terrible room

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eeb

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i'm working on a demo and we just moved into our new jam space/studio space. I won't have any cashflow for a while to acoustically treat it and now i'm trying to get a decent mix but finding it almost impossible. See the room in a big concrete room and it's like i'm sitting inside a bass sub trying to mix.. the bass is so rediculously amplified in that room even mixes that i particularily love sound like a muddy mess.. so i figured if i make my mixes sound like a muddy mess maybe i'm ok.. haha hasn't worked yet... are there any tricks to doing a quick job of fixing the room so it's at least useable or am i stuck with using a whole spindle of cdr's to keep checking my mixes..


the closest thing to a mix i've gotten so far is here

www.myspace.com/poorlydrawnbirds it's the first tune.. doesn't sound completly like ass but i'm not getting the bass and kick to co-operate with me
 
Do you have any mattresses or anything you can use? You need thick mass with air between (like a couple mattresses spaced from the wall) to absorb low bass frequencies. Sounds like you're in a terrible place to mix from the way you describe it. I hear very little bass at all in the song although the rest sounds good (except for MySpace's crappy quality).

The best thing you can do apart from treating it, in my opinion, is to get this mix's bass right then use it as a reference for your other songs. There is no other better reference material than your own songs. If you can get one of them sounding how you want.

I think the mix has plenty of room for you to boost the bass. Maybe do about 4-5 mixes each with a little more bass and post back here for opinions and also try it on other systems until you get it right.

Some mattresses or other thick material may help but probably not as well as good acoustic treatment.
 
Not having heard your music (I'm on 56k dialup) if your room is that bad it may be better to learn to mix with headphones until you can get into a better space.
Many may argue against headphones but sometimes you have to take the lesser of two evils to make the most of what you have.
 
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I'd also ask whether there is a pressing timeline forcing you to record and mix NOW. What's the hurry?

If there is a pressing need to get something out, then it seems to me that there's a pressing need to beg or borrow some money to spend to get a good recording and mix under good conditions. If there is no real pressing need, then slow down and wait until you're actually ready to do it OK.

Either way, check out the Studio Building Forum on this board for a gaggle of tips for DIY room setup and treatments on the cheap.

G.
 
well yeah there actually is a need to do it now.. we're submitting a demo for a recording grant.. it has to be there by this friday.. on that note it doesn't HAVE to sound super polished.. I do want it to sound half decent though.. I don't know about you but just going out to borrow money for a recording isn't something that's evan close to possible. I just moved the studio and I'm in the process of building my control room.. when budjet allows it will be done.. In the past month we've changed the line up and wrote some new songs which is why it wasn't done yet. I won't lie i detected that you are trying to talk down on me in your post southside which irratates me.. correct me if i'm wrong, i'm never looking for conflict but i dont' like being talked down on..
 
eeb said:
I won't lie i detected that you are trying to talk down on me in your post southside which irratates me.. correct me if i'm wrong, i'm never looking for conflict but i dont' like being talked down on..
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Not at all, eeb. Just trying to give a practical perspective. If you had to take pictures of your car or house as part of an advertisement to sell it, would you take those pictures at night or while it's raining? Would you take pictures of the car or house before you cleaned and polished them up real nice? No, you'd wait for the sun to come up and the rain to stop and everything to look just so.

I was just asking the same thing here, if the recording is important, as in trying to selll your band or your music the way you'd try selling a car or a house, what's the point in making it in a space that sounds like crap? Wouldn't it make sense to wait until conditions improve before making that production?

And conversely, if it is important and on a deadline where you just can't wait, then I suggested that it wouuld make sense (to me, anyway) to do it right, or at least to do better than work in a room that you yourself said sounds awful. I know guys who have gotten loans from their family and/or friends in order to buy the studio time and/or build their own quality project space in order to cut quality demos and make their own indie releases. I was suggesting that as an option here too.

That's all I'm saying. Nothing condescending there, implied or intended. Just providing an honest analysis IMHO that if your doing anytying other than a hobby or a vanity release, that it would make sense not to cut any more corners in time or effore than you need to, and to try instead to do it as best as possible. Getting that grant could make or break you guys; don't phone in your response to that opportunity is all I'm suggesting.

And as a final suggestion, I did point you to the forum that has all the information your looking for as far as inexpensive DIY room tratment.

It's an honest opinion, and IMHO (FWTW), pretty good advice. And it was advice given without any flaming embellishment or condescending vocabulary. Take it or leave it as you wish.

G.
 
fair enough.. sorry to assume.. I guess it was the bold cap locks that gave me the wrong impression.. hence the flaws of the written word..

yeah I do agree if this were something to be released we would do it right.. either spend money on treating the room or go into another studio (no headaches for me mixing everything that way hehe) but this is kinda an odd case...... they judge the songs but if they sound too good they won't give us the grant.. they don't wanna hear a polished copy or else they'll question what we need money to record for.. (kinda wierd but that's the way it works)
 
eeb said:
fair enough.. sorry to assume.. I guess it was the bold cap locks that gave me the wrong impression.. hence the flaws of the written word..

yeah I do agree if this were something to be released we would do it right.. either spend money on treating the room or go into another studio (no headaches for me mixing everything that way hehe) but this is kinda an odd case...... they judge the songs but if they sound too good they won't give us the grant.. they don't wanna hear a polished copy or else they'll question what we need money to record for.. (kinda wierd but that's the way it works)
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Yeah, I was just trying to emphasize the "now" aspect of it. No kiddie "this means I'm shouting" Internet meta-meaning intended. Apologies it came across that way.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking just what you just explained after you referred to the grant. Makes sense to me. Still, you probably want to at least have a good enough mix balance to make sure your mix is listenable enough. Kind of a fine balancing act you're facing; good enough to make them want to listen, but not so good that they think you don't need the help :).

You've probably read most of this stuff already, but a quick summary of what I'd do in the way of guerilla treatment:

Set your desk op in the middle of a wall, symmetrical distance from the side walls. Assuming you're using nearfield or bookcase monitors, keep then at least a foot or two from the wall behind them, and keep them away from the room corners, where possible.

Small panels of cheap DIY HF absorption behind the monitors. Small/medium panels of cheap DIY diffusion on the side walls and ceiling located at the exact spots where if you were to put a small mirror there, you'd be able to directly see your nearest monitor in the mirror from where you sit, all to help tame at least somewhat mid- and high-freq first reflection and comb filtering.

Then some cheap DIY bass trapping in the rear corners including, if you can afford it, the seam between the rear wall and the ceiling, to help tame your room's bass modality somewhat.

Tips on design and materials for the DIY products can be found in the studio building forum.

If you just don't have the time or money for that stuff, then a halfway decent pair of phones would probably have to do. Just keep in mind that with most (not couning the real top end) phones, the bass will sound a bit anemic. Mixing the bass to sound right in the phones can often mean boosting the bass too much for playback on other speakers.

YMMV on all that.

G.
 
hey thanks! I'll try that! The world of acoustic treatment is a foreign one to me so i have some researchin to do
 
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