Taste is everything, technique means nothing

[Chris Tondreau]

Which leads me to wonder, incidentally, whether there are ANY playing techniques that have been invented by us rock and rollers. I'm just brainstorming here, but I'd say Hendrix invented a lot of "electronic" techniques (judicious use of feedback, etc.) and this was where his true talent was - as a sculptor of sound, not really as a technical player. I don't know if he invented any playing techniques. EVH did NOT invent the right hand tapping technique. Stanley Jordan had already been doing that for years, and I think there were others before him that used it too, but Jordan just refined it. I'm SURE there is not a right hand "non-pick" technique around that wasn't already perfected by Segovia, and in all probability, pioneered by someone before him - perhaps Fernanado Sor. Randy Rhodes was famous for doubling his solos perfectly on the first take, but that's not a playing technique more than it is a demonstration of consistency of skill combined with a basic recording technique made popular by Phil Spectre.

I'm thinking pick squeals/pinch harmonics must have been invented by one of us rockers, but I can't think of who. (Hendrix?)

Any thoughts?

Chris

 

[flapo1]

Maybe Dragonworks should have said "Thechnique is nothing without taste" I can agree better with that.

 

[GONZO-X]

taste is always important......

and so is technique.

I personally, have a hard time listening to even tasteful playing, without a certain level of technique happening there.....

i mean think about it.......
if you applied that comment to everything, then everything would melt down to mediocrity, and there would be no bar to reach for, no reason to ever get better.

rehash, rehash, rehash....... can you say "rehash"?

i know of many guitar players that have blistering technique, and also have immense taste.

Taste is in your mouth, you know.



i hear this comment a lot, it mostly comes from underachievers that will never work hard enough to overcome their own lack of talent or vision.


that's not to say that one can't completely be enthralled by a crude player like keith richards or neil young.

Why does your mind have to be so closed and stuck in the mud?

Someone that has enough technique, to really play what's in their head........ that's what i aspire to be.........

and it's always about trying to play from the heart, whether that's a tasteful moment or not, for me......

but when i read statements like this, these blanket statements, there's this one thought that races through my mind............

"sour grapes"

 

[Toki987]

I look at technique as "knowing how to put it, and where. I look at taste as "knowing what not to put, and when."

 

[acorec]

I look at technique as "knowing how to put it, and where. I look at taste as "knowing what not to put, and when."

Right. There are guitar TECHNICIANS : Steve Vai for example
SV can play very well. SV cannot write a song to save his life.

 

[Thwok!]

Taste vs. Technique

I just come off a trollish thread on most overpaid underskilled guitarists, which included Eric Clapton, Carlos Santana, and George Harrison on its list, only to land in this one - which is almost diametrically opposed. I resisted the temptation to reply to the other one, raising the whole "taste" issue. I'm glad to see the subject broached here.

The modern world of music is full of examples of all possible combinations of poor taste, poor technique, good taste, good technique, and more extremes on both ends. Whether you enjoy good taste and/or good technique is a matter of taste, which supports the original premise.

We guitarists can sometimes be carried away by awesome technique, but most seasoned musicians eventually realize that a bunch of excess noodling doesn't add to the music, even if it is done at outrageous speed. That goes for any of the high end techniques - they're great if they add to the music and fit it. When done for purposes of displaying technique, they should be done in songs that are designed with that in mind. I'm sure a lot of the material generated by some artists is meant to be a vehicle to display technique.

Whether you like it or not is a matter of taste . . .

 

[Chris Tondreau]

I look at technique as "knowing how to put it, and where. I look at taste as "knowing what not to put, and when."

Eloquent in its simplicity..... beautiful!!!

Chris

 

[Jeff_D]

Very open minded I see.

Dont even know who the band is, so quicklt out with the F$&# word...

i've never heard if it/ them- im askin what is it? and whats that got to do with how open my mind is Mr. Sarcastinator?

 

[GONZO-X]

here you go kremitmusic...........

http://www.dreamtheater.net/


Dream theatre is considered one of the preiminent prog rock bands around, in that, they've been at it a long time, had some fairly good top 100 sucess, a lot of mtv play about 7 years or so ago, and john petrucci (the guitar player) keeps a pretty high profile doing seminars and doing the 2nd G3 tour with joe satriani and steve vai.......

 

[M.Brane]

How many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Five!
























One to change the bulb, the other four to stand there with their arms folded, and say: "I could have done it better than that!"

 

[sheppard]

hes not really that good

 

[Sjonesmusic]

Technique is the ability to execute one's own ideas and communicate them clearly...

B.B. King has incredible technique....for what HE needs to do to pull of HIS ideas....

Allan Holdsworth has incredible technique...for what HE needs to do, to pull of HIS ideas...

NEITHER needs the technique of the other...though, there is nothing wrong with versatility...

Taste is that subjective level of discernment within EVERY player, to judge what is right for THEM, within any given moment...

Some have less discernment than others...playing out of context, and stepping on musical moments for their ego's satisfaction...

Those with more discernment, know how to be a benefit to ANY situation, playing for the sake of what adds to a musical moment...

Here's a clip from a blues gig back in 1998:

Sjones-slow blues solo 1998

Here's a tune from my fusion CD:

"Convergence" © 2003 Scott Jones

Each required a different approach of taste and technique...

MY two cents....of course...

Peace,

Scott

--------------------------------

My Fusion C.D. on Holdsworth's label, Gnarly Geezer

My Fusion C.D., to be re-released on Progressive Arts-Summer 2003

Soundclips from my Fusion CD

C.D. Reviews and Support

My VIDEO page-clips of me playing

 

[GhettoWayz]

I'd say Jimi Hendrix invented whammy bar techniques that previously weren't around.
I'd say Eddie Van Halen was the first to orchestrate the tapping thing within a rock context into a technique that previously eluded the rock community.

Stanley Jordan is not a rock n roller.
He did not write Panama or Jamie's Cryin.

Steve Vai invented scales new modes and many guitar techniques that previously eluded the rock community.
Like the talking guitar gig.

I'd say lots of invention has happened in rock guitar, if you have open ears to hear them.

 

[Chris Tondreau]

I'd say Jimi Hendrix invented whammy bar techniques that previously weren't around.

Agreed.... good one!

I'd say Eddie Van Halen was the first to orchestrate the tapping thing within a rock context into a technique that previously eluded the rock community.

Stanley Jordan is not a rock n roller.
He did not write Panama or Jamie's Cryin.[/QUOTE]

So it previously eluded the rock community.... he still didn't pioneer it in any way. He just brought it to a new audience.

Steve Vai invented scales new modes and many guitar techniques that previously eluded the rock community.
[/QUOTE]

Not that I can think of.... Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, etc., whole tone scales..... all of that stuff has been around for ages and ages... Most of the traditional modes originated in church music in the midieval period. So they previously eluded the rock community... he still didn't really pioneer them in any way. He just brought it to a new audience.

Chris

 

[GhettoWayz]

Steve Vai invented scales.

yes Chris, diatonic modal scales have been around forever, but as Steve himself explained it in a 93 interview.

"I created 16 eqaul divisions to the octave in the key of 'E. I've created scales with 9 eqaul notes to an octave."

By the way, the 10 note scale Steve invented is called: "Xavian Scale."
Steve broke down half steps into 60 seperate tones.

Steve also has a guitar with 16 frets to the octave,

 

[Freudian Slip]

Re: Steve Vai invented scales.

Steve also has a guitar with 16 frets to the octave,

Wha.. Wha.. WHaaaaaaaT?



F.S.

 

[Chris Tondreau]

Okay, point taken. I don't really follow Vai that much, but I do know, from listening and from seeing him when he played with DLR, that he's got chops from hell. Unfortunately, I also blame him for almost single-handedly destroying Whitesnake due to overplaying like crazy on that one album that nobody remembers. Most of the more mainstream stuff of his that I've heard, combined with any pictures I've ever seen with standard six-string "typical fret arrangement" guitars, suggest that he usually plays pretty standard tonalities. Now that you mention it, though, I would believe that he did do the sort of pioneering that you're talking about. Personally, I always found Vernon Reid to play more whacky tonalities than pretty much any other player.

Chris

 

[GhettoWayz]

well, vai has always been an oddball.

whitesnake and vai was a wierd pairing.
but c'mon, there was some good songs on the album. Wings of the Storm is great. Kittens Got Claws is good. The album was called Slip Of The Tongue. I remember it. It wasn't bad.
I prefer "Eat 'Em And Smile"

Vai is just someone I used to illustrate the point that there has been innovation in the realm of rock guitar.

I think taste is everything. But i think seperating technique from the tastefulness conveyed to the listener is
just an innaccurate way to view what guitar playing is. It's takes a technique to strike a string with a pick while fretting a note. So to say technique is nothing is a little misguided to say the least. It's not a slogan to sell guitar lessons by.

but anyways, I think technique, taste innnovation and raw, gut-level stuff really do eqaul great guitar playing.

Otherwise, you're listening to somebody learn how to plaaay.

 

[royharper3220]

"Steve also has a guitar with 16 frets to the octave,"

meaning 16 half steps in an octave as opposed to the traditional western 12. the standard in India is 22 half steps and some believe it should be infinite. of course that would present problems, like i would have to upgrade my Quiktime tuner lol.

 

[shawn gibson]

"Steve also has a guitar with 16 frets to the octave,"

meaning 16 half steps in an octave as opposed to the traditional western 12. the standard in India is 22 half steps and some believe it should be infinite. of course that would present problems, like i would have to upgrade my Quiktime tuner lol.

What does this mean exactly? In a diatonic mode, you'd start on a root, and play some combination of tones and semi-tones, and would have 7 notes to form the scale, and end on the octave of the root...how would you describe the same thing with the kind of scale you're talking about? I'm very intrigued.

I used one of Satriani's "Guitar Player Magazine" scales from a lesson/interview in the early 90s, very flat-2 sounding, with a flat-5 and one of the jumps was a tone-and-a-half (if I recall correctly, which of course is open to debate LOL), and it was SO different sounding, and so...fresh.

I'd love to hear a lot more about different possibilities than the standard "i own a plane/not the Doors again/ frig a man/this lid's a pain/mix it with the lid on man/a hole he's in (the head)/low creed and (you're dead)".

Shawn