The 'ambiance in a mix.. on different playback systems

[mixsit]

Obviously there's the whole set of variables between playback systems, the crux of the subject of mixes translating..
One thing that strikes a little odd sometimes and I don't quite understand, is that it seems on car systems for example ambiances, delays, verbs' can be more forward.
Could that be primarily the generally more ragged or in some frequencies forward upper mid responses vs a more balanced monitoring condition perhaps? Different resonances going on? 'Tone balances, compressions translating, I get, no struggle there. This.. Real curious.

 

[miroslav]

Maybe it's due to the surround speakers in most cars....?

 

[mixsit]

Well, I' have sorta considered that, and the 'box size with my van-- pasenger' style so not a bare metal. But then I've noticed it in our Outback, and other cars so.. I don't know.

 

[mixsit]

There is something there though- in the mids? Don't know if you've used AKG 240M's..? How you can't eq' in the sound like that onto your speakers. So maybe it's a similar thing.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Anything to do with being off centre?
Just a stab.

 

[mixsit]

Anything to do with being off centre?
Just a stab.

Nah I doubt it.
I've learned where for example a mix can sound pretty good when the system's (relatively) flat and tight, on a boomy loose-bass speaker it can turn to mud. Lesson- clean it up a little more than I would have.
There's something about shorter delay, mid and smaller ambiance that I'm finding tricky. Finding that line between balanced and oops too much.
Maybe I should experiment with some odd eq on the mains, or alternate speakers.

 

[Farview]

Yes, having a mid-forward sound can/will bring up reverb and delay, especially on vocals.

You will never get the mixes to sound exactly the same everywhere, and you can't be responsible for how any potential listener has their stereo set up. The best you can do is make it sound decent on a few nice sounding systems that you have access to. Also compare them to commercial CDs of a similar style to see if you can spot the difference between that and your mixes.

When you listen to commercial CDs on a bad system, you tend to blame the system because it's a commercial release. If your stuff sounds bad on a bad system, since you have control over the mix, you tend to try to fix it. You need to fight that urge, or at least recognize what is going on.

 

[DM60]

Yes, having a mid-forward sound can/will bring up reverb and delay, especially on vocals.

You will never get the mixes to sound exactly the same everywhere, and you can't be responsible for how any potential listener has their stereo set up. The best you can do is make it sound decent on a few nice sounding systems that you have access to. Also compare them to commercial CDs of a similar style to see if you can spot the difference between that and your mixes.

When you listen to commercial CDs on a bad system, you tend to blame the system because it's a commercial release. If your stuff sounds bad on a bad system, since you have control over the mix, you tend to try to fix it. You need to fight that urge, or at least recognize what is going on.

Plus, you may know the mix too well. Therefore you here it in your mixes verses commercial mixes.

 

[mixsit]

All good points. I've tried buying a 'ref for the common' speaker' route a few times, but after getting to know their sound, hating them some much I'd end dumping them.
Interesting about the mid range effect, I tend to think that's probably a good part of it. At times I'd thought of playing with simulating some of this with some eq shapes. Maybe I'll give that a spin and see if I can work up a preset or two as alternate reference points.

 

[Farview]

You would be better off with two sets of monitors and one decent car system. Any more than that and you start chasing your tail.

Again, you can't be responsible for they system your stuff is played back on. The only reason to listen on multiple systems is to make sure you are covering the full spectrum. After that, you are just wasting time second guessing yourself.

 

[JimmyS1969]

You would be better off with two sets of monitors and one decent car system. Any more than that and you start chasing your tail.

Again, you can't be responsible for they system your stuff is played back on. The only reason to listen on multiple systems is to make sure you are covering the full spectrum. After that, you are just wasting time second guessing yourself.

I totally agree with this. Though, without a treated room, one set of monitors will just be another set of monitors with the same issues. That being said, I have two pairs of studio monitors in my studio. It is quite well treated now, and it sounded like crap before I took the time to do what was needed. One pair sounds great overall, and I base most of my decisions on what I hear from them. The other pair quickly tells me when I am using too much reverb or delay. They just have way more clarity in the mid frequencies. I don't usually talk about this as the topic does not come up much, but there is something to be said about having two different pairs of monitors in the same room.

Actually, I have 3 pairs. The third is a $60 pair of computer monitors that I always go to when determining vocal levels. That is just my method tho. I always check again eventually in the van, but I have found it less necessary with multiple options in studio.

 

[mixsit]

... One pair sounds great overall, and I base most of my decisions on what I hear from them. The other pair quickly tells me when I am using too much reverb or delay. They just have way more clarity in the mid frequencies. I don't usually talk about this as the topic does not come up much, but there is something to be said about having two different pairs of monitors in the same room. ..

So when you say 'more clarity in the mids presumably that primarily means forward in response there(?

 

[Farview]

I also have two sets of monitors. One set have softer upper mids and the other have harder upper mids. If I switch between the two and the mix doesn't change drastically, Im done. That's when I take it out to the car, which will reveal if something is too sibilant or there is too much sub garbage that needs to be cleaned up.

 

[JimmyS1969]

So when you say 'more clarity in the mids presumably that primarily means forward in response there(?

Yep.

I also have two sets of monitors. One set have softer upper mids and the other have harder upper mids. If I switch between the two and the mix doesn't change drastically, Im done. That's when I take it out to the car, which will reveal if something is too sibilant or there is too much sub garbage that needs to be cleaned up.

That pretty much sums up what I do as well.