year playing the guitar. $51,000. I admitted that was a lot of money, but didn't want to tell him how I felt about it. I thought it was kinda sad to think that someone who has truly devoted his life, and I mean his LIFE, to music was treated so poorly by his employers. I know how hard it is to raise kids on 50 grand a year, without benefits of any kind. Like I said earlier, unless that's your name in lights, you are a pawn. The music biz ain't for everybody.

 

[Ironklad Audio]

retail sucks, kid

now go get a van

and some beer

and if you don't wanna sleep on other people's couches, get a van big enough to hold one, and sleep on your own

 

[Ironklad Audio]

After the gig, we talked about his gig in Nashville. He doesn't like to brag, but he did let me in on how much he made that year playing the guitar. $51,000....I thought it was kinda sad to think that someone who has truly devoted his life, and I mean his LIFE, to music was treated so poorly by his employers. I know how hard it is to raise kids on 50 grand a year, without benefits of any kind.

whatever dude. 50 g's a year, living in tennessee, is MORE than enough to get by

i make half of that living in one of the most expensive places in the country, and am currently raising a daughter of my own, and would kill to be making $51,000/year right now. and no, i don't get benefits either.

and the money i do make is in retail...so someone tell the kid who started this topic to heed the advice from my last post, and stay away from that particular line of work and start playing guitar more

 

[ggunn]

There is one other dimension. For a while I made a meager living in the music biz, with a cover band playing frat parties, corporate Christmas parties, and weddings. We made pretty good money, but the music we had to play was lowest common denominator stuff - YMCA, Play That Funky Music White Boy, Brick House, etc. I quit the project and went back to school, and got a technical degree. Now I've got a good job, one that challenges me daily and pays well, and I don't mind at all going to work every day. I built a house with a studio/rehearsal space in what was the garage, and I play every day. And I have health insurance.

I am now in a group that is original plus a few highly adapted "B side" covers. It may never make a dime, but that's not important; everyone in the band makes a decent living with their day jobs, and that frees us to play the music we love without having to compromise it with economics. Musically speaking, I am far happier now than I was when I was paying my bills with music.

Everyone charts his/her own course through all this, and one person's approach may not work for anyone else, but I've gotta say that I am happy with the choices I have made.

 

[dwarf]

Keep 'em comin' I'd love to hear more.

 

[dwarf]

Oh just one other thing I made the realisation today that I could spend the time I'm at school 'bout 7 hours a day practicing, once I finish year 12. That way I could also keep my job.

 

[ggunn]

Oh just one other thing I made the realisation today that I could spend the time I'm at school 'bout 7 hours a day practicing, once I finish year 12. That way I could also keep my job.

Along the "many are called but few are chosen" line: If you throw all of your energy into pursuing a career in music, but are not one of the chosen ones, then what? If you doom yourself to a lifetime of crap jobs because you didn't get yourself educated, you've only yourself to blame. Think past high school.

 

[dwarf]

Along the "many are called but few are chosen" line: If you throw all of your energy into pursuing a career in music, but are not one of the chosen ones, then what? If you doom yourself to a lifetime of crap jobs because you didn't get yourself educated, you've only yourself to blame. Think past high school.

Sorry the correct use of commers was not used. I'm still at school but after I finish, (end of year 12) the time I had spent at school can be used for practice, and advancing my career. Be it in retail or music. or both

 

[rayc]

There are very few fully pro musicians in Australia. Most are semi at best & have to hold down a day job or part time/casual work to survive.
The music is a love job.
TRY the uni thing. If you don't like it, can't cope, run out of money move on.
The social life, cross fertilisation (NOT sex) and brain strain might be good for you.
A Con is often a scary place but it serves a purpose. It might serve yours.
Other than that get a trade & play after hours.

 

[mikeh]

The point about what happens if not one the chosen few is very real and hits home very much for me.

My dad was a big band drummer and played with people like Jimmy Dorsey (back in the days when big bands worked a lot). When that dried up he had to work a series of crap jobs and play in polka bands. While I had no choice but to go into music (given that it appears to have been in my genes - and given that watching burrning jazz jam sessions and sitting behind the bandstand were a normal part of my youth) - part of me always thought about what happens when I get older.

When I went full time (at 15) I had a plan that I would had x-amount of regional success by age 18 and x-amount of natiaonal success by age 25 etc. As I approached 25 and realized it was not happening I decided to pursue a more normal career path. I still play music every day, gig and record as much as I choose and enjoy music more now than when I did it full time.

When I was in my 20's I saw guys who were in there 30s and 40s slepping on floors and couches between gigs and I did not want that to be my life.

Also, the point about full time cats (like the Nashville guy someone mentioned) is well taken. I know several people who make maybe $40,000-$50,000 per year as musicains. However they constantly travel (which eats into the $50,000 big time) and they have to pay for insurance etc (a huge expense) and by the time they actually net out they barely survive day to day. Granted, they get to make a living playing music - but every one of them indicates that much of the joy has diminished because of the daily grind.

If that is someone's calling or life choice - God bless em' - but anyone thinking about going the full time musician route really needs to 1) go into it with thier eys open and 2) have a back-up plan.

 

[ggunn]

The point about what happens if not one the chosen few is very real and hits home very much for me.

My dad was a big band drummer and played with people like Jimmy Dorsey (back in the days when big bands worked a lot). When that dried up he had to work a series of crap jobs and play in polka bands. While I had no choice but to go into music (given that it appears to have been in my genes - and given that watching burrning jazz jam sessions and sitting behind the bandstand were a normal part of my youth) - part of me always thought about what happens when I get older.

When I went full time (at 15) I had a plan that I would had x-amount of regional success by age 18 and x-amount of natiaonal success by age 25 etc. As I approached 25 and realized it was not happening I decided to pursue a more normal career path. I still play music every day, gig and record as much as I choose and enjoy music more now than when I did it full time.

When I was in my 20's I saw guys who were in there 30s and 40s slepping on floors and couches between gigs and I did not want that to be my life.

Also, the point about full time cats (like the Nashville guy someone mentioned) is well taken. I know several people who make maybe $40,000-$50,000 per year as musicains. However they constantly travel (which eats into the $50,000 big time) and they have to pay for insurance etc (a huge expense) and by the time they actually net out they barely survive day to day. Granted, they get to make a living playing music - but every one of them indicates that much of the joy has diminished because of the daily grind.

If that is someone's calling or life choice - God bless em' - but anyone thinking about going the full time musician route really needs to 1) go into it with thier eys open and 2) have a back-up plan.

Well said, and here's another thing...

In times of plenty, when there are jobs galore and the cost of living is low, our society can afford for many of its members to make their living having fun. In tougher times, not so much. I believe that we are headed for tougher times, but whether I'm right or wrong, it's something that needs to be taken into account.

 

[Ed Dixon]

Making a living as a performing musician is very difficult. Many try and very very few succeed. Those that do succeed sometimes find it difficult to keep it going more than a few years.

As a comparison, consider football or rock stars. How many can stay first string for longer than 5-10 years. Most people work from about the time they are about 20 until the time they are perhaps in their 60’s. That’s 40+ years.

The most likely long-term jobs in music likely do not involve performance, but other efforts such as band directors, recording engineers, booking agents, advertisement, business and marketing, and others.

Your best bet is to first get a good marketable college level education. Marketable means that when you graduate, you will have one or more firms standing in line to hire you.

Many find that the best way to pursue music is as a part time effort, that is constrained somewhat by a full time professional career in something else.

Ed

 

[chazba]

My advice is to work on your charm so you can get a girlfriend with a good job. Be very picky in this matter, as it will profoundly affect your lifestyle. Also, make sure that she's not real smart. That will help with longevity issues due to late hours and drug/alcohol abuse.


chazba

 

[mikeh]

chazba (oh wise one)

You have provided the true solution - if only I had your wisdom when I was still young enough to actually find a young, cute, rich and dumb girlfriend!!!

 

[AndyK12]

Musician money.

Hi,

I'm not sure where everyone is getting their numbers, but a top engineer in Toronto told me the session guys he uses make in the six dollar figures. I think at the top echelon you're making nice money.

Andy.

 

[ggunn]

Hi,

I'm not sure where everyone is getting their numbers, but a top engineer in Toronto told me the session guys he uses make in the six dollar figures. I think at the top echelon you're making nice money.

Andy.

Those would be the chosen few, the Joe Montana's and Jerry Rice's of music players. What happens to the also-rans? Better stay in school and get that degree.

 

[AndyK12]

Top session guys.

I'm not saying everyone is going to make 1

 

[fraserhutch]

I think the num,ber of session players making that type of money in any metropolicatin area could be counted on one hand.

And when you think about it, for the top echelon of a profession (session cats), that's still peanuts.

Hi,

I'm not sure where everyone is getting their numbers, but a top engineer in Toronto told me the session guys he uses make in the six dollar figures. I think at the top echelon you're making nice money.

Andy.