Tascam MS-16/ATR 60-16 tape lifters.

  • Thread starter Thread starter ron-e-g
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ron-e-g

ron-e-g

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Hello, I've been searching this forum to find about rotating worn tape lifters on these machines. No luck. I came across threads mentioning it on these models, but nothing describing it. As I study the parts exploded view it seems the lifters are attached to the base solidly.

Has anyone here done this? If so could you explain how you did it to me? I would greatly appreciate it.

The ATR 60-16 I just purchased has some miles on her.:eek: the lifters are pretty well worn (flat spotted) even the guides. I've already replaced some transport buttons and bulbs with some new old stock I had. I've De-magged and cleaned the tape path. The original pinch roller had dents in it and had glossed over. So I replaced it with a older one from the MS-16
(no more vibration now).

Thanks for any response.:thumbs up:
 
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usually their are pressure fitted. the challenge is to clamp and rotate them without scratching them and without bending them. Which is tough, i've done it in the TSR-8 with success, but is a risky operation. You need a strong vise big enough to cover the length of the lifter that should be wrapped in rubber or something else as you clamp it so it doesn't get scratched by the vise when you clamp it. Then rotate from the base by hand
 
Thanks fgonza. At least, now I'll know what I'm up against when I pull it apart.
 
I rotated mine with just a couple of pairs of vice-grips and used a piece of rubber on the shaft to prevent any scaring. And the other vice grip to hold the squarish plate its attached to. I gripped the post close to the base plate and just turned it slowly and firmly. Gripping the shaft up high just introduces unnecessary torque.

But you do have to remove the lifters from the deck in order to do this and that means removing the head block to get to them and put everything back together just as you found it.

Pretty straight forward procedure even for a novice like me. :D

Cheers! :)
 
Got the lifters turned. Found, that by using a open-end wrench on the lifter base (the size of the rectangle) and then needle-nose vice grips (my description), for the lifters, I could spin them without removing them from the deck. I also, took the opportunity to spin the tape guides as well (also flat spotted).

After re-installing the head-block I loaded tape. Checked the tape travel. I looks OK....but after doing some rewinds and FF's I see this!

SANY0039.webpSANY0039.webpSANY0042.webpSANY0045.webp

Any Ideas? This is not good I'm thinking!
 
When you "spun the tape guides", you changed their height adjustment. If you remember which way you turned them, and by how much, try turning them back to where they were as those are fairly critical to how the tape travels and spools. If you don't remember, refer back to the service manual for adjusting them to the correct positions.

Cheers! :)
 
Yea I thought so too. so I expected to see some tape curling or improper head height afterwards. But after running tape (Play) and observing the tape travel it seemed OK.

What should I be looking for here?

Maybe also changed lifter azimuth?

side-note; After removing the three screws and head-block I was surprised how much play there is in reinstalling it how do I get it back right? seems it would be critical.

Ron
 
Lifter azimuth is a pretty non-critical issue unless its way out, which would push the tape off the top or bottom of the guide posts in a wind mode. But you said you saw no curling, so that's not it.

The pics you posted above: were those of the tape pack after a full speed wind or a spooling mode wind?

Cheers! :)
 
ron-e-g said:
side-note; After removing the three screws and head-block I was surprised how much play there is in reinstalling it how do I get it back right? seems it would be critical.

Ron
Click to expand...
I remember on mine there being some play in the positioning of the head block assembly also. My machine was fairly grimy at the time so it was easy enough to line it back up to the dirt marks on the metal base plate that the block screws onto. Not very scientific but seemed to do the trick!

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
The pics you posted above: were those of the tape pack after a full speed wind or a spooling mode wind?

Cheers! :)
Click to expand...

I tried both. Didn't make much (if any) difference. But I think the pictures were after FF & RW no spooling.
 
The Ghost of FM said:
I remember on mine there being some play in the positioning of the head block assembly also. My machine was fairly grimy at the time so it was easy enough to line it back up to the dirt marks on the metal base plate that the block screws onto. Not very scientific but seemed to do the trick!

Cheers! :)
Click to expand...

Well mine I cleaned first!:facepalm: I gotta think, since there is no locating pins it must not be that crucial...but then again it is independent of the pinch/tension, and capstan, plus the counter roller. Not to mention.. tape lifters.
 
ron-e-g said:
Well mine I cleaned first!:facepalm: I gotta think, since there is no locating pins it must not be that crucial...but then again it is independent of the pinch/tension, and capstan, plus the counter roller. Not to mention.. tape lifters.
Click to expand...

You could always try visually lining it up by getting some concentrated light on the holes from above and centering the position of the head block based on that, then keeping it in place by hand as you slowly reinstall the screws.

Are you sure there is no oxidization discoloration on the base plate to use as a guide? Even something faint?

Cheers! :)
 
The Ghost of FM said:
Are you sure there is no oxidization discoloration on the base plate to use as a guide? Even something faint?

Cheers! :)
Click to expand...

There is some faint oxidation around the three hex screws, I tried to use this as a guide. Since I have to remove it again, (to rotate the the guides 1&3 back) I'll take a closer look. Ghost you asked, if I knew how much I had rotated these guides. I do, I can tell by the flat spotting. I should be able to rotate them back to their original position. I did an initial test of the channel inputs yesterday. I found no input on channels 1,2, 6,7, and 8. after removing working cards, and installing them to non working positions, and de-oxing all cards I finally got all channels inputing the signal...hurray. one more hurdle overcome!

I will return the guides to the original position and report back later.

Ron
 
I removed the head-block and loosened the tape guide screws and spun the guides to the original position. I then re-tightened the screws (at the bottom side) of the head block. put it back together and threaded tape. On Rew things looked OK except I notice the tape raising up some. On FF the tape jumps the guide 3 on the upper flange. Upon Play it drops back down and seems fine. So, I tried to raise the guide (3) to allow for this. When I loosened the hex screw on the guides, both 1&3, they spin loose at the base. I thought they were somehow independent from bottom flange to the top. Could it be that the adj. screw is too tight? Or how do these things work? there is no exploded view of these assembly's but they are called Assembly's in the manual parts diagram. Which would lead me to think there are several parts to it.
 
There's no exploded view of them because they are sold as a single part when you order new ones from TEAC.

Not sure of any specific torque spec for how tight they need be. I would assume they do need to be pretty tight though or else they'd flex too much under usage. So basically tightening them until a standard 4" hex wrench doesn't want to reasonably turn any more is my best suggestion.

As for the actual height adjustments, I could only suggest to follow the guidelines in the service manual.

Hope it works out for and sorry for not having anything further to offer you, advice wise. This thread started off about just rotating the lifter arms and then you went ahead on your own to rotate the guide posts. When I had mine, I bought new ones and installed the ones for the ATR60-16 as those had deeper channels at the top and bottom then the original guide posts. And that was several years ago when I did that so I don't have a clear memory of how I got the height right but do remember following the service manual pretty strictly to do all that as this was before I was on the Internet.

Cheers! :)
 
Thanks Ghost, once again. I tightened them both and then loosened the lock screw they are free again. As for the manual, as I read it the only adjustments to the guides are done in play mode. And FF & REW adj. are covered under " Tape path fine adjustment" that will require a more extensive check. Did you use the Gauge- block #5772913700 for setting the Tension roller Azimuth? Do the shims referred to in the manual, already exist, and only need adj. as the need be?

I will read through the manual again.

Hopefully, someone who has done this recently will chime in.
 
what tape are you using ? try a different roll to see if the behavior changes, i remember using one roll of 499 that was kind of shedding and deformed that amplified the issue
 
I was using GP9 in the video. I replaced it with some Quantegey 456. After that I ran in REPRO, that seemed OK. REW (in Spool mode), the tape raises up in it's path.

But it seems more stable at rocking REW-FF-REW-FF ect. It doesn't seem to do all the oscillation, seen in the video. But...it Rewinds for only a period of time, then stops. When I engage REW again it will continue to REW for a time then stop. ?
 
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