Tascam m520 routing help needed!

C

cracklin'

New member
I just upgraded from a Tascam 388 (after almost a decade of fun) to an MS-16 and m520 mixer. I've read through everything on these pages about the m520 (and have poured over the manual) but am still a little confused about some routing options on the desk. Mostly, I'm still scratching my head in regards to the subgroups and pgm. I was wondering if there was an easy way to configure the board so that I can quickly overdub using the same mic settings on different tracks. I was going to use a patchbay for this but something tells me this board might let me do it. I guess I'm looking for the ease of input switching and internal bouncing that the 388 provides. I also don't really understand how the assign sections work. ahhh...

Two things I need to figure out:

If I have a Mic-->External Mic Pre-->Track 1 (mic in or line in?) recording a vocal take. Right after that take I would like to record using the same mic/mic pre and just assign it over to track 2 and so on. Is this possible?

I would like to bounce tracks 1-4 down to a stereo mix onto tracks 5 & 6. Can I do this without a patchbay?

Thanks!
 
Use the busses. Instead of going direct out plug the buss outs into your deck.

Say you are using channel one for your mic input. right above the channel on and solo buttons, you have 8 assign switches. Assign it wherever you want. You are feeding the tape machine not from the direct outs but the buss outs.

You can do all of the above without a patch bay, but a patchbay sure makes things easier.

There are some great videos that Sweetbeats did on the routing capabilities of this mixer. Study the M520 story thread.
 
Your first scenario (vocal take to track 1, then to track 2 from the same input) that is exactly what PGM groups are for. Think of the PGM assign buttons as a continuously variable patchbay where you have to unplug and plug in nothing, just push the button and this is not specific to the M-520...it is how subgroups are typically used with any mixer in a recording setting. Notice on the back of the M-520 you have PGM output jacks 1-8, and two sets of them, right (for a total of 16 output jacks)? Connect one set of 1-8 jacks to your MS16 inputs 1-8, and the second set of 8 outputs to MS16 inputs 9-16. Any M-520 input can be routed to any MS16 input (even all of them at once or any combination) using the assign buttons. With your specific scenario for the first vocal take you would set the PAN knob full counter clockwise L and latch the #1 assign button. That sends your signal to the PGM 1 fader. Use the fader to set the proper level to track 1 of the MS16 (it is also going to track 9 input but won't record there unless you record enable track 9). Record your take. Now for your next track, set the PAN knob all the way clockwise R, unlatch the #1 assign button and latch #2. Now your vocal input is routed to the PGM 2 fader and being output to input #2 of the MS16 (and also input #10, but won't record there unless you record enable blahblahblah...). Does that help?

For your second scenario the answer is "yes". The 16 outputs of the MS16 should be connected to the TAPE inputs of mixer channels 1-16. MS16 outputs 1-4 would then be accessible on mixer channels 1-4 when selecting the "TAPE" input (this is similar to the RMX input you're used to with the 388). Now assign channels 1-4 to BOTH groups 5&6, and pan each channel to taste for the desired placement in the stereo field. That mix is on PGM faders 5&6 and being output to MS16 inputs 5&6. Record away.

On the 388 you had 8 PGM groups just like the M-520, but now on the M-520 you have more control over the PGM levels because you have a fader for each group (8 of them) vs one fader for the ODD groups (1, 3, 5, and 7) and one fader for the EVEN groups (2, 4, 6 and 8)

Hope that helps. No patchbay needed. The M-520/MS16 package is more flexible and powerful than the 388...it's just you have cables running in between the two sections, right? ;)
 
Thanks Sweetbeats! you are my hero. that is exactly what I was hoping would be possible. gonna try it out tomorrow! also, was trying to find the videos you put up on the m520 Story thread but couldn't find them. do you have a link?
 
Was my answer chop liver? Or just not detailed enough.
:D
There are links in that thread, unless they're not good anymore.
 
Yup, they be it! I downloaded them to a folder called studio stuff. Anything of a tech nature on every piece of gear I own is in there. I have it on a laptop so I never have to stop anything in my music computer.
Even though I use my 520 on a daily basis, from time to time I watch them to get deeper insight.
Thank you for having them available!

I got mine set up with patchbays. I'll have tape ins and direct outs normalled, and another patchbay set up for the buss routing. Although there is some patching involved, I can use both direct outs and buss to tape without ever going behind the desk.

Btw, your answer was much more in depth than mine. Must be a teacher personality in you.
:D
 
This is great stuff. Just downloaded the videos. thanks guys. I'm kind of slow when it comes to these things.

RFR, could you explain why you would want to be able to have access to both direct outs and buss to tape? My m520 came with a few patchbays, so I was curious how to best incorporate them if even necessary. I only have three outboard mic pres, so I was just going to plug them into tracks 1-3 and use the pgm groups as you described.

Thanks again, you guys really helped me get moving on this board.
 
There are a couple of reasons.
1) I like using direct out to tape for a cleaner signal path.
2) Sometimes I want to combine a few mics and channels to one or two tracks of tape like you do.
3) I'm running a hybrid set up with protools and tape. Sometimes I'm in the box combining things and then put them onto tape.
4) Sometimes I'm using the console to mix rather than itb.
5) The m520 has 8 channels of balanced outs which I can feed to my focusrite 8 channel interface.
6) Sometimes I'm using the direct outs to go straight into my Allen and Heath ice16 interface. ( 16 channels of ad/da with no preamps)

There are more, but there's a few.

I want to have options, and even though this is a 'small' format console. There is so much you can do with it once you get used to it and dive in
 
Wow. That's a lot of options. I will want to tackle that later on...
So, I've been messing around all morning and can now record overdubs the way I want thanks to you guys!
I have a question that is super basic but I'm still not understanding it...

I have the following set up =
PGM Outs -->MS-16 Ins
MS-16 Outs -->m520 Tape In (tracks 1-16)

I can a mix in the Monitor Section no problem. I can record no problem. But what is the best (and easiest) way to go into mixing mode so I can use the input channel faders (with eq/panning) to create a master stereo mix?
 
Like when you are mixing down to a stereo master?

That would be setting the source switch on the channel strips to TAPE, and assigning those strips to any pair of PGM groups as a stereo master...let's say PGM 1&2. Then you set monitor mixer channels 1&2 or 9&10 to BUSS, pan one hard L and the other hard R and then latch the MON switch in the MONITOR SELECT switchrack to monitor the monitor mixer. This is one of the aspects for which the M-500 series is criticized...it's a little cumbersome because there is no dedicated L-R buss on the M-500 mixers. Remember on your 388 you could route an input to any of the PGM groups 1-8 OR to the stereo master L-R buss. Not so on the M-500s. Once you get it worked out its not a big deal and the M-500 mixers (in my opinion) make up for this deficit in a number of other ways, but that's how you do it. Whatever is selected in the MONITOR SELECT switchrack is what is then present at the STEREO A and STEREO B master faders and their corresponding output jacks. That's your stereo master.

I hope I'm understanding your question and I hope this helps.
 
cracklin' said:
But what is the best (and easiest) way to go into mixing mode so I can use the input channel faders (with eq/panning) to create a master stereo mix?
Click to expand...
Here's the way i do it.
All your input channels, flip to tape. I assign them to buss 7&8. Simply because it's at the far right side of the console where a dedicated stereo master would be.
Channels 17 to 20 would be for effects returns and are also assigned to buss 7&8.

Yes, people ctitisize the m520 for not having a dedicated stereo master, but big deal. With the busses you have 4 stereo masters that you could feed 4 different mixdown devices.
The tape machine only has 16 tracks. Once the tracks are recorded, you dont need the busses really.

Now here it gets interesting.
Above the buss faders, you have the stereo master A and stereo master B faders.

A is designed for control room monitoring, and B is designed for headphone mixes.

You 'could' use master B to send to your mixdown deck /device
Using this method you could still use your busses. Lets say you assign all drums to buss 1&2, bknd vocs to 3&4, etc.
If anything at mixdown was too quiet or too loud you could bring them up or down in the final mix as a group.

Lots of options.
:D
 
I agree...and the fact that the M-520 has 20 channels makes it nice because you have some additional mixdown flexibility there...plus some great routing and access features with the 2TR A/B busses and such.
 
So in overview, the M520 is a very versatile mixer more than capable of all your mixing needs for 16 track recording. So versatile that it can be a bit overwhelming at first.

So just hook up the basics, get a feel, then as you understand it more the options will become apparent.

And watch the vids sweetbeats posted.
They are well done and narrated in that ever so smooth, calm sweetbeats voice.
:D
I mean, come on! How could you ever get frustrated when such a calm voice is explaining it to you?
:D

Have fun with it and welcome to the club.
:thumbs up:
 
you guys are awesome. I just spent the evening messing with this thing. once set up with the basics you can really start to get some ideas. thanks for all the amazing help! I'm gonna have some fun with this mixer...
 
Good deal!

I always thought the 8-channel BALANCE AMP section and the patchable meter bridge were such cool ideas. And in all honesty the instrument preamps on channels 1&2 are some of the best I've used for passive bass guitar, at least the bass I use. It really has a great feature set and I think they look great too.

Enjoy, and hit us with questions as they come up.
 
Yes inputs one and two are quite good for guitar and bass. Many times despite having the ability to mic everything, I've favored the instrument ins on the console. It can sound like an amp. Not a tube amp but for warm clean tones it's nice.
I've fooled a lot of people, who were suprised that it was the console.

But if you think about it, it IS, in a control room, an amp.

Plug into a pedal (or put it into the insert)> go into the channel (with 3 semi parametric eq controls) > into monitor power amp> into the mains.
Crank it up, dial in the tone you want, and it behaves like any 'real' amp would.
Feedback and everything.
:D
 
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cool. going to mess around with the instrument inputs on 1 & 2 for sure. I love direct bass.
I have a super simple question: When I set up the board to do a stereo master like you described (input set to TAPE, buss assigned to 7 & 8, MON 7 & 8 set to buss and hard panned) I can only get sound out of the individual channels if the Channel ON Switch is activated. I can pan and EQ and all that, but the SOLO button is disabled. I guess I'm wondering if the Channel ON Switch is supposed to be activated when mixing?

Thanks for all the help. Last night I had dreams of how to route this board different ways for different situations. crazy what spending all day on one thing will do to your mind!
 
The channel ON switch is the same function as a mute control. Normally you latch a mute control to kill channel. On the M-500 mixers the channel is dead until you latch the ON control turning it on.
 
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