that "shattered shards of crystal ice" guitar sound

  • Thread starter Thread starter dougeast
  • Start date Start date
Yeah Fender Twin Reverb but I assumed the Twin meant that they had two reverbs or something & I fleetingly saw one in a shop the other day (before this discussion otherwise I would've paid attention!) & it only had the one reverb. Unless I was most mistaken.

I'm sure the "Twin" refers to the two speakers... as far as the "Reverb" goes, it probably stems from the fact that the amp design is old enough for reverb to have still been a novelty when it was released - and the name just stuck. But that's just a guess.

Re the black face being better than the silver face, couldn't you just switch the fronts? I mean the silver looks way cooler purely on image but obviously it's the sound that matters, but if you wouldn't the image too, couldn't you just switch the panels? Well I guess that wouldn't be so cheap either. Anyway, a vintage valve amp is out of my price range until:

Hey, you and me both. There are some more affordable options though, like a Bassman (but you'd still need a speaker cab) or a Vibro Champ (but it would only be good for recording or more intimate live settings).

Anyway, it isn't a matter of the black face being cooler. :) It's actually a different circuit (pre-CBS, I think). I'm not exactly sure what the tonal difference is between the two designs, because the only Twin that I've spent a great deal of time listening to had already been reverted to black face specifications. I'm pretty sure that there are even pre-black face Tweed Twins - but I believe the circuit is very different.

Anyway, "tone snobs" prefer the blackface to the silverface, but I thought I'd bring the subject up anyway, because you can save money on a silverface amp and then have an ampman restore it to blackface specs.

I like Belle & Sebastian but the level of fan worship they receive is ludicrous (not that I would complain were we to receive something similar one day) & I feel they are over-rated.

I agree with that. I only have the first, and most recent albums - and I love the first, but my opinion of the last is that it's more an album with a great sound, than an album of great songs. I still like listening to it, though. It's just that the sound is so much more enjoyable to me than the "fridge buzz" that I hear on rock radio right now.

But we aspire more to being in the mainstream top ten. Effectively I want to compete with Elton John & Five not with The Field Mice, know what I mean?

Absolutely. And I don't think that's a bad thing to go after, but there's been a discussion elsewhere on the forum where some people definitely seem to disagree with me on that one. :)
 
>>So you're talking about normal finger picking but with finger picks & using open tunings, right? But i still don't know what you mean by "cluster chord".<<

Yes, as Johnny has said, he used many open tunings. However, he used F# alot, which of course gave him the standard scales of standard tuning except tuned up to contrast with Morrissey's register. I also remember Andy Rourke commenting that Johnny used "E" alot too.

Cluster chording is what some have called Drake's technique, where he is constantly plucking open strings throughout his arrangement, which Johnny did alot as well.

Here is an excerpt from an article discussing Nick Drake's use of "cluster chords:"

"But he immediately leaped far ahead of his contemporaries in his use of "cluster chords" - these are chords that have more than the standard 3 notes of a major or minor chord and whose notes tend to be clustered very close together (creating minor or major seconds). Although easy to play on keyboards, they are a pain in the neck to play on guitar."

So, I guess it could be described as a fancy term for incoprorating open notes in quick sucession of each other, but fitting succinctly with the general chord progression.

>>Funny you should mention Nick Drake as I am a huge fan. I got back into playing the guitar after years of not doing because I wanted to learn how to play like Drake. Hasn't quite worked out like that but...Anyway there's a great Drake web site which has nearly all his songs tabbed out & man are they precise!<<

I could have never imagined that there is a site like this. Could you please post the url? That sounds fascinating. His technique seemed so intricate, and I know he used alot of obscure tunings from what I've read.

>>You know usually you try & play what someone else thinks is the song & it just doesn't sound anything like no matter how you vary the rythm, picking, tempo etc but this guy - Chris Healey- has Drake's tunes spot on. Must of took years!<<

I agree. I mean, I've only been playing guitar for a short time, (you most likely know more than I do, yet I quikcly became obsessive about Johnny's technique) and it is amazing how simple some truly intricate sounding songs are when you find the actual tabs for them. It's the full songwriting pciture that gives them that unique voicing.

>>I didn't know Johnny played like that. I thought he was just into normal tuning with capo. Guess I have more work to do than I expected :-)<<

Well, it's interesting. Johnny used F# a lot, which, of course, still allows him the standard tuning chord scales. However, he claimed he used D (which I love) G, A and others. In fact, Headmaster Ritual was composed in D with a capo on the second fret.

He also used a Nashville tuning as well, and as you probably know, would paste many layers of guitar over one another, and even would use a few different tunings as overdubs on one piece. He was truly a studio painter.

>>Do you know the issue & volume # of the guitar player mag? Maybe I could track it down or maybe the article is posted somewhere on the Net.<<

Here is the full article. This article is great, for he tells you what tunings and chords he used in particular songs, and it provides insight into his creation process as well

http://arcane.morrissey-solo.com/smiths/interviews/post87/antihero.htm

I haven't read it in a while, but it was absolutely fascinating to me the first time. Growing up as a fan who didn't play guitar, I couldn't help but see him as an indescribable magician on guitar.

>>Re the picks are you referring to those thin plastic things you strap or tape on as used by the Portuguese guitar players (especially in the Fado) or to those thick, more like plectrum type things that you wear? I have only actually seen those for thumb & couldn't even begin to imagine using one.<<

As far as I know Johnny used the thumb pick, and I think eventually to used others as well. I think he describes it in the article I pasted, but I could be mistaken about some details. I remember reading that he sometimes used the finger picks to get more subtle notes while changing chords.

They do take some getting used to, and are not necessary if you have lengthy finger nails or sturdy fingertips, which I don't. I've seen most players just use their fingers. They are seemingly rare.

>>The other type maybe I could get used to but they are really uncomfortable to wear for any length of time. I didn't think Drake used anything, just his finger nails. But then he only played acoustic.<<

Yeah, as far as I know Drake, like most, just used his fingernails. which suppossedly were allowed to grow frigtheningly long near the end of his life.
 
More on Drake & Marr

Hey Arnold,

http://www.algonet.se/~iguana/DRAKE/NDtabs2.html

Here's the link to the Drake site. You wanna go for the tabs by Chris Healey. I learnt "Time Has Told Me" & I can tell you that it's note perfect. I dunno how the guy does it he must have spent a lot of time on research & be very skilled at working songs out by ear. I also tried Northern Sky & ...Harvest is it? Anyway they were spot on too. I wanna learn Cello Song but it's so fast that it's very daunting.

IMO all those metal guitarists can go shit they don't even come close to the skill level of Drake.

Now you 've described the cluster chord technique I know exactly what you mean & yeah Drake was the master. I mean your just not supposed to be able to play the guitar like that! Genuis.

Yeah I play pretty well & would play a lot better if I didn't have to work for a living but I've only got a good grip on the standard tuning haven't even begun to investigate other possibilities (aside from doodling around trying to learn a couple of Nick Drake tunes).

Would love to get more into that side of things especially as I read more & more about Marr & Drake & how they play/ed. I def see myself using the layer on layer of guitars technique favoured by Johnny. We're working on a new song which incorporates different chords in the same key played against each other. Sounds stunning & very Marrish. (hey a new word!). I'm also a big fan of just playing two or three note chords in a higher position to the rythm guitar which I'm sure is common enough but adds a lot to the sound & gives very chimey effects.

Re the picks I read that Johnny used the thumb pick cos he was into Bert Jansch who also used it. But I don't think it's very easy to switch if you didn't start learning that way. I prefer plectrum or finger nails. Forget about finger tips that's never gonna get the right sound or the necessary speed. Too long nails won't work either. But yeah man it's fucking hard keeping them in good condition. I have real problems with my first finger nail cos I always catch it when I play chords with the plectrum & then it won't grow properly on one side.

Then there's the fact that I play piano too so I have to have my nails at the perfect length to do both things. Really hard. Worth perservering though, I love finger picked guitar :-)

So are you playing in a band as well?

Gonna go check out the Marr article now. Even though I should be revising for my Sound Technician exam...

Ciao :-)

doug east
 
Hey Doug, thanks so much for the Drake Tab site, it looks amazing. He even has the tunings mapped. Unbelievable.

Take care!
 
Told you

Hey Arnold,

You're welcome. Really must email the guy & find out how he got the songs so precise.

Read the Marr interview too, couldn't access it through the site but the webmaster sent me a copy by email. Awesome interview incredible what that guy achieved in such a short time. Made me feel seriously unworthy of the term "guitarrist".

Ciao.

doug east
 
Back
Top