Technologically impaired vocalist

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IceFairy

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Okay so I have about 50 pointless questions I'd like to ask. I guess I'll start out with the easiest/least humiliating.
First off I have a low budget so what I can get is limited.. owing largely to the fact that I'm only 15 :P. I've been singing and playing guitar for a few years, so I decided to give in and get a halfway decent mic as a first step. I just bought a Shure Beta 57a microphone, and being too stubborn to ask what and where and how about what adapters I needed, I chased around town and harrassed a few annoying RadioShack employees before I finally figured it out and bought it for $25 from a local business (being that I was too lazy to wait a few days and have it shipped - I wanted to use it NOW) :).

So now that I've played around with it over the weekend and my question now is what to buy next?! I really don't want to spend more than $200 on my next piece of equipment, unless I can an extraordinary amount of use out of it. Soo this is the question.. since I'm using AcidPro/Cakewalk and doing home recording stuff.. should I focus on (and WHAT kind of what) gadgets to help out with this? Such as a mixer..

The other thing I've been considering is an amp.. sigh..

Any help would be appreciated.
 
What are you plugging your mic into? If the answer is "Soundblaster mic input" my next suggestion would be to get a preamp or mixer.
 
TexRoadkill said:
What are you plugging your mic into? If the answer is "Soundblaster mic input"
Click to expand...

You got it. I somewhat suspected this would be the answer.. which would be more useful in the longrun?
 
All things being equal, a mixer will give you more flexibility while a pre-amp will give you better, ah... preamps.

However, you won't get too much quality in either one for $200. You could consider a small Behringer mixer for that price (ahhhhh, can't believe I said that!!), it will at least get you started and will be an improvement on the SB Live.

What are you doing besides vocals. Is it all midi tracks, or do you play an instrument that you need to record as well?

BTW, I hope with the moniker IceFairy that you are of the female persuasion. Otherwise you'll have to go to the Boy George forum. :)
 
Okay I still have to admit to ignorance on the big difference between a preamp and a mixer.. I know it's there.. the only thing I'm guessing is that mixer would be more useful for other instruments.. which answers one of your questions. I also play acoustic guitar, which just needs to be run through the mic anyhow.

The $200 was more for whether or not I needed an amp right now, in which case I'd get something halfway decent to start off with(doesn't belong in the same sentence with $200, I know). Still.. even having to buy all that junk for my mic nearly drove me crazy and I'm just SICK OF BUYING STUFF :)(I bought a mic stand this morning too). I'd like to buy a money managing clone next and be done with it.

Anyhow, I just have a LOT to learn right now.. I'm used to having a recording monkey like my techno nerd brother around, and now that I have to do it myself it's becoming a pain.. I want to go for some sort of quality sound right now before I plunge into the recording scene.

That being said, the best thing I've seen so far is also the Behringer.. if I go the way of the mixer.

And yes. I'm female. I'm sure you're the first to point that out.. :P
 
My microphone

One more question.. I notice that around here people rave about the SM 57/58 mics.. I have a Beta 57a because it's supposedly ideal for vocals and acoustics... am I better off or worse? I know mine costs more than the others but nobody's really said much about it.
 
The beta is a little better than the regular SM's so you should be fine.

The main difference between preamps and mixers is that preamps are just that, a preamp. A mixer will usually have multiple pre's, line inputs and all sorts of goodies. What you should get really depends on how serious you are and how long you want the stuff to last. If you want an all in one solution and are just messing around than a behringer mixer would work fine. If you are in this for the long haul and looking to put together a more classy setup than there are many options that would make more sense.

FWIW the DMP3 seems to be the most popular simple preamp. The Mackie and Soundcraft mixers are the best cheap mixers you can get.
 
IceFairy said:
Are the Behringers respectable?
Click to expand...
They are decent learning tools and will get the job done. Most people outgrow them after a while and they don't have a very good resale value. I would generally recomend the Mackie or Soundcraft.
 
When I first started I used an MX620A (75 bucks at the time) with my cheap soundcard, and it was good enough to keep me inspired. However, it sits on a shelf now collecting dust.

The setup you're talking about will sound considerably better than a 4 track if you learn to use it well, but not like a real "pro's" studio. Like Tex said, if you're in it for the long haul, you're better off saving up for the good stuff. If you need stepping stones (like I did and still do), then I'd go with a little Behringer. It's a decent little mixer and it'll work just fine with your current setup. Just be aware that you'll probably outgrow it.
 
If you intend to do much with recording, you can save a lot of time trying to learn "audio-speak" this will make it so you don't have to ask 100 questions and wait for each answer in order to get to the one you really wanted to know - Any new area we get into has its own language, and until we learn a fair amount of that language it makes it really hard to ask the right questions.

For example, most people here know what preamp means, but we didn't start out that way. I could tell by your question, "Okay I still have to admit to ignorance on the big difference between a preamp and a mixer.. I know it's there.. the only thing I'm guessing is that mixer would be more useful for other instruments.. which answers one of your questions. I also play acoustic guitar, which just needs to be run through the mic anyhow. " - a quick example, then a couple of really helpful links that should get you up on "audio-speak" in a relatively short time - First, the term "preamp" is short for Pre-Amplifier, meaning just what it implies - this is an amplifier that takes a weak signal such as a mic or guitar signal, and amplifies the signal enough so that a second device, such as a power amplifier, or mixer, can use it with minimum noise and maximum signal. A preamp normally has one, two, four, or sometimes eight low level inputs, usually for microphones, and as many outputs, one for each input. Some preamps include a basic mixer, as in both inputs fed to one output. However, this is about all you get.

Mixers, on the other hand, usually have some preamps built in so you can connect mics directly to the mixer. These range in quality from total suck to amazing - amazing, in a built-in preamp, doesn't generally happen in the price range of most people on this BBS - this is a lot like the difference between a boombox (all in one) and multi-thousand dollar stereo systems with each component chosen for best fidelity, etc. A mixer, since it usually has several channels of preamp AND the circuitry to pan, Equalize, split off signal to outboard effects, and mix several tracks of audio down to a (usually) stereo pair, is a lot more complex than just a preamp. People generally buy separate preamps to get 1 or 2 channels of much higher quality audio into their systems for recording 1 or 2 channels ata time, than they could ever afford by getting a pro-quality large mixer with all top quality preamps.

This could go on til my finger dropped off, but a better way would be for you to check out these links, and click/read EVERYTHING you can absorb. Then, the next time someone uses a word assuming you know the meaning, you probably will... :=)

http://www.rane.com/digi-dic.html

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

there is a .pdf version of the rane dictionary, which I keep a copy of on my computer just so I can look up stuff when not online or on another site. Very helpful -

Depending on how "hooked" you get, this field can be a lifetime study and a source of amazement every day. I hope your experience is one of those... Steve
 
IceFairy - the Behringer would be a decent and inexpensive way for you to start. If you think about it, I'm sure that your first guitar wasn't a $4000 Martin, was it?

This will allow you to get some hands on recording experience for a relatively small up front investment, and the quality will be halfway decent.

The other option is to wait and ask for something better for your birthday or Christmas. :)
 
man... I really wish I had guilted my parents into buying me some gear when I was 15 :D
 
Thanks for all the suggestions.

I'm holding a low-pay summer job right now and I'll be back to groveling for what I can get from the higher authorities when school starts up again ;). And I'm really really tired of buying stuff. Not that it pains me monetarily.. I just don't feel like buying something that's gonna be a piece of crap. And as others on here have said, the only way you can really know is to test it out.

SeanMorsepersona: ANYTHING that'll improve on what I have will seem a miracle to me right now... I've been eating, drinking, and breathing inspiration and then dreaming of equipment ;). And even though I can do things like beg my way into a decent guitar, it doesn't always work that way. I have too much sympathy and usually end up being the one they lay the guilt trip on :).

knightfly: ouch. I suppose I should do a little crash studying before I go out into the wide world of all those fancy contraptions they keep throwing out there, eh? I've always been more into the art than the technology of music; guess it's time to give in and reach out to my inner nerd. Thanks :).

dachay: My first guitar was the electric Alvarez I used to steal from my brother, then I had to give in and get one of my own when he moved... soo.. I made my dad buy it. However, I'm a sucker for the I'm-a-poor-old-man guise, so Christmas is out :).

By the way I'll soon have something up on the mixing clining, so keep an eye or two out there. You might be suprised.
 
IceFairy said:
However, I'm a sucker for the I'm-a-poor-old-man guise, so Christmas is out :).
Click to expand...
Wow, I wish you were my kid. That poor-old-man line never worked for me. :)

Good luck with your music. You seem to have the passion, which is a good start. Put that together with talent, perseverence and (most of all) luck, and you could have a great career ahead of you.

And lastly, remember that bad equipment never stood in the way of good talent, and good equipment won't make the musically-challenged any easier to listen to.

And lastly again (really this time!), crap is a relative term. There is always better equipment. You need to think of better equipment as a journey, because, unfortunatley, you never get to the destination.
 
First, I agree completely with dachay's last post - secondly, I have to say that it's obvious to me from the literacy level of your posts, that as a 15-year old you kick butt on some 40+ year olds, and should have no problem whatever absorbing the information you'll need NOT to get taken to the cleaners on your gear purchases.

The main thing to remember is NOT to give in to impulse - yeah, the old joke about the two buzzards sitting on the cactus, with one saying to the other,"Patience my ass, I'm gonna KILL something..." is only funny as a joke, not as in "Gee, I just spent all my money on this wiz-bang, and it only wiz's or bangs, but not BOTH at the same time... Point is, pure and simple; salesmen lie. Usually, it's just a "sin of omission", where they don't tell you what the thing CAN'T do. Example: a company brags about 24 bit in their ad, but says nothing about 96 k sample rate. Guess what? It's because it's not there. If they CAN do it, you'd better believe they'll shout about it. Example 2: A company says nothing about insert points or direct outs on a mixer (really handy for recording cleanly to a DAW) - Reason: See example #1...

The more you learn about HOW recording gear works and HOW people normally use it, the better choices you'll make within your budget. The main way to keep artistic concerns high on the priority list, is to buy only things that make the recording process as transparent as possible. It is 'way too easy to get bogged down with routine mechanics of recording when one little feature like insert points isn't on the mixer you bought. Just one example of many...

As literate and respectful as you are, you remind me of my own daughter when she was 15 (she's 33 now, running her own business)

My advice to you (free, what does that tell you?) is don't change anything about yourself. With your attitude and apparent (to me, anyway) study habits, anything that is humanly possible can be yours if you want it strongly enough. I too would be as proud to call you my daughter as I am of my own... Steve
 
dachay: I tend to agree with you.. but I have no room to speak until I at least have the lower piece of equipment as my first stepping stone.. thanks for the hints. By the way, don't wish for adoption too quickly; I find ways to be assertive without being demanding :).

knightfly: thanks again for the advice.. I'll be doing my homework before I start any threads here again, hehe.. with any luck the next thing I post should be a song (I'm working on one now, with a little help of course). I'll keep your other suggestions in mind, too.. hopefully I'll find a rewarding path in life, although seeing how caught up I'm getting in this music thing that path just might come with the title "starving musician" :).

And it seems like I finally found the perfect piece of equipment to buy within my budget right now.. nothing! By the time I figure out what I'm doing I'll probably have enough money saved to buy 3 of what I want *laughs*.
 
"And it seems like I finally found the perfect piece of equipment to buy within my budget right now.. nothing! By the time I figure out what I'm doing I'll probably have enough money saved to buy 3 of what I want *laughs*."

PREC-"ICE"-KULLY... :=)
 
Ice,
You said something important when you said you have all this inspiration...I did too and still do. Dont worry too much about out growing the equipment. Get the Behringer...like a Eurorack MX802A or something and start with that...or just get a little 4 track. I have both and have recently purchased a pre amp and now, while I am older and thus have more money to blow...now Im about as wise as you are to this and have this cool equipment to play with, but I'm still posting requests for help to learn how to use it all! Some one said once "dont get wrapped around the axil"......just get something to write with and write your words and music down on paper and play them until you get the equipment you want. My best recordings were the first ones, in an air lock aboard a Navy ship out in the Gulf last year....it was hot and nasty and the mic was suspended from the ceiling with duct tape (which slipped and fell down on me while recording!). Anyway, the quality of the sound will come in time for us Newbies...just get what you can and play with it and learn it. I think we will get a couple years out of our first purchases (at least) until we feel we have out grown any of them.

Good luck...
 
Ice, you were joking, but you're basically right. Sometimes the best thing to buy is nothing. I did 6 months of serious research and ran potential gear lists before multiple engineers before I bought my first piece of serious gear, and I haven't regretted it a bit. It's OK to get advice from pro audio salesmen, but check every bit of it out with uninvolved experts before you buy.
Basically, you have a decision to make right off the bat. What kind of recorder are you going to record on? Most likely, it'll either be on a stand alone hard drive recorder, or your computer. I'm in the minority that chose a console (stand alone), and there are arguments for and against both.
Once you've made that decision, you will need to select mics appropriate to what you intend to record. What you do then will depend on the recording medium you've chosen, and the number and type of signals you wish to record. After the mics, you will need stands, high quality cables, and some materials for room conditioning to improve the acoustics of wherever you're recording.
Over time, you will add either specialized outboard units or their software equivalents to get effects (reverb in particular), compression, and to upgrade the preamps in your soundcard or recorder, at least for a couple of channels. First, decide on your initial budget and build the basics. Most importantly, aside from the recorder or sound card, which will not be top of the line to start with, try to buy inexpensive items that pro studios list on their lists of auxiliary equipment, or for their B or C rooms. So you start with a Shure SM57 mic, because it's $80, and you will not find a pro studio that does not own several. What this means is you'll add to that mic collection, but you'll never need to sell that mic.
This board can be bewildering, because only some of the people here are experts (not me), and those who are often have different opinions. Back to what you said- sometimes the best thing to buy is nothing- until you're really sure what a mixer and preamp are, for instance, and can quote the top 5 of each in your price range and name the best on line price for each one and contrast their different features. The money you save will be your mother's, and your benefactors will respect the research you've done, and know that you are serious about this. Keep posting your questions. You're doing OK- We're all in this together-Richie
 
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