TDIF soundcard option advice needed

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wooker

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I have a Tascam TM-D1000 digital mixer that I want to interface via TDIF (so I can record 8 tracks simultaneously) for use with Sonar XL (& Win. 98). Can anyone tell me of success -or problems- with a particular type of soundcard. I don't need fancy features, just the above functionality ie I'm also looking for the lowest possible price. I'd be extremely grateful for any feedback, though.
Many thanks. -Wooker
 
I don't have any experience with this particular problem, but I went through a lot of research before I settled on my setup.
You can get a converter for that mixer that will adapt TDIF to ADAT. $219 at 8thStreet
http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=1743&Category=Recording_Accessories

Then get a Wavecenter PCI card by Frontier Designs. $289.

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=7265&Category=Audio_Interfaces

I talked to someone that has the Frontier Tango - a breakout box hooked up to the Wavecenter - and was told the Frontier drivers for Sonar are excellent.

For that $, I think they'll ship for free, and no taxes to NJ.

Let me repeat, I have no idea if this will work for you, but it's a start. If it does, you've got yourself a nice setup.
 
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TDIF soundcard (for TMD1000>Cakewalk)?

Thanks for the response & I will check out the options you mentioned. But I have found soundcards on the net with direct TDIF connection ($250 & up). They just don't mention which programs they work with, etc. and being an old-school musician/recorder & newbie to computer audio, I don't know which details to look for to find the answer myself. Any options/ideas are welcome and appreciated, though. Thanks again.
 
I have a MOTU 2408...

It has three TDIFs, If you just use one of them, you would still be able to use the 8 analog ins and outs. It works great with SONAR.

I have also heard good things about the RME Hammerfall.
 
TDIF soundcards (Tascam>Cakewalk)

Schwa,
Thanks for the response. I checked out both and both are a bit out of my price range (MOTU $900/Hammerfall $500) but both also (accordingly) offer more than I need. My mixer (Tascam TM-D1000) already has the 8 inputs (and 8 return channels) with one TDIF port to send them out and back. All I (think I) need is a soundcard with a single TDIF port to be able to send them out to 8 separate tracks in Sonar. I have found some (ex.'s:Midiman Delta $260 & Tascam PCI 822 $300) but again, being a comp.audio newbie, I don't know what to look for in the details to know why one choice is better than the other re:reliability, functionality w/Cakewalk, etc. Any and all advice is welcome though and thanks to everyone involved in this forum for helping each other out just for the sake of helping each other out.
 
A couple important points...

It is very important that you match your card's drivers with the software. SONAR works best under Win2K and its WDM drivers. There are cards out there that are quite capable, but don't have WDM drivers, though this is changing with time. Some cards have good ASIO drivers which work with Cubase and Logic, but not SONAR.

Of the two cards you mentioned, Delta does have good WDM drivers, but I am not familiar with the state of drivers for the tascam card. I didn't think the Delta family offers a card with a TDIF interface.

Given your situation, you should look or a card with a TDIF interface as well as a good WDM driver. Be aware that the WDM support for Win98 is kind of iffy, Win2k, or XP would work better. Try and find at least one person who is happy with the card before you buy, its a drag to drop the cash, and find out that you're just another one of many who is having trouble.
 
TDIF>Sonar XL

Thanks for the advice but now I'm getting really confused. I checked the Tascam website forum and people there said that the TDIF PCI 822>Sonar XL doesn't work properly with Win2K but does work with 98 & ME though I did also find another comment about some of the 'iffyness' with 98 you referred to. Not sure about XP. Help...
As for the Delta TDIF, I found it at Zzounds.com as "Maudio by Midiman Delta TDIF 24bit 48kHz PCI interface" for $260. I haven't yet found anyone who's used it with this setup, though.
 
sound scape mixtreme

the mixtreme has two tdif inputs allowing for 16 channels on my card. Many mixtreme users have the tascam mixer.
 
TDIF interfaces

Thanks. Two TDIF ports are tempting in case I want to expand later (add another TMD1K,etc.) but right now funds are low and I need to find the simplest/cheapest option just to do 8 track simultaneous to Sonar. I think the mixtreme is a bit out of my price range, though all I was able to find was bundle packages. Do they make a simple TDIF interface card without the "extras"? Ex.- equivalent of Tascam PCI 822/ Midiman Delta TDIF.
I still haven't found anyone who's using the Midiman with this setup. I have also found the SEK'd Prodif T 2496 (24-bit/96kHz) but haven't been able to find a price on it...
Issue summary at a glance:
Looking for TDIF interface to run TMD1000 via TDIF to Sonar XL with Win. 98.
Basic interfaces/prices found (in $300 range):
Tascam PCI 822 ($300)
Midiman Delta TDIF($250)
SEK'D Prodif T 2496(?)

Searches done at:
Zzounds
American Musical
Mus. Friend
Sweetwater
Sam Ash
Edirol

Feedback:
PCI 822 good
Win 98 bad> use Win 2000/XP with Sonar XL

Can you/anyone add to that list re: options and where to buy/check info
 
relax i'm fom the old school and it's not as complex as it seems.
SONAR is just software and will work with any(windows) audio card/interface
the 9x windows does not use the latest/greatest "windows streaming kernel"
(translation _it will work fine with any windows operating system 9x, 2000, xp it just not quite as powerful which is a concern if you are into running large amounts of a synths and other software(efx) features on the same pc as sonar )
if you are recording instruments and voices etc then it is not as important.
I use 98 in with pro audio 9 and run gigasampler, reaktor and fruity loops all at the same time, and don't have too much trouble
If you are doing "normal" recording then a decent pc will be more than adequate for most situations.
the cards you mention are made by well known companies and i would feel confident in purchasing any of them for the purpose you want _tdm-pc connection.
the tascam card is made by the same company as your mixer, the maudio sells the most popular cards out there.
from what i've heard the mixer is no easy learning curve
you should be able to sort out any problems with a little patience and help.
good luck
 
TDIF quest cont'd.

Kennedy,
No stress. I'm just trying to get as much information as possible so that I'm sure I make the right choice on the first try and get on to making music (Schwa's input re:WDM drivers/support being a vital example, though that also raised the Win. 98 vs. 2000 issue).
As for the complexity, fortunately I guess, I don't have too many options. I already have Win. 98 so I guess I'm going to try anything on that first. It comes down to the details between the 2-3 cards I've found. $50 more for the PCI 822 is well spent if it offers more features/reliability than the Midiman. If not, then that's the cost of a TDIF cable and then some. Still no luck on finding anyone who's used the Midiman w/this configuration, or much info at all on the SEK'D but I'm learning a lot.
Thanks for the details re: OS's. Very helpful since, yes, most of what I want to do is record analog instruments and I still plan to use the dynamics/fx processors on the TMD1000 to take some of the load off the computer, among other reasons.
The TMD's learning curve, by the way, isn't as bad as it's rap. I've been using it for a while with an outboard (MD Datadisk)multitrack and it's an amazing piece of equipment (especially for the price). Getting around the menus is more intuitive than it seems and the video tutorial covers everything and is time-coded for quick reference. I got it for it's flexibility and expandability. The TDIF port is one I didn't know I'd ever be using at the time I bought it but now it's perfect for what I want to do. I am having some signal problems with two of my group outs right now and I have to take it into the shop, but overall I highly recommend it.
 
tdm 1000

i,ve been eyeballing them on ebay lately and the price is fantastic
i've heard other good things from people about them too.
the odd thing is i have been to two large music stores in my area and haven't seen one for sale. Where did you purchase yours?


when i first started this stuff i didn't even know how to work a mouse ......so i related to wanting to get it right the first time...but one thing i have surmised is that trouble shooting is a very important aspect to computer audio and time studying the situation is money in the bank.
I still reccomend the soundscape card check out soundchaser.com and it is possible to purchase the card without all the extras.
 
TMD1K/TDIF/Soundcards

I got my board at Guitar Center and I know I've seen them in a few catalogs (on&off-line); I'll try to find which ones if you want.
As for the card quest, I think I've at least narrowed it down to the Maudio & the Tascam. The SEK'D is a dual TDIF,etc. and sells for $600 and if my info is correct the Mixtreme card alone lists for $550. That puts both out of my price-range, if not also offering more than I need right now.
One key difference I've found between the Delta and the PCI 822 is that the former has stereo analogs I/O's but not Midi, and the latter has dual DIN-5 Midi I/O's but not analog. I need to find out more about the +/- of each with my setup. I do run my comp's audio out to my stereo and burn to an outboard Pioneer CD recorder but that all goes through the board and I also have a MIDI capable synth and the MIDI features on the TMD. Anyway, here's the rest...

---DELTA Specs:

8-channel TDIF digital input and output on standard TDIF-1 connector
10x10 24-bit/96khz (48khz TDIF) full-duplex recording interface
TDIF-to-S/PDIF or S/PDIF-to-TDIF conversion in real time

Stereo coaxial S/PDIF digital input and output
Stereo analog input and output with high dynamic range and low distortion
S/PDIF output simultaneously sent to analog outputs for monitoring convenience
Syncs with: internally generated clock, clock derived from S/PDIF input, or word clock from incoming TDIF

Hardware sample-accurate sync will allow linking of multiple Delta units
Analog Signal: +2dBV(consumer setting), -2dBV(-10 setting).
THD: less than 0.002% @ 0dBFS
Freq. Response: 22Hz-44kHz, -0.4,-0.4dB (96kHz sample rate)
Dynamic Range (a-weighted): D/A 104.0dB, A/D 100.4dB
Input Impedance: 10k ohms minimum.
Connectors: Gold-plated RCA female, on break-out cable.
TDIF Sample Rate: 8kHz to 48kHz
TDIF I/O Format: 8x8 simultaneous (parallel) input and output
TDIF Connector: DB25 female on PCI board
S/PDIF Sample Rate: 8kHz to 96kHz
S/PDIF Input Format: Coaxial, 0.5V to 5V peak-to-peak
S/PDIF Output Format: Coaxial, 0.5V peak-to-peak; also configurable to output AES/EBU format data stream at 0.5V peak-to-peak
S/PDIF Connectors: Gold-plated RCA female, on breakout cable
Word clock output on breakout cable’s BNC connector

Minimum System Requirements (PC)
Windows 95, 98,NT, 2000 or ME
Pentium II 266Mhz - (96kHz operation)
Pentium 200 MMX - (48kHz operation)
128 MB of PC100 RAM - (96kHz)
64 MB of SDRAM - (48kHz)
UDMA EIDE or SCSI HDD
Comprehensive digital mixing, routing, and monitoring capabilities with included Delta Control Panel software

---PCI 822 Specs:

Digital audio inputs:
8 channels TDIF-1 format
2 channels S/PDIF format on RCA (coax) input

Digital audio outputs:
8 channels TDIF-1 format
2 channels S/PDIF format on RCA (coax) output

MIDI I/O: 2 MIDI inputs + 2 MIDI outputs; standard DIN-5 connectors

Word clock output: BNC connector; drives 75-ohm input to TTL levels

Breakout cable: For S/PDIF, MIDI, and word clock connectors

Sample rates: 44.1 and 48 kHz internal; input tracking from 39-51 kHz

Audio data: 16-, 20-, 24-bit resolution

Software:
Windows 95/98 device driver (MME, ASIO, GigaSampler)
MacOS 8.5 (or later) device driver (ASIO, OMS)
Control panel for displaying status and setting options
Nemesys' GigaSampler LE is included (a $99.00 value) so you can take advantage of powerful software-based digital sampling.
plus 2 CDs packed with pre-recorded samples. Special GSIF PC driver supports up to 10 GigaSampler audio output channels.

I can't find the rest of the signal specs (THD, FR, etc.) for this one -even Tascam's page doesn't list them.

And the search continues...
 
In case you don't have enough to think about...

You may be able to control faders in Sonar with the Tascam via midi timecode. I have done this with the mixer section of my VS-880. I've posted the settings for the VS in a previous post. When you are ready, it may be something you want to try.
 
TMD1K>Sonar

Thanks. That would be sweet indeed. I do(and probably always will) prefer to have my hands on the faders,etc. rather than my mouse whenever possible. I'll check into it. Don't know if the soundcard features make a difference re: that function, but those are the kind of details I'm trying to figure out now...
 
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