Tascam M-208

PrinceFlabby

PrinceFlabby

New member
@sweetbeats

Mainly directed at you as I’ve seen you speak about them at length (13 years ago though I might add😅) but others are welcome to reply. I’ve just bought one of these! Got some questions about routing & monitoring and would love to pick your brain. Cheers :)
 
So first question-

channel routing and panning.

How is the panning working on the individual channels? Do they go straight to the L/R stereo faders? Or must they be assigned to the 1-2, 3-4 PGM faders?

I.e. say I want to pan channel 01 slightly right and channel 02 slightly left, will that show up on the stereo out- or is it the case of assigning them both to PGM 1-2 and then the panning will show up between those two faders? In which case would I have to pan both PGM 1-2 hard left and right when sent to the stereo out? (IDK if I’ve explained that correctly). Also does each channel have to be assigned to a PGM? Or can you leave them unassigned to go straight to the stereo out?

Q2 -

Monitoring.

Find the monitoring section very confusing, currently getting no signal in the headphones out (yes wearing stereo headphones) have tried to solo and have the monitor knob turned all the way up- could just be broken but the guy I bought it off said it was working last he used it? So how does that work, also is the stereo outs monitoring the PGM faders or the actual L/R master fader?

last thing- more of a maintenance issue, one of the faders is really wobbly (took the cap off it’s definitely inside the mixer) feels almost like a rollercoaster hump 🎢 like up/down and wobbly- any idea what could cause that/a fix? Very hesitant to open the back as it’s a vintage unit and I know very little about electronics.

Cheers for the fast reply mate!:)
 
First off, I’ll answer with another question…you have the manual, yes? If you don’t, get one. Most of your questions are answered in the manual.

channel routing and panning.

How is the panning working on the individual channels? Do they go straight to the L/R stereo faders?
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No. On the M-200 series there is no direct path from an input channel to the main L-R buss. You assign inputs to PGM groups, and then the post fader PGM group signals go to two places: the respective PGM group output jacks, and the PAN control for each PGM group. The PAN controls feed the L-R main buss. There are two other sources for the L-R main buss: EFFECT RTNs 1 & 2, and the L-R SUB IN jacks.

…Or must they be assigned to the 1-2, 3-4 PGM faders?
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Yes. Input channel signals are assigned to the PGM groups and from there the post fader PGM group signals are bussed to the L-R main buss via the PAN controls on each PGM group channel.

…I.e. say I want to pan channel 01 slightly right and channel 02 slightly left, will that show up on the stereo out- or is it the case of assigning them both to PGM 1-2 and then the panning will show up between those two faders?
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As above, that won’t go directly to the L-R main buss, but it will go to a stereo mix you are creating on PGM groups 1 & 2, so, correct to the second half of your statement above.

In which case would I have to pan both PGM 1-2 hard left and right when sent to the stereo out?
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If you have a stereo mix on PGM 1 & 2, then, yes, I would set PGM 1 PAN hard L and PGM 2 PAN hard R.

Also does each channel have to be assigned to a PGM? Or can you leave them unassigned to go straight to the stereo out?
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You already know the answer to this by now I believe, but, no. If an input channel is unassigned to a PGM group, it cannot be reach the L-R main buss. Signal is still present at the FLB, EFF and PFL busses though even if the channel is unassigned to any PGM group.

Find the monitoring section very confusing, currently getting no signal in the headphones out (yes wearing stereo headphones) have tried to solo and have the monitor knob turned all the way up- could just be broken but the guy I bought it off said it was working last he used it? So how does that work…
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Hard for me to know how you have things set and what you have connected to what. So let’s just check if your monitor buss is working. Connect a source to the L-R SUB IN jacks. Raise the L-R faders to the shaded area. Make sure the meter source switch is in the up or L-R position. You should see activity on the meters when you activate your source signal. Verify the SOLO LED is not lit. Plug your headphones into the headphone jack, make sure the STEREO button in the monitor select switchrack is in the down or latched position…put the headphones on your head and slowly rotate the MON control clockwise. Anything?

…also is the stereo outs monitoring the PGM faders or the actual L/R master fader?
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The STEREO OUT jacks source the L-R faders.

…last thing- more of a maintenance issue, one of the faders is really wobbly (took the cap off it’s definitely inside the mixer) feels almost like a rollercoaster hump like up/down and wobbly- any idea what could cause that/a fix? Very hesitant to open the back as it’s a vintage unit and I know very little about electronics.
Click to expand...

Kind of hard to understand what’s happening from your description, but first of all if the unit is unplugged from power for maybe 30 minutes to be safe, all the capacitors should be drained and you can remove the bottom panel. The boogey man will not jump out. Look and see if the fader body looks damaged. The knob shaft is fixed to a nylon carrier that carries the wipers. It could be cracked or damaged allowing it to move in ways it shouldn’t. Does the channel otherwise work? Like the fader works, it’s just physically not right?
 
Sorry been two months! Figured all the stuff above out thanks to your post! Just a small question probably improbable-

is there any way to use the FLB as a post fader send instead of pre? My preference would be for both to be post fader as currently I have a tape delay on the FLB and I’m using it for Dub and would make my life easier if it was post rather than pre. Obviously I understand that it’s probably routed differently internally and there’s nothing I can do- was just wondering if there’s any potential work arounds, cheers!
 
@sweetbeats I may have one solution?
Essentially I’m trying to create a classic dub feedback loop between the mixer and effects unit.

I’ve heard that you can use the insert on a mixer channel as a direct output if you click the TRS jack in half way, if this is possible- could I use the FLB on a channel to send signal to an effects unit and then from the effects unit into a spare channel- then use the direct output from this channel back into the effects unit. Resulting in the fader of the spare channel essentially acting as the post fader send control instead of using the FLB on the channel itself?

I’m used the EFF post fader send for a reverb which is why I need two.

Let me know if that sounds stupid! Just something I thought I might try…
 
So…are you trying to create a post fade feedback loop to the delay box? That’s what you’re describing where you’re sending the affected signal back to the delay box again. Doesn’t your delay box have a feedback control of its own for the delay effect? I’d use that instead of trying to create that function on the mixer, and using up channels in the process. And it won’t work the way you describe anyway for two reasons…the insert patch point is post eq and pre fade. So it’s the same as the FLB buss, just post eq rather than pre eq. The other reason is there are normalling contacts in the insert jacks, and as soon as you insert a 1/4” plug even to the first click, at least according to the block diagram, signal to the rest of the channel strip will be interrupted. In order to use an unbalanced TRS insert jack as pre fade direct out, you typically have to make a special adapter cable that’s a TRS plug on one end with the tip and ring strapped, and the other end a TS plug with the tip connected to the tip of the TRS plug, and the shield to shield. This way the TRS plug is inserted all the way into the insert jack, but the tip and ring being connected in the plug allows signal to continue to the rest of the channel strip in spite of the normalling contacts in the insert jack. M-200 owners pipe in here if I’m wrong about the M-200 series. I’ve never owned one, and I don’t have the owner’s manual, just the service manual. So I’m going off the block diagram and schematic, but don’t have the narrative instruction about the insert points and the normalling function that I would hope is described in the owner’s manual.

There is no simple way to convert the FLB circuit to post fade. There’s no jumper or anything like that. If you’re not using all your PGM groups, you could always assign your input or inputs you want to send to the delay box to unused PGM groups and you would have post fader send control there, just connect the spare group output or outputs to the delay box inputs, and the outputs of the delay box to spare inputs, the effect returns or sub in jacks. Just make sure if you return the delay box outputs to input channels you don’t assign those inputs to the same PGM groups you are using to feed the delay box or you’ll, again, have a feedback loop. Unless you are going for some kind of crazy over-driven echo feedback, but, again, doesn’t your delay box have some form of feedback control?

I guess a modified version of what you were suggesting with using the insert points would be to tap the signal you want to effect off the insert jack (and, again, I still think you’d need that special adapter cable I described above), connect that to the line in jack of a spare channel, and then connect the insert send of the spare channel (using an adapter cable) to the delay box input, and use the TRIM control of the spare channel as your effect send control for that channel…and make sure the PGM group assign switches are up or off.

If somebody wanted to change the FLB controls on individual channels to post fade, it can be done. It wouldn’t be too hard, but would require some cutting of traces and adding jumper wires. It would also be possible to repurpose the TAPE source switch of a channel’s FLB control to a pre/post fade function. Same thing, there would be cutting of traces and jumper wires. All of it could be reversible to put it back to stock. One could also add a switch so the TAPE source function was left intact, or add an internal jumper to make it possible to change the source of the FLB buss on each channel between pre and post-fade. This would require removing the bottom panel to access the added jumper, but it would be easier than heating up the soldering iron when you want to change the function. Or you could add a jumper to switch the function of the TAPE from the factory setup to a pre/post fade switch.
 
Thanks for the reply! Lots to un-pack there! Yes the delay has a feedback control- but it’s quite annoying to have to mute channels make sure the FLB isn’t still sending signal and manipulate the feedback control all at the same time… using the feedback on the mixer is sort of a hallmark of the genre, if you see the video below it might explain more what I’m looking for! Cheers- the PGM thing you described might work for what I’m after!

 
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Yeah I know the sound you’re after…roots dub style music is some of my favorite music…was in a reggae band for some years. In fact the handle “sweetbeats” was given to me by a bandmate because of how I played.

So, yeah basically what you are trying to do is migrate the feedback control to the mixing console control surface as a matter of convenience. I’ve just never done that…always had my delay units close at hand so I could use what’s on the box rather than adding what I consider to be unnecessary signal path routing. Of course this is all assuming the feedback control is easily accessible on the box, like a dedicated knob. If we’re talking about a multi effects processor where you’ve got to access a menu to adjust the feedback, that’s different. I can understand how that would be a pain, and if that’s the box I wanted to use AND I had the bussing available on the console then I might do what you’re trying to do and use one post-fade send to feed the delay box, and return that to a channel and re-feed on the same AUX buss for feedback control. I have a number of multi effects boxes, I don’t use any of them for dub style delay. I have four different dedicated delay boxes for that, a mix of analog and digital, all with dedicated feedback controls. You need at least two post fade sends, one for reverb and one for delay, and you have one. The problem with using unused PGM groups as post fade sends is the routing is tied to the PAN control. If you are trying to incorporate reverb pops and whacky delay while mixing down, you’re panning your channels to create your stereo mix. Let’s say you’re using PGM 1 & 2 to do that…if you want to use PGM 3 and/or 4 for delay and feedback, let’s say with guitar and you have that panned about 3:00 in the mix, or maybe you’re sweeping it back and forth on PGzm 1 & 2, but want to also send it to just PGM 3 or PGM 4 as a post fade send, that stereo placement is going to follow on PGM groups 3 & 4. So there’s no way to set or use your PAN control for stereo field placement while using PGM 3 or PGM 4 discretely. You could just send to your delay box in stereo…I don’t know what you have for a delay box so I don’t know if it’s mono or stereo input…if it is mono you could do a poor man’s summing path and use a Y cable, PGM 3 & 4 Y’ed to a single plug at the input of the delay box…And actually I’m realizing the M-200 series is even more limited than I thought…all four PGM groups automatically feed the stereo buss…no way to avoid it. So you actually can’t use the PGM groups as additional post fade sends if you are also working a stereo mix at the same time. All your delay processing will be doubled into your main mix. Sorry I didn’t see that. So what it comes down to is if you want your M-208 to do what it is you’re wanting to do, your only option is to mod your FLB buss per channel to be post fade, send the FLB out to the delay in, connect the delay out to an available input channel, adjust your feedback with the FLB control on that channel, and use the fader and PAN controls of that channel to set the level of the delay in the mix and placement in the stereo field respectively. I can’t really think of how else to do it. The primary and feedback feeds to the delay box have to come from the same buss, or the feedback functionality won’t happen. There’s no way to do that if you are using the insert points with a special adapter cable. And you can’t use the PGM groups because everything you are trying to do discretely with the delay box and then mix into your main mix after processing will be incorporated into the main mix at all points if you’re using the PGM groups in this way. The M-208, as designed from the factory, can’t do what you are wanting to do.

What delay box are you using?
 
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It’s the UA Starlight, so the feedback control is easily accessible- like I said I’m aware my current set up (like you initially described) works and is functional- it’s just more difficult than if I could just have the feedback on the one fader. You’ve basically confirmed what I initially believed, was just interesting to see if there was any work around for it! Will just take some practice making sure the FLB isn’t sending signal when channels are muted and mucking with the feedback on the pedal 😂😩
 
PrinceFlabby said:
It’s the UA Starlight, so the feedback control is easily accessible- like I said I’m aware my current set up (like you initially described) works and is functional- it’s just more difficult than if I could just have the feedback on the one fader. You’ve basically confirmed what I initially believed, was just interesting to see if there was any work around for it! Will just take some practice making sure the FLB isn’t sending signal when channels are muted and mucking with the feedback on the pedal 😂😩
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That really would be a PITA. So I understand why you are asking. I was looking at the schematics and board layouts some more…do you have soldering experience or know somebody who does? It would be really a pretty easy job to convert the function of the FLB TAPE source switch from the stock pre fade (up)/TAPE (down) to either 1. post fade (up)/TAPE (down) -OR- 2. pre fade (up)/post fade (down). Do you use the TAPE IN jacks? The inline monitoring of the TAPE IN jacks is a cool feature, but if you’re not needing to monitor the TAPE IN jacks using the FLB buss, then you’d be losing nothing by converting them to option 2. And if you never need the pre fade “monitor” send functionality of the FLB buss as it comes from the factory, you’d be losing nothing to convert to option 1. In either case you would still always be able to access the TAPE IN jacks via the TAPE source switch for the input channel up by the TRIM control, and you would still have pre fade monitoring facilities of all inputs using the SOLO buss and the headphone jack.

Which brings me to another crazy idea…do you monitor using the headphones during mixdown, or do you use the stereo out jacks and some monitor speakers? If you don’t use the headphone jack, you *could* use the headphone circuit as a quasi post-fade mono sum of select inputs via the PFL switches, and, using over-the-counter adapters, sum both sides of the headphone circuit to a mono TS jack and connect that to your starlight input…use the headphone level control to set the signal level to the starlight and be able to cut the feed just by turning the headphone knob counter-clockwise. So let’s say you have a snare drum on channel 2 and guitar on channel 6…you can have these inputs assigned to PGM 1 & 2 and be mixing away, but engage the PFL switches on those channels to feed the headphone circuit feeding the starlight input and use the SOLO level control and/or headphone level control to set the signal level to the starlight, and then use the starlight feedback control. The disadvantage here is you wouldn’t have a single control for cutting the sources to both the mix and the delay box, like when everything drops out, and then just the snare pops in and whacks out on the delay box…you could do it, you’d just have to use the PGM assign and PFL switches simultaneously. But…it would give you a quasi post fade send to the starlight, and the ability to drop it in and out per channel using the PFL switches. The feed would ultimately be pre fade because that’s what the SOLO buss is right? But at least you’d have a level control for the feed and switching (via PFL switches) to drop sources in and out of the delay loop. Not ultimately what you are ideally looking for, but gets you partway there.
 
Love the thought but I think the conversion is the best bet for me😅 will have to find someone to do it- I have soldering experience bud wouldn’t be comfortable doing it…. A
 
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