TFPRO (Ted Fletcher) - Better option than ProMeek?

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Mr Funk

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TFpro (Ted Fletcher) - or the New JoeMeek line?

Check out the website: http://www.tfpro.com

Should be interesting to see how these and the new JoeMeek range from PMI compare! I feel a war brewing! Maybe not from the manufacturers themselves, but their advocates.

Which do you fancy?

Some great info on the TFprosite about this new range and the history leading up to it's conception etc.

Enjoy and drool!!!
 
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QUOTE:.............."Some great info on the TFprosite about this new range and the history leading up to it's conception etc."


But is it fact or fantasy?

Knowing what was at least a partial cause of TF's demise and having seen and read the various incarnations of "his" products and website since then, I strongly suspect the latter.





:cool:
 
ausrock;

Can you please elaborate, as I am in the dark about Ted Fletcher's 'demise'.

Thanx
 
Mr. F,

Alan Hyatt is far better qualified to answer this than I, however, as I understand things..........

In short order;

TF, screwed his staff financially, from memory it had something to do with their taxes/benefits.

His business was going/went down the tubes.

Alan Hyatt/PMI already owned the JoeMeek t/mark thingy in the US, and consequently purchased the Meek name, etc, presumably for not only the UK, but the rest of the world from the liquidators handling the then failed company. All legal and above board.

TF........ then issued some of the JM products and slightly altered names......... Was legally instructed to change the colour and the name and has now come out with this new range of products, which apparently, internally bare a striking resemblance to the JM internals........including some pcb's having the JM name on them.


That is a rough summary as I understand it.

What has me curious, is that TF and Co, have been unable to correct a number of continually nagging problems with some of their later JM gear, yet have managed in a very short space of time to design and build these "new" items. Someone must have been working overtime.

Then again, maybe the misappropriated funds paid for TF to attend "magicians school".

Sorry for sounding rather cynical, but having watched this "from afar" for some time, I find TF and anything he has to say, a bit hard to swallow.



:cool:
 
I'm sure the designs aren't very new... The only reason to really make new designs is the old designs are using some patents. If not, the circuit solutions are usable by anybody, including the guy that created them in the first hand. ;)

If he are using the exact same circuit board layouts it's another matter. Then you first need to determine who holds the copyright for them. But it seems like he isn't. For example, the new compressor has emulations of three compressors, one being a JoeMeek compressor. So it obviously are not the same compressor, isn't using the same circuitboard or the exact same circuit, and hence is not a copyright infringement.

Now, if they have been able to fix 'the nagging problems' or not, that's a whole different question. Time will tell, I guess.
 
ausrock,

Thanks for the info. I had actually been over to another forum and read all about it. I find it a bit off that people are going on about the Tax issue etc, as it is not right for people to remark on things of a legal nature, as there are always two sides to every story and I guess this is what the law and judicial systems are for! It may even be classed legally as defamatory to TF's character (even if it is true)?

I live and work in England and I can tell you that it is pretty hard to get away with not paying an employee's taxes without their knowledge! I don't want to speculate any more, but I just think it is a little unfair to paint Mr Fletcher as a morally bankrupt person and a common thief!

I can understand Alan Hyatt's grievances, but I think besmurching someone's character is not the proper way to go about proving a point. I'm sure the new PMI JoeMeek stuff will be all that is promised and Alan has definitely given a lot to the industry and I wish the best of luck to him and the new JoeMeek range. However, I also hope that TF is not being a naughtly boy, and that his company can continue, as I feel that it can only be of benefit to the music/post industry to have 2 good products out there as opposed to 1!

One final point: I was reading a lot of posts from about a year ago where Alan was praising the JoeMeek stuff, using words like awsome etc. Now a year later, now that he owns the company and is making changes to the units, he is saying how bad they are!!??
 
I think......repeat "think", that the JM quality issues are a fairly recent thing.

Where comments about TF are concerned, if his past "misbehaviour" got him into trouble, it will be a matter of public record and as such, there is really nothing wrong with anyone telling the truth of the matter. And realistically, if that is the case, TF besmurched his own character long before anyone else had a chance.

If what is being said is not true, then that is an entirely different situation.

Cheers.


:cool:
 
ausrock,

I'm no legal expert, but when I studdied media, a section of the course was dedicated to media law. I distinctly recall that even if a negative statement about a person is true, there is still often a case for slander/libel if the statement leads to loss of credibility and effects a person's standing. I think it may have to do with the motive behind the defamatory statement or if the 'true' story divulged about someone leads to them being judged by that past wrong doing (see what I mean?) - i.e. Saying that someone did 'this' so they are not to be trusted with 'that' is not on!

I guess it may be linked to why someone's past crime is not 'meant' to be held against them when trying to get a new job etc. Equal Oppertunities and all that?

Anyway, this is totally off the subject of sexy audio gear! I just want nice boxes with knobs on that make my music sound heavenly or Helly (if there is such a word)!
 
Mr Funk said:
I live and work in England and I can tell you that it is pretty hard to get away with not paying an employee's taxes without their knowledge! I don't want to speculate any more, but I just think it is a little unfair to paint Mr Fletcher as a morally bankrupt person and a common thief!
Click to expand...

I don't know the details of this case, but generally I agree. In Sweden for example, if your company doesn't pay your taxes, the state will put the company into bancrupcy. The employees will not suffer in any other way than that they will loose their jobs, which obviously is unavoidable if your company is going bancrupt.

That doesn't mean that the owner is a bad person, just that he is bad at running companies. ;)
 
Well, since Alan has publically said PMI Audio bought some TFPRO units and found old Joe Meek PCBs in them, then I know which way my bet goes...

As for slander, while I don't know any legal aspects, I do have to say that the public ALWAYS passes judgement WAY before any legal ruling or even trial.
 
But Alan has also publicly said that he owns the US and European JM trademark. Ten minutes' research on the appropriate websites might reveal something else. And if he owns the TM but not the designs of the pcb's, is that still illegal for them to be in the red boxes? Regebro?
And before anybody starts climbing the hill to get to Mt Moral High Ground, HOW many references to the use of guns to sort out business differences are there in this group of threads????
 
I think a lot would depend on what was included with the T/mark, etc., during the sell off by the liquidators...............and that is something Alan has alluded to, but to my knowledge hasn't given exact details about. From past experience with Alan, I doubt that he would waste his time or money over this if he didn't have good reason. Nor does he appear to be in the habit of saying something that isn't based on fact.

Realistically, none of Alan's business dealings are any of our business. The fact that the guy chooses to share with us when he feels it necessary, should be appreciated by all......whether you agree with him or not.



:cool:
 
May I just point out that I'm not on anyone's side and that I never intended to begin a real debate about whether or not Ted Fletch was actally breaking the law in terms of his new TFpro gear etc. I would not have a clue if he is or not, as I have nothing to do with any of the parties involved and anything Alan or Ted say on any forums is simply hear-say and should not be accepted as proven fact! Not calling anyone a liar, just being fair!! Innocent until proven guilty and all that...

I wish Alan all the luck in the world if TF is infringing on his copyright and I believe Alan to be a generally good bloke!

All I wanted to say was that I thought discussing Ted's past TAX related issues had nothing to do with the current case and that using someone's previous foibles to get others on-side and discredit the person you have a problem with is not ethical and possibly illegal.

It is totally possible that Alan had no dia intentions at all and I don't want to imply that he did (that would be a little ironic). I just thought some of his comments were a little distasteful.

Hope I not making any enimies here? That is not my intention at all. I love you Alan, Ted and everyone!!!!!!
 
melly said:
And if he owns the TM but not the designs of the pcb's, is that still illegal for them to be in the red boxes? Regebro?
Click to expand...


Well, to use the same PCB layouts is a copyright issue, and it has then to be decided who holds copyright to them.

If Alan Hyatt bought the whole of the folded Joe Meek company, then he is *probably* the copyright owner, unless Ted Fletcher has made sure that he hold copyright personally. If he only bought the trademarks then he is not the copyright owner (and it that case there probably is no copyright owner at all). If AH bought the circuit designs, he holds copyright on the circuit designs, and TF would be in breach of that copyright (regardless of copyright on PCB layout).

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think it's illegal to print the Joemeek name on the circuit boards. It's only illegal to use it in marketing. I think.
 
regebro said:
I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think it's illegal to print the Joemeek name on the circuit boards. It's only illegal to use it in marketing. I think.
Click to expand...

Look at it this way...You buy a Chevy, and inside the Chevy is a BMW motor. The trademark name on the motor is scratched off a bit, but you still see BMW. Now Chevy has not asked to use this BMW motor that it is marketing and selling "as" a Chevy. It is not paying for any use of a registered trademark owned by another company, or for that matter a design it does not own.

Now, if you put the BMW motor in after you bought the Chevy, there is no issue. If Chevy put the motor in, well, its big trouble in little china for sure.
 
alanhyatt said:
Look at it this way...You buy a Chevy, and inside the Chevy is a BMW motor. The trademark name on the motor is scratched off a bit, but you still see BMW. Now Chevy has not asked to use this BMW motor that it is marketing and selling "as" a Chevy. It is not paying for any use of a registered trademark owned by another company, or for that matter a design it does not own.
Click to expand...

Well, there are several different questions here, that are closely related, but different.

-------------

1. It would be illegal for use the BMW brand in their advertising without BMW's consent. This is independant on if the engines are from BMW or not. You simply are not allowed to use a registered trademark in advertising without the trademark owners consent, period.

Now, this used to be a problem between TFPro and Joemeek. If I understand the last batch of posts on the issue it should now have been worked out. TFPro no longer has joemeek.net, no longer calls their products promeek and no longer uses the Joemeek green.

--------------

2. It is illegal for Chevy to make copies of BMW motors. This is completely independant on if the motors markings say "BMW" or "Chevy".

This may be a problem if indeed Alan Hyatt owns the designs for the Joemeek products. If he doesn't own them, and the copyright holder is the old, no longer existing, joemeek company, then Ted Fletcher is in his full right to use these designs. So are everbody else, for that matter, and hence anybody can make Joemeek copies. Not that anybody would want to, since both TFPro and Joemeek is already fighting about that market and have a huge head start. ;)

If Alan Hyatt bought the right to the designs too, then TFPro may be in breach of copyright, depending on how much the circuit layouts have changed. This unfortunately is a court matter, and not likely to be easily decided. See the Mackie vs Behringer fight about such issues...

-------------

3. (This part, I'm not 100% sure of). I think it's not illegal to put a "BMW" trademark on the Chevy engines, at least as long as it's not visible during normal operations. It's a trademark, and it's usage is basically only restricted in advertising.

You are not allowed to name your products something that is a trademark, and you can't use peoples trademarks in advertising. You can, however, print it inside a product. In this case, on a curcuit board, it wouldn't be visible for a user in most cases, and hence it's doubtful if it really is trademark infringement. Rules may be different for different countries here. But more likely, (and a bigger problem) if the circuit boards say 'joemeek' that is not so much of a trademark infringement, as a copyright infringement (see #2).

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4. It is not illegal for Chevy to buy motors from BMW and use in their cars. It is probably illegal (I don't know again) for Chevy to buy complete BMW cars and switch all the markings to 'Chevy' (this is known as rebranding, and it's a fuzzy area).

This is really not relevant for this discussion at all, as this is not what has been happening. I included it for completeness, though. :)
 
alanhyatt said:
Look at it this way...You buy a Chevy, and inside the Chevy is a BMW motor.
Click to expand...

Bad example... there are lots of motors that were built by "other" manufacturers in cars... and it ain't part of the marketing materials...
 
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