Tascam mixing desks

[Uli_the_Grasso]

After twenty-five years of building mixers they still produce such a crap. A big mixing desk which cannot be opened for service? I guess that is a perfect fit for Reel_to_Reel and other madmen.

 

[boingoman]

After twenty-five years of building mixers they still produce such a crap. A big mixing desk which cannot be opened for service? I guess that is a perfect fit for Reel_to_Reel and other madmen.

You could always not work on them, saving yourself some aggravation......

 

[MadAudio]

I'll bet your mom says your dad was a cunning linguist.

Normally I love that phrase. But the mere thought, even the slightest suggestion, of my parents having sex is enough to make me nauseous. And they're not even ugly!

 

[Uli_the_Grasso]

Boingoman, I have not any personal problem. All I wanted to tell you folks is that a Tascam mixing desk, while looking proper and powerful, does not necessarily behave so. I have already told you about failing transistors, relays and DC motors in Teac/Tascam tape machines. I could tell you even more horror stories, also about Behringer, Fostex, Studer, Fender, .... At least half of what I repair failed due to production or design fault. Anyone who is in for analogue equipment can use the information provided by me to his advantage.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Boingoman, I have not any personal problem. All I wanted to tell you folks is that a Tascam mixing desk, while looking proper and powerful, does not necessarily behave so. I have already told you about failing transistors, relays and DC motors in Teac/Tascam tape machines. I could tell you even more horror stories, also about Behringer, Fostex, Studer, Fender, .... At least half of what I repair failed due to production or design fault. Anyone who is in for analogue equipment can use the information provided by me to his advantage.

All excellent points, Uli.

By the way, Uli, we have a section on here called the Drangon's Cave where off topic discussion is encouraged and talk of equipment and the recording process is discouraged. I think we would truly enjoy your participation there and would yourself.

Cheers!

 

[cjacek]

A big mixing desk which cannot be opened for service?

Yeah, I once tried to properly clean a TASCAM m-308 mixer and, having no previous experience with this sort of thing, I thought that I'd just pop the top or back cover and have easy access for cleaning, lubing etc ... What I found, however, was a nightmare trying to get in there. Yeah, I certainly wish these were easier to open up. HOWEVER, I feel the sonic quality of these "vintage" mixers is really spectacular, I'd say better than the crap they make today. Also, I think they're pretty sexy too

BTW, politics and personal issues aside (non gear related), I think ULI is an asset to this group.

Daniel

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Yeah, I once tried to properly clean a TASCAM m-308 mixer and, having no previous experience with this sort of thing, I thought that I'd just pop the top or back cover and have easy access for cleaning, lubing etc ... What I found, however, was a nightmare trying to get in there. Yeah, I certainly wish these were easier to open up. HOWEVER, I feel the sonic quality of these "vintage" mixers is really spectacular, I'd say better than the crap they make today. Also, I think they're pretty sexy too

BTW, politics and personal issues aside (non gear related), I think ULI is an asset to this group.

Daniel

Access to inside of any 300 series mixer is achieved by opening the bottom service access panels. Not through the top or back.

Cheers!

 

[A Reel Person]

And nothing nearly approaching rocket science!!

..................

 

[cjacek]

Ok, ok ... Calm down guys

 

[kiira]

BTW, politics and personal issues aside (non gear related), I think ULI is an asset to this group.

Daniel

Oh me too. Though I did cancel my dinner date with Dieter to see the directors cut (7 hrs long!) of Das Boot.

ack chally - I think the channel strips on my, yes very sexy, M512 are all removeable in groups of four from the top of the mixer. Finally will be able to wire it up today hope hope hope.

anybody ever have to or try replacing caps and stuff on the channel strips? It's 20 years old.

tra!

 

[sixtiesman]

Tascam M-312B any comments?

The Ghost:- I found one!!

This could be THE moment to ask about this desk!
I have seen one for sale so...would it "match" my TSR-8?

I have a decent mic pre already but I was wondering about general noise levels compared with modern gear like the Mackies? (VLZ1604PRO)

Finally if anyone can tell me if this desk might be an improvement on my Fostex 812 I would be very grateful!!

thanks

sixtiesman

 

[The Ghost of FM]

sixtiesman,

Check my answer in the TASCAM forum where you asked this question.

Cheers!

 

[cjacek]

The Ghost:- I found one!!

This could be THE moment to ask about this desk!
I have seen one for sale so...would it "match" my TSR-8?

I have a decent mic pre already but I was wondering about general noise levels compared with modern gear like the Mackies? (VLZ1604PRO)

Finally if anyone can tell me if this desk might be an improvement on my Fostex 812 I would be very grateful!!

thanks

sixtiesman

See, a lot of folks believe that "modern gear" = quality and that "vintage/old gear" = Fred Flinstone. That ain't always so my friend. I've had an m-308B (same as yours just with less stuff to play with) and also had experience with the Mackie you talk about. The 308B and its preamps are every bit as quiet as the Mackie but sound, IMHO, much nicer. The EQ is better and so are the options to hook up things etc and it has more features ... There's also the VU meters that can't be beat. Yes, the 312B will fit any recorder including the TSR 8. Btw, all this good stuff I say about the 312B provided it's in good used working condition.

Daniel

 

[boingoman]

See, a lot of folks believe that "modern gear" = quality and that "vintage/old gear" = Fred Flinstone. That ain't always so my friend. I've had an m-308B (same as yours just with less stuff to play with) and also had experience with the Mackie you talk about. The 308B and its preamps are every bit as quiet as the Mackie but sound, IMHO, much nicer. The EQ is better and so are the options to hook up things etc and it has more features ... There's also the VU meters that can't be beat. Yes, the 312B will fit any recorder including the TSR 8. Btw, all this good stuff I say about the 312B provided it's in good used working condition.

Daniel

I agree, especially with regards to solid-state gear from the seventies and eighties. Solid-state engineering was a well-established discipline by that time, the components and construction techniques well understood and developed over time. The emergence of surface-mount technology did wonders in terms of cutting costs and size, but it sacrificed some of the sound IMO. Many engineers will agree that suface mount components don't measure up to their through the board cousins for audio applications. A Mackie desk might have great noise specs, features, a small footprint, and their pres sound better with every new generation, but they still have some way to go before they catch up in terms of how they actually sound compared to some desks people consider outdated.

 

[Uli_the_Grasso]

Folks, you are talking nonsense. Tascam used operational amplifier chips already in the seventies. The problem is that at this time no dedicated audio op-amp type was available. 709? 741? NE5532 came in 1978 and initially was very expensive. Therefore, many vintage Tascam mixers are noisy RF generators. A Tascam is not a Neve. Do not pinken the truth!

 

[cjacek]

Folks, you are talking nonsense. Tascam used operational amplifier chips already in the seventies. The problem is that at this time no dedicated audio op-amp type was available. 709? 741? NE5532 came in 1978 and initially was very expensive. Therefore, many vintage Tascam mixers are noisy RF generators. A Tascam is not a Neve. Do not pinken the truth!

I'm just speaking of my personal experience, of having actually heard and used an m-308B mixer. I have found it very quiet.

Daniel

 

[Uli_the_Grasso]

The M-3500 uses 22 KOhms coal film resistors for the series resistors of the busses. (http://www.cellardweller.com/mods.html)

"Replacing all the crappy TL072's with NE5532's... I did that to my old M3700 myself..." (http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/11633/0)

Solid-state engineering was a well-established discipline by that time, the components and construction techniques well understood and developed over time.

Bullshit! Tascam did not copy Neve or Telefunken circuits but used op-amp chips which were brand new technology at that time. Old school circuits consist of transformers, discrete transistors, caps and resistors, but Tascam cut them and the costs.

The emergence of surface-mount technology did wonders in terms of cutting costs and size, but it sacrificed some of the sound IMO. Many engineers will agree that suface mount components don't measure up to their through the board cousins for audio applications.

SMD has few advantages for audio. Investment costs are high. Designers make mistakes. SMD is fine when done right and with proper production quality control.

Face it: Old Tascam mixers are not any better than old mixers of other brands. A brand that comes into my mind is Ross. Tascams were loaden with features - parametric EQs, lots of busses and long faders - but of low quality.

 

[cjacek]

Face it: Old Tascam mixers are not any better than old mixers of other brands. A brand that comes into my mind is Ross. Tascams were loaden with features - parametric EQs, lots of busses and long faders - but of low quality.

Ok, Uli, so what "vintage" mixers you would call "quality built" ? What about reel to reel machines ? I would like your opinion on these.

Thanks,

Daniel

 

[Uli_the_Grasso]

I serviced an old LEM solid-state power mixer. No op-amps. No protection circuitry and relays in the power amplifier. Electronics could be accessed in running state in 10 seconds. Not perfect but simple.

The Teac 80-8 which I serviced used RC4558 op-amps which are not bad, much better than TL072/82. The op-amp for the head amplifier sits in a socket. The head is connected by a transformer.

The Tascam 38 looks the same except for the missing socket.

Read older posts by me where I cover the mistakes of old Teac/Tascam tape recorders!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I have never heard of the mixer brand called LEM?

Is this a European brand?

As well, a powered mixer generally falls into the realm of PA usage, not home recording usage. And, home recording is what most of us here are about.

I never claimed TASCAM mixers to be the equal of Neve or SSL and most home recordists would never consider such brands either for home recording.

While it may be 100% true that they cut a corner or two in the design choices of a few interior components, their competition cut even more and most listeners can hear the difference.

Many home users never consider how easy or hard it will be to repair a defective unit. That's not their concern when choosing a mixer. They just want to know that it will fit their mixing needs and offer decent sound quality and in many cases, TASCAM mixers exactly fill those requirements.

Cheers!