thcker cables equal better sound quality????

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videodrone

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I just got some george L cables, there .155 thickness. I did not realize that they would be about twice as thin as a pen! ! ! ! !

will the thicker ones give me better quality or does the thivkness not plan a role in tone??????


NOTE: I have 10 feet that I was going to cut into 6 inch patch cables, but now i am not doing that incase I have to take them back for the thicker ones. Else I would just cut them up and experiment for myself to see if I had any signal lose.
 
Well, it depends on various other things (like what you're connecting to them, also how long the cable is, etc.). A few observations, though:

- Take a look at some of the wires inside a piece of equipment. You'll find a lot of them that are heck of a lot thinner than half the thickness of a pen. How thick is a trace on a circuit board?

- Cut open some cables some time. You may find there's more variety in the thickness of the insulation than in the thickness of the actualy wire inside.

It isn't like thicker always means better. Depending on what you're doing, it might not matter, or it might be worse.
 
Depends what you mean by quality...

Concerning speaker cables, thickness is very often an indication of resistance in the cable - thicker cables (lower gauge) have less resistance. The usual analogy is water being forced through a narrow hose vs. a wider one - it flows more easily through the wider.

But mic and line levels have a pretty tiny current compared to speakers. Usually thickness in non-speaker audio cabling is more for protection and durability than to improve signal flow. If a cable is going to be stepped on, or have pianos rolled over it, etc. then thicker is probably better. But if you are running a snake from a patchbay with 48 or 96 individual lines that are going under a floor or through walls or some other route where they are protected from wear and tear (and they are hard wired so they aren't being yanked on by being plugged and unplugged a hundred times a day) then there is no advantage to big fat cables - they become more of a pain in the ass. Plus they are less flexible.
 
The cables are going to be for patching pedals together. they will be about 6 inches long. the inside of the cables are coaxial. and ill have about 10 of them,
 
Given how noisy pedals are (especially 10 of them in series!) and how short your cable lengths are, I'd say the cables will be contributing about .01% to your overall noise floor.
 
I was about to say, "Don't worry about it," but littledog already did.

I guess I've gone ahead and said, "Don't worry about it," anyway.
 
Ha ha! Beat sjj that time!

Someone's losing their fastball? :p
 
Given how noisy pedals are (especially 10 of them in series!) and how short your cable lengths are, I'd say the cables will be contributing about .01% to your overall noise floor.
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well yeah, thats why I am absoulutly trying to do everything I can to save as much tone as I can. as in getting the best cables I can afford.

George Ls are suppose to be awesome. And if the thinner wires are gonna contribute to more sound then Im going to get the bigger ones to save as much tone as I can.

soooooooooooooooooooooo

The cables are going to be for patching pedals together. they will be about 6 inches long. the inside of the cables are coaxial. and ill have about 10 of them,

do you think if i go thicker that I could save some tone or will the thickness not affect anything?
 
Eric Johnson Jr - AKA videodrone

You are being more anal then even the most anal engineers here. That is cool but you are entering into an area known as subjectivity where your opinion will be the only one that counts. I am fairly anal when it comes to preserving signal integrity and I would never allow 10 pedals in my signal path. We all have our own standards.

Each pedal is going to reamp the signal so in your case if you do experience 'tone loss' the cables are probably the least of the culprits. From a pure physics stand point you should have less resistance and interference with the thicker cable. If that makes you sleep better at night then go for the thicker ones.

There are general audio principles to follow then there is a point where you have to say "Fuck it, it's only rock and roll" or if you prefer "close enough for jazz."

BTW- If you don't understand the EJ reference he is known for being so obsessive about 'maintaining his tone' that he even wipes his cables with a dryer sheet because he believes the static electricity helps to align the molecules in the guitar cable. I believe he is even picky about the dryer sheets :rolleyes:
 
Most thicker cable has thicker insulation, which does not improve the sound. What can improve the sound is more copper. This can be done without making the cable thicker. Mogami 2534 has more copper by using two smaller wires in place of each single wire in most cables. There is less insulation, but more copper. 2534 really does sound better.

The other thing which can be helpful is using "low-oxygen" cable. Oxygen is an insulator, so it raises the resistance. More copper lowers the resistance, which is why it sounds better.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 

well yeah, thats why I am absoulutly trying to do everything I can to save as much tone as I can. as in getting the best cables I can afford.
Click to expand...

the premise has been stated repeatedly to you that in your particular scenario your choice of cables will be insignificant given how much you will be screwing up your sound with the boxes themselves. It's like trying to save the titanic by bailing with a teaspoon. But, hey, if quixotic quests are your baq...


George Ls are suppose to be awesome. And if the thinner wires are gonna contribute to more sound then Im going to get the bigger ones to save as much tone as I can.
Click to expand...

huh?


do you think if i go thicker that I could save some tone or will the thickness not affect anything?
Click to expand...

I thought this question was already answered about four times. Are you actually reading any of these responses? Try rereading some of the excellent answers by Tex and Light. If you get really desperate, you can reread some of mine as well.
 
Size isn't everything.

Taylor Johnson at the sound room (http://www.sound-room.com/) has some killer ramtech cables that are so small... they will remind you of spaghetti. I've had good results with them... not to mention I can stuff a bunch of them in a small bag.

Resistance is directly proportional to voltage. Microphone voltage levels are very low, therefore large conductors are not necessary. The quality of the conductor, the quality of the insulation, as well as the number of strands all contribute to good signal flow. Multi-strand cables tend to be more flexible... and since electricity flows mainly on the outer 'skin' of a conductor, the multi-strand cables most likely will have better signal flow.

Like any other product, the best ones tend to use the best material - and the best methods of manufacture... and tend to cost the most.

If your concern is clean signal flow, you might want to look at the number of pedals you are using. It's got to be pretty noisy going through so many of them.
 
I use George Ls as instrument and connector cables -- they sound much better than your standard ProCo (Ok, not saying much but that's all I had to compare with). But I was told by a rep to use them for runs of less than 3 feet for EACH cable (who knows how many you can string together with pedals?). This is because the signal will no longer be "time correct" after that length. That's fine for me in my home-rec situation ... Still, that's pretty damn anal. I've seen guitarists use them as an instrument cord just fine (of course they weren't long cables, like only 10 feet).
 
geekgurl said:
... But I was told by a rep to use them for runs of less than 3 feet for EACH cable (who knows how many you can string together with pedals?). This is because the signal will no longer be "time correct" after that length....
Click to expand...

I tend to avoid getting too into cable discussions, as one rapidly enters into a discussion that's in the realm of magic, but I have to say this rep must have a highly idiosyncratic understanding of the speed at which electrical signals travel through a cable. Let's say, at the outside (on the slow side), it's 50% of the speed of light = 93,000 miles per second, which could result in a whopping .0000061 milliseconds delay in a 3 foot cable. I'm assuming that when he worried about going over 3 feet, he didn't mean like 50 miles over 3 feet.

The rep must be pretty amazed that telephones work. (And I won't even get into cable TV, digital transmission lines, etc.).
 
Hey Guys, thanks for all the replies, im always glad to get any feedback I can,

for the record I called George L and they said there is absoulutly no difference between the thick (.255) and thin (.155) Georege L cables./

Thanks,
 
if you are connecting pedals together, dont even use cables, use Cranks! Youll never break em, they are as short as they could possibly be, and they keep your pedals from walking
 
If you are worrying about preserving your guitar signal, there are two very effective things you can do...
The first thing you can do is get a VHT Valvulator. It will convert the signal coming out of your guitar from high to low impedance. The signal will then travel with much less degredation through your stompboxes. The difference is quite amazing when you have one of these, and it sounds like you are plugged straight into the amp.

The second thing I would suggest doing is buying a power supply for all of your pedals with isolated outputs. The isolated outputs will help get rid of the ground loops that cause the hum that you hear. Voodoo Lab makes a very nice power supply called the pedal power 2. It powers up to ten pedals, each at 9 volts.

Doing both or even just one of these things will make much more of a difference in your guitar tone than new cables.

http://www.vhtamp.com/product-news/valvulator1.html
http://www.voodoolab.com/pedpower.html
 
sjjohnston said:
I tend to avoid getting too into cable discussions, as one rapidly enters into a discussion that's in the realm of magic, but I have to say this rep must have a highly idiosyncratic understanding of the speed at which electrical signals travel through a cable. .
Click to expand...

Yeah, well, like I said, it's what the dude said. Whatever, it doesn't mean anything to me but I thought I'd pass it along in case it meant something to anyone else. The part about my earlier post I am certain of is the sound difference I heard when compared to a run-of-the-mill cable. That's the .02 you can take to the bank. :)
 
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