Technical PC Question. Please help.

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Uladine

Uladine

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My piece of shit 1 year old PC is giving me greif for the first time since I got it. (It won't start up anymore.)

First, let me provide a bit of background info (this is gonna be long).

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My PC has an AMD Athlon XP1600 Processor, 512 MB SDR ram and two maxtor 7200 hard drives. A 20 gig for the OS and programs, and a 40 gig for the audio data. I use windows 98 for the OS and Sonar for my multi tracking needs.

This machine has worked flawlessly until a couple months ago, when I started having to defrag the audio drive every week or so. I figured this was normal and I just reached a point where I had enough data on the drive to require regular defragging. I also regularly use the "clean audio disk" function in sonar to remove unused audio files.

A couple weeks ago we had a power outtage while I was using the PC. Ouch. I had it on a surge protector, but no backup system. After the power came on I started it up and it ran scan disk and worked fine.

A few days later I took the PC out to my bands practice space to try to track some guitars. We tracked guitars for a couple days without a problem. Until last night...

I went out there to check out what we did so far. It was doing fine for about a half hour, but when I started to try to play my audio projects with a significant number of audio tracks, I kept getting dropouts and noticed the audio disk was working really hard. I figured "oh great, I have to defrag AGAIN". Just for the hell of it though, I cleaned the audio disk and restarted the computer.

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Heres where it got weird on me.

When it started up again it started scandisk saying it detected improper shut down. WTF?

This isnt the regular scandisk, this is the one that does the surface scan that takes hours. I couldnt leave the PC there, so I packed it up and brought it home so I could run scandisk here.

I started running scandisk so it could do its thing while I did mine. This took hours as it kept stopping at each bad cluster waiting for a command from me to fix it or leave it alone. I ended up having to cancel scandisk at about 2 in the morning so I could go to bed.

Today I wake up to run scandisk on my OS drive through windows. When I started the computer it said I needed to run scandisk. It started scandisk by itself, but I cancelled it and ran scandisk from windows, so I could have it fix the errors automatically. I let it run for a couple hours, but then when I went to check on it the computer froze up. It would not respond to anything, so I ctrl+alt+deleted to restart.

It tried to run scandisk again. I cancelled and ran it through windows. When I came back there was a weird knocking noise coming from the tower. I moved the mouse to turn the monitor back on. (I use the automatic monitor shutoff instead of a screen saver) No response. Hit space bar. No response. ctrl+alt+delete. no response. ctrl+alt+delete twice. No restart. I shut it down manually.

When I tried to start it up again to attempt scandisk for the third time, it would detect all the drives and ask for my password like usual, but then it would say "press a key to reboot" I do so, put in my password, same message. Over and over again. It won't even start anymore.

Can anyone please tell me whats going on with my machine and how to fix it?

Please tell me I dont need a new hard drive. I'm laid off of work and have no money, yet I was going to use this time off to record a demo. Is there a way to save the data on the hard drive? Do I have to reformat? I am really starting to regret going the PC route at this point.
 
Any knocking sound from a hard drive is bad news, if that is the source.

Which password are you referring to, when you log on to windows?

Try unplugging the ide ribbon from the 40GB audio drive and see if it will boot normally to windows.
 
A friend of mine was having the same problem on an XP machine. He put in his windows XP disc in the CD to boot off of that but when he did the regular boot up it worked. I'm not sure what he did and neither is he but having the XP cd in the tray seemed to allow XP to fix whatever the problem was.

He also would have to defrag regularly or he would get weird lockups and crashes. I never have that problem with XP so I don't know what the deal is.

With 98SE I used to always reboot in safe mode before running a defrag or full scandisk. That was because the screensavers and power saving options would mess it up. I'm not sure if you need to do that with XP or not.
 
I'm reffering to the password that you set up in setup, before windows starts. I set the password up to keep my girlfriends brother from getting on it and messing with stuff. It prompts me for the password right after it detects all of the drives.

I will go try to start it up with the 40 gig HD unplugged right now.
 
With XP I was refering to the kind of processor I have. My OS is win 98. I'm sorry for the confussion.

I'll try to start it up in safe mode when I unplug the 40 gig. I'll be right back.
 
I tried unplugging the 40 gig hard drive. when I start it this way it says "boot disk error. insert system disk and press enter"

I also tried pressing F8 to try safe mode, but it wont work. is there another way to do this? or is my hard drive so fucked up that it cant even operate in safe mode? The knocking noise is scary. I went to the website I bought the PC from and realized I have a one year warranty on parts, so I'll be calling them tomorrow. I'm just worried I'll have to send my whole PC back to them. Thats scary. If they need only the defective hard drive, is there a way to install windows on my audio disk without erasing the data already on it so I can at least get a bit of use out of my computer?
 
Sure you unplugged the right one?

Is your OS on the 40GB or 20GB?
 
Yea I'm sure that my OS is on the 20 gig, because all my windows folders are on drive C, which shows its capacity of 20 gb when you view its properties. My 40 gig drive is under the drive letter D.

At first I wasn't sure if I was unplugging the right drive either, so I plugged the first one back in and unplugged the other drive, but then it wouldn't detect the primary master drive. So I'm sure the first one I unplugged was the secondary hard drive.
 
After unplugging the 40GB you may want to go into BIOS and make sure that it is set to boot from the 20GB. Boot options are flexible these days. Usually, if your 20GB were set to master on the primary channel, unplugging your 40GB should be no problem, but I can't see through this monitor into your computer as to how the ribbons are connected.

Unplugging the 40GB is a shot in the dark, but I've run across similiar situations. All I'm trying to determine is if it is that drive that is stopping the boot. If it is or isn't, why. The knocking sound you describe is not good, if it is coming from your 40GB and not some other aberration.

Check the bios boot sequence, your 20GB should appear and be set as a boot device.
 
I checked the BIOS, and to my dismay the boot sequence showed no hard drive what so ever.

This is the thing that worries me though. I looked at both drives and varified that the 20 gig is at the end of the IDE cable, and the 40 gig is attached to the plug in the middle of the IDE cable. This would indicate that the 20 gig is the primary disk, right? The problem is no matter which one I have plugged into the end of the cable, my computer doesnt detect a primary master drive. I plugged the end of the cable into the 40 gig and unplugged the power from the 20 gig. No knocking noise, but still the boot disk error pops up. I figure this is because there is no OS on the 40 gig drive.

So now I know that the knocking noise is indeed coming from the 20 gig hard drive as the only way to stop the noise is to unplug the power cable from the 20 gig. Is there any way to salvage it or is it a permanent physical problem? I imagine it must be pretty fucked up to make a knocking noise, but I'm trying to be optimistic. I will reformat if I have to, but I don't want to waste my time trying to reformat a useless HD.

Would it be possible to take the HD from this computer and plug it into the primary socket of the recording comp to see if it will boot? I dont want to mess this computer up too, so stop me if its a bad idea, but I'm trying to eliminate the motherboard and IDE cable as possible suspects. It seems weird to me that my bios doesnt show a hard drive on the boot sequence. it instead shows my cd drives. All of my drives are set to Auto by the way, as I dont know how to configure them manually. They've been working fine this way for about a year, so I don't think it is the problem.

Thanks everyone for all your help so far.
 
Well that's good. Narrowed down to your 20 gig drive being the probable culprit.

No need to reformat or even be optimistic, won't do any good. Mechanical problem.

You need a new hard drive for your operating system/boot drive. Good news is your audio data is still there. It's backed up on CD-R anyway though right?

Not conclusive, but this is what I gather so far.

You can download a diagnostic utility from maxtor.com and run it on the 20GB. It should give you some error code.

http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/powermax.htm

"Would it be possible to take the HD from this computer and plug it into the primary socket of the recording comp to see if it will boot?"

Stop. It will probably boot, and that could be your replacement OS drive if you need to get your recordings completed. A reformat/reinstall is advised though.
 
Well my mom said if I seal the grout on her new tile she'll buy a new HD for me. Sounds like a good deal to me. I still want to try and get my defective HD replaced under warranty, then maybe I can have a backup. Thanks for all of your help. Hopefully a new HD will fix the problem.
 
yea, as soon as scandisk finds a bad block, your hdd is bad. if you can get norton on there, you might - might be able to read some of the data. but if you can't get to it at all, it's history. in the shop, as soon as there was even one 'B' up there on the monitor, it's new hdd time. we couln't spend the time waiting for some scan program to go thru those, they could be everywhere, even one or two took too long for us. at $100 an hour the customer wan't gonna have us try to recover data either....

the drive i'm on now has litte screetches here and there, i hear that sound and i know it's done soon. so i'm backing up on cdr a lot, and waiting....
 
Sorry I had not read this earlier.

The situation is a familiar one to me, and everyone has it figured out. The drive is bad. They usually go in a manner exactly how you described, a slow deterioration over a few days. Mosy likely the mechanism with the drive head, but that is really illrelevant, since it's not something that can be fixed.

You may be able to return the drive directly to its manufacturer without worrying about where the PC came from. Most drive manufacturers recently cut their warrenties from 3 years to 1, but if the PC is new there is a good chance its covered. If you can find another PC and get to the web, you can check it's warrenty status just by running the serial number.
 
heh and whatever you do, dont mention the power outtage to your PC maker, or the fact you subjected your puter to an outtage without a UPS =P
Thats not usually covered under most warrantys
 
Before you give up, I would try installing Windows 2000, or XP Pro. I have seen almost this VERY same type of problem on 98 boxes in the past, and without fail, they go away with either a new install of the OS. I have NEVER seen this type of problem using the NT kernal though. NEVER!

Try reinstalling the OS. Windows 98 starts to break down after about 6 months unless you have gone to great care to "maintain" it.

Ed
 
Man, all my plugin's effect presets reside on the O/S drive, dont they? I guess those will be gone. Anyone know how to back those up for future reference? Is there any possible way to retrieve any date from the drive?(<--hopeless optimism, I know.)

I'm having trouble finding 20 gig hard drives in retail stores any more. 40 seems to be the low end. I guess I'll have to fork out extra money though unless I buy online. I guess I'll have a new 20 gig as a "backup" when I get my warranty exchange taken care of.

Thanks for the heads up about the power outtage thing. I need to get a backup power supply when I go back to work. Thanks for all your help guys.
 
20 gigs are hard to come by now. I dont know if they even make em anymore. Check ebay...lots of 40-80gig drives going for less than $100
 
Also, shop around at local stores. Some of the drives out there have killer mail in rebates !
 
CD burners are cheap now $50 and you get 48x speed. 30 cent disks, nice. IDE Internal interface good if you use secondary master. Are your drives sharing same chain? Not sure performance issues if you have cd on secondary sharing data drive. maybe keep data drive as master on the secondary and cd burner as slave, or go firewire for external stuff, cd or hdd, but a bit more money for interface if you don't have it and external drive enclosures...
 
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