Technologically impaired vocalist

  • Thread starter Thread starter IceFairy
  • Start date Start date
This is gonna be fun.

Richard - you have several points there. Right now I'm using AcidPro(not sure which version) to record my stuff. Right now the stuff I have is:

Shure Beta 57a mic (+ 25' cable, XLR F to 1/4" adapter, and 1/4" to 1/8" for computer usage)
Basic tripod/boom stand
Crappy pair of headphones..
Alvarez acoustic guitar (not too shabby for what I'm working with)

The main thing I want to aim for is something that will improve the quality of my vocals. They're the focus of my music right now.
Perhaps I could post one of my rough recordings to give everyone a better idea? It would be embarrassing, but it might help.. :)
 
If you do want the Behringer 602a cheap. Ill bet alot of us have them in our closets.

Try hot deals forum and post WTB Behringer 602a. If you lived close to KC Ill give you a good deal on mine.
 
Ice,you seem to have already started down the path of the PC, so others on this board will know far more than I. The only advice I have for you is to solve all problems by improving the signal-you!
I'd say upgrade the guitar if possible (depending on the Alvarez, maybe not) and get the sound you want by playing- and more playing. Sounds like you're afraid of being embarassed, but I bet every person on this board has listened to a tape of themselves and knew that it sucked! Find yourself, *your*voice and poetry, and tell your story honestly. The recording thing will come. And hang around dudes who own lots of guitars (check some of the lists on this board)-go play some guitar and sing. I will not trash your MP-3 but somebody probably will- Live with it...Richie
 
Wise words dude, Ive read a few interviews with some of the best songwriters out there and 4 out of five times they get rejected. What makes them succesful is that they dont stop, and instead of giving up when someone tells them they havent got what it takes, They took a Ill show you attitude, and let that drive them.


Before you dive into the expensive world of homewreckin' First its important to know what your goals are, I wish I had , My rig has evolved over time and Ive lost a few dollars on buying equipment that was out grown soon after the purchase, So if you see something you want, get something better.

Wayne
 
Seems like I'm a bit worse off then when I started.. :)

For now, my Alvarez is pretty decent.. I don't play too bad and make the best of the guitar. I *did* have a guitarist that could really kick butt on a lot of players out there, but before I could get anywhere he joined a Pentecostal church and decided he's going to do Christian music.. uhm, been there, done that, not really my thing. So in order to not compromise myself and my style, I'm sticking with what I have right now even if I'm on my own.

Contrary to how it sounds, I'm actually pretty confident in my voice, I can sing easily in front of a lot of people (done it a few times), but I have a hard time singing in front of people that are closer to me.

Anyhow, I'm still a bit confused.. I've been reading up on the music industry and it seems you have to become a Britney Sneers clone and sell your looks if you're going to make it out there, so should I bother with all the recording equipment, or try for live sound right now? I'm thinking I should go with one of my first ideas and look into a halfway decent amp...

Help?
 
IceFairy said:
Anyhow, I'm still a bit confused.. I've been reading up on the music industry and it seems you have to become a Britney Sneers clone and sell your looks if you're going to make it out there, so should I bother with all the recording equipment, or try for live sound right now? I'm thinking I should go with one of my first ideas and look into a halfway decent amp...
Click to expand...

That's not far from the truth. If your goal was to record an amazing demo and get signed then you are in for a lot of dissapointment. You are young and if you are also hot than that approach might work. There are a few young female songwriters that are getting a lot of play right now doing acoustic rock stuff. If you want success quickly than get your parents to hire an agent or lawyer to shop your demo around to the labels.

If you are really bent on becoming a professional performer than concentrate on the performance side. Play anywhere they will let you and try to build up a local following. Then you can try to get a deal with an independent label and work up from there. That is how most of the real bands (not producer projects) do it.

If you haven't noticed most of the artist that people really respect don't become succesful until their late 20's or early 30's. You've got a long road ahead of you. Good luck.
 
Ice, Mr. Road Kill has given you some really excellent advice. You need to set priorities. Do you want to be a Superstar? a recording engineer? a recording artist, or just an artist? We've run the whole forum gambit here, from mics to sound cards to marketing to guitars and basses. Now amps- OK. The points you raise about marketing are often true. If you want to be in the music *business*, then you have to make compromises occasionally, just don't compromise yourself. Sometimes, your music will be changed, modified, copied, purchased,adapted, perverted, ruined,sold, and stolen. Just don't let it happen to you. If you're attractive, don't be afaid to show it, and if you're ordinary looking, dress to look better. It shouldn't be true, but people care how you look. If you're ugly, get the right nasty leather and give 'em a good show.
Just play well. Hell, Juliana Hatfield isn't good looking, and she can't sing too well either, but she's made her mark and a lot of money without kissing too much ass. She also went to Berklee. If you want to sing, I'd say get a good dynamic stage mic and work toward a small PA to sing through. This will teach you more about singing to the mic, your friend. Microphone technique is learned, like playing a guitar, you will need practice. Recording mics are similar, but more sensitive, and have different fields of pickup.
I'm not clear on whether the Alvarez is acoustic or electric, and if it is acoustic, does it have a pickup in it? You see, I don't think it matters whether you play performances right now or record. What matters is that you learn to play and sing the best you can. That will be there if you are beautiful or plain, and it'll stay with you as you grow old. I'm pretty sure about this. If you want to be a success in the *business* of music, you'll have to make it happen yourself, and it will require training and a thick skin and sacrifice. If you think you're confused right now, know that the best is yet to come. So tell us more about this guitar and your dreams. If you don't have MP3's you're happy with, how about some lyrics on the songwriter's forum? Get a book on recording and copyright those lyrics first. When they steal your songs, it really sucks. I've had a beautiful medieval ballad stolen and set to the "Gilligan's Island" themesong! I'm still hunting down that Dweeb...Richie
 
I personally would stick with recording for now, this will help you in writing/developing and performing your songs for when you start playing gigs. There's just something about hearing yourself back where you notice little mistakes that you didn't notice while you were playing. Get your songs fully developed first, then start worring about gigs.

Which ever way you decide to go there's a couple options to consider when buying gear, you could always hold out and save up for better equipment so that you won't out grow it for a while. But something else you should think about also, is getting something now (like a Behringer mixer.... yes, I happend to have one also :D) and even though you may grow out of it after a while, you'll be learning how to use it "now" so that when you do save up for the more expensive equipment you'll have a good understanding on how to use it. And while this site and other sites are a great for info, there is no substitude for experience.

Just something to think about. ;)

Good luck, :)
-tkr
 
Great thread,....

Anyhow, I'm still a bit confused.. I've been reading up on the music industry and it seems you have to become a Britney Sneers clone and sell your looks if you're going to make it out there,
Click to expand...
You've definitely got your head on straight Icefairy! Very impressive.


That's not far from the truth. If your goal was to record an amazing demo and get signed then you are in for a lot of dissapointment. You are young and if you are also hot than that approach might work. There are a few young female songwriters that are getting a lot of play right now doing acoustic rock stuff. If you want success quickly than get your parents to hire an agent or lawyer to shop your demo around to the labels.

If you are really bent on becoming a professional performer than concentrate on the performance side. Play anywhere they will let you and try to build up a local following. Then you can try to get a deal with an independent label and work up from there. That is how most of the real bands (not producer projects) do it.

If you haven't noticed most of the artist that people really respect don't become succesful until their late 20's or early 30's. You've got a long road ahead of you. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Trackrat.... Excellent advise! Kudos!

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I need to check this more often.

Sorry I'm slow to reply, haven't been around too much. I've thought about it somewhat and right now I'm thoroughly disgusted with the music business. I think maybe I should just try to form a band and do some small gigs to get the feel of things.

I have not too much to worry about with looks. I'm not stunningly beautiful but I'm not ugly or plain. I'm average weight.. I want to lose about 10 pounds right now but it's something for me and not because I want to sell myself. To an extent, I'll have to do this, but I'll not change much about me. Everything about my music and personality is what makes me my own person..

So far I've gotten pretty good feedback on my voice. To be quite honest, I get a jaw-dropping response to my vocals most of the time. This year I performed a song I wrote for my school and this girl that totally HATED me all year came up to me and said "Wow, I got chills" and gave me a hug.. it's weird. My voice sounds average to me, but I have to believe the majority outside opinion, and I believe I can do something with it and I'm confident in it.

So to answer the main questions coming from all of you: I have what it takes in talent and I'm not going to make anyone puke when they have to actually *see* me singing. And second, I'm under no illusions when it comes to the music industry. I want to be an artist and be recognized for my own style, even if I can only do that in my hometown. So I think I should get an amp.

My guitar.. it's acoustic. No pickup on it. That's a problem. What do I do? As in, get a mic, or can you get something for pickup..

Also I saw a taxi amp thing on Musician's Friend that I liked.. is that okay for something to start with?

Thanks for all your help.
 
Oh yeah, for the curious and the bored.. I have a really crappy one-take of a song on garageband.com/naomisimpson if you want to hear me.
 
Well since I was both bored and curious I decided to check your song out... ;) :D

And wow!! That was really good. You definitely have great tallent there, especially at only 15. :)

Yes, you can get a pickup for you acoustic, not sure on prices but check around. You probably won't need an amp for it, as acoustics usually sound better running through the PA system.

Something you may also want to consider is getting a portable DAW (digital 8-track recorder) like the BOSS BR-532 ($395) or something that you can record the different instrument parts into and use that for playing small clubs/coffee shops in place of a full band. You probably won't be able to get an entire band in those small places (with a drummer) and have everyone be able to hear your vocals clearly. Plus you could also record backing vocal/harmonies with the instrument track for when you play live, backing vocals sound really good with your style of music.

Again, great song, looking forward to hearing more. :)

-tkr
 
Hum.

I checked into the pickups and I see I could be spending anywhere from $29 to $300. I'll probably go with something fairly simple but dependable.. It hurts to spend too much but I'd rather not buy anything than buy something just because the price is attractive, obviously. I'll probably scope it out more and when I'm ready, just buy the pickup and the amp/PA at once.. my Shure 57a should be okay for now? One thing I don't get is how pretty much everyone seems to be using omnidirectional mics.. mine's unidirectional. Is that a problem? Unless there's something I'm missing, I like it because there's less pickup from anywhere but where I need it.

Thanks for listening to my song, glad you liked it.. but did you notice how in that first line "between the spaces in your room" it sounds more like "between the spaces in your roof"? Sounds like a good song for one of those local construction company commercials.. :) Just a bit of pointless nothing.

And thanks to everyone for putting up with my endless questions.. I just have a lot that I'm unsure of right now and like to get some input from people who've actually had some experience with the equipment. Hope I'm not beginning to be a pain in the..toenail.
 
Hey Ice, you're still with us after 30 or 40 reality checks- cool. Garageband.com is down, probably crashed by all your homerec fans. Anyway, I look forward to hearing it. I may have a deal for you- check your private messages-Richie
 
Hi again Ice - glad to see you're not giving up just because of some difficult choices. Just thought I'd throw my $2.00 in here (not necessarily more valuable, just usually long-winded, hehe) Your comment "One thing I don't get is how pretty much everyone seems to be using omnidirectional mics.. mine's unidirectional. Is that a problem? Unless there's something I'm missing, I like it because there's less pickup from anywhere but where I need it. " kind of threw me. I'm not sure where you heard that omni's were used mostly, but it is certainly NOT true for playing live. Your comment about pickup only where you need it is the clue. An omni mic will cause feedback on stage with a lot less volume than a directional mic will. Even in the studio, very few people tend to use omni's, except for room mics (ambience), again for reasons of sound control.

Your 57, depending on your vocal characteristics, should do fine for some time. As for your guitar, another mic could work instead of a pickup, IF you sit still on a stool and sing and play. For moving around at all, a pickup is a more consistent sound. If you can afford it, anything by Fishman should do a good job. Piezo type pickups tend to give a more natural acoustic sound on an acoustic guitar than one of the magnetic type pickups do.

There are "acoustic" type amps available, that would probably work as an all-in-one solution for voice and guitar, but won't sound as good for voice as a real PA system. As tight as your budget is, it might take a while to save for something that won't make you sound like crap vocally.

The portastudio thing might make some sense if you're intending to do pre-recorded backing tracks to sing along with - another good reason for that piece of gear is self-critique for purposes of improvement. There is nothing that will convince you that you need to practice a particular part quicker than hearing the 10 mistakes you forgot about by the time you finished the song, played back in all their un-varnished glory... In the case of vocal styling, it would also let you decide whether you were over the top with the 128 different pitches you sang on that one word, just for "effect"...

If someone in the family has a camcorder you can use, you could accomplish most of the same thing by recording yourself in both video and audio, and using the feedback from that to modify your visual approach as well as other ingredients. Chet Atkins was an amazing guitarist, but he was boring as hell to watch. If Chet was just starting today, he'd probably starve to death or go back to parking cars, or whatever he did before. Even the country music scene has finally realized that TV includes moving pictures...

The bottom line is still: If you love it, do it. Your head is already on so straight I see no point in offering any but technical advice at this point. Seems like your biggest hurdle right now is finding either a higher paying job or a mentor with a lot of idle gear they're not using... Steve
 
Another thing is that probably most of the places that you'll be playing at (small clubs, coffee shops, etc...) will probably have a decent PA system all ready. So you won't really need your own amp or a PA system. You could also try hooking up with some other local bands that has their own PA systems and open for them when they play bigger gigs.

So the two main things I would be considering right now is:
1. A pickup for you guitar OR use your 57 for micing the guitar and get a 58 for your vocals (the 58's are geared more towards vocals than the 57's).
2. An 8-Track portastudio (as said before).

Good luck. :)

-tkr
 
Hey, I finally have a chance to reply, I was out all weekend.. yay or something.

knightfly - I'm wondering about the whole entertaining thing a bit, so it's interesting that you bring up that point. Because I can play and sing pretty good, but I'm boring as.. bananas.. to watch. However, for my style of music (folk style, I'm told.. think of it more as a young Alannis Jewel-Tori Cranberry), I don't see the need to get the crowd going to get them to acknowledge me..dunno. How do you compensate with that style of music? Or if you're music's more laidback, shouldn't that be the atmosphere you set?

Tekker- I was wondering about that, actually. I thought it made sense if they'd have *something* to plug into and make noise with, but I'm not ashamed to say I really had no clue :)

But the biggest question is this. Can you just go acoustic if that's how your music is? I'm wondering how much more of a band I need. I know I WILL drag someone with me to do some lead guitar or sumfin, for moral support and 'cause my rhythm is decent but kinda lalalayawny. I know most of the people you hear have the whole shabang, drums and a ton of stuff to polish it up. I'm wondering how that would work for me.

Thanks for sticking with me here.. lemme know if any inspiration hits.
 
gear

Ice, check your private messages again, it's getting better- Richie(aka father Christmas)
 
If the venue is small enough and intimate enough, you can go totally acoustic if you voice is strong enough to carry over the guitar. For most clubs, the crowd noise will outdo you (there's more of them than you) So you need help (amplification) -

The general public is, for the most part, clueless when it comes to art appreciation. (Your closest, most die-hard fans being the exception) So you need something to wake them up and say, "Hey, dumbass - there's something going on that you should shut up and watch!"

Have you ever seen Emmy Lou Harris perform on TV? Were you still awake by the end of the song? She's a great singer and an OK guitar player (not guitarist, there's a difference) but boring as hell to watch. Even Jewel or Alannis, if you watch them, accentuate lyrics with body motions or facial expression changes, something to let you know (whether they are or not) that they're feeling what they sing. It's a proven fact that the more senses involved in an experience, the better you remember it. A lot of performers practice either in front of a mirror or a video camera, and they work on looking more "real", or whatever you want to call it. Probably more alive would be a good term.

"I don't see the need to get the crowd going to get them to acknowledge me.." - There are countless thousands of "never were" performers that thought that - back to the number of senses involved - if you can add emotion to that list, you're 'way ahead of the game. Name a performer you actually remember, that has no gimmick (something you first think about when their name comes up) -

On stage, EVERYTHING needs to be exagerated just to look normal. How many straight men do you see wearing makeup on the street?

The next time you see any of your favorite performers, either live or on TV, watch carefully and see if their motions/emotions look "normal", or if they would be considered a "drama queen" doing that same thing in person... Steve
 
knightfly - thanks for the tips. I think I was a bit misunderstood tho. True, I'm shy around people, but I can take control of myself and focus on the music when I'm asked to sing.. done it before.

By my comment that sounded like I was saying I didn't need to engage the crowd.. what I actually was trying to ask is if I really need to get them excited as everyone seems to say. It seems to be more of a rock 'n' roll trend.. being that my music is more whole and pure, it seems that it would ruin it to add too much to it to give it that stamp of approval for being so well "polished". I prefer to keep it the way it was intended.. I see by what you've said that basically you have to be an actress to do so. Not surprising to me, really, I just prefer that the attention be on the music and the message rather than ME. Unfortunately, if it's going to sell, there has to be a face to the emotions, I suppose. I guess I never liked feeling as though I were faking what I felt. But yet it's probably hard to feel the same way about a song you've played over and again.. to me my music is a way of expressing my feelings about something that's weighing heavily on me, and once I've done that I usually feel calmer about whatever it was and don't feel as strongly about it. Any ideas?
 
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