Tascam 434 4-track user question

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bardo

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My drummer and I both own a 434 4-track,The question is,is there some way to tie the two together to equal a 8-track?
I noticed the sync inputs in the back.Is that what they are for and if so is there somthing I need to purchase to "go between"?
 
434? :confused:

I've never heard of that model! :eek:

Anyway, it's not really worth doing a two machine lock up when each machine is only 4 tracks to begin with because you will need to surrender one track on each machine for a time code stripe and then you're down to only 6 tracks available to record on and while that might come in handy for doing 4 tracks onto a remaining stereo pair, you could do that same maneuver with the two machines as is, right now and not bother with all the extra synchronization gear and time to get the tracks striped.

If you really want/need more tracks, consider getting an 8 track Portastudio like the 488 or 688 with full midi lock up built into it!

Or, if you really want to improve your quality of sound, you might consider open reel units which are available up to 24 tracks and beyond! But, that's a sizable investment. ;)

Cheers! :)
 
Sorry It's the 424 model.
I found a Sync system called a MT-30 that is suppose to sync both players together but are you saying I loss a track on each player just for sync?
 
I have 2 424s set up side by side right now and the standard MO for me (as mentioned by others here before) is to fill up all 4 tracks on one machine (usually the rhythm components of the song) and then send that to a stereo sub-mix on the second machine on tracks 1 and 2. if there's something relatively easy to add in at that time (simple shaker, or easy keyboard part, etc), I will do so, giving me 5 tracks mixed down onto 2 tracks. Then I can record vocals, or lead instruments on tracks 3 and 4. Finally, if needed, for the final mixdown (which for me goes to minidisc) I can add another track while mixing down.

Of course takes some practice and confidence in your mixing, because a couple of the steps are not reversible. But it is still much better IMO then the internal bounce, which always seems to lose quality and add more noise, and doesn't allow stereo seperation of the tracks.

However, all that being said, the sync would still be nice, because you would have 6 tracks still individually adjustable. I've just never looked into it. Anyone have an idea of the cost of the sync equip, or even what equip would be used?
 
Thanks for the info.
I got an e-mail from the Tascam tech's and here is what they say,
Robert,
The 424's are not synchronizeable.
The MTS 30 was required for early MIDI systems that did not feature their own SMPTE interfacing (most modern systems already have that feature, rendering the MTS 30 obsolete)
Thanks for your inquiry,
TASCAM operational support
 
I don't know...that seems wrong. Seems several people here have implied that it IS possible, but that they don't recommend it (due to the loss of 2 tracks). Now you have got me curious about this operation, though...
 
Yea I was wondering also.I found a cheap one(MTS-30) for 25 bucks and thought I'd give it a try---But why waste money(I might anyway,just for fun)
It's just me and my drummer and I do all the guitars,vocals,bass etc...so I use alot of ping ponging to get it done.
It's hard if you want any stereo action at all,You really got to think 5 or 6 steps ahead and all the under tracks have to be just right.
I've just started to mix the first four tracks onto my 2-channel player(as you mentioned)and can at least pick up two extra tracks but the tape speed is not quite in sync.
Anyway thanks for the advice
 
bardo said:
I've just started to mix the first four tracks onto my 2-channel player(as you mentioned)and can at least pick up two extra tracks but the tape speed is not quite in sync.
Anyway thanks for the advice
I've had that prob too, and just recently started making note as to which tape was recorded on which machine, and I try not to mix it up. Pretty obvious I know, but i didn't start really paying attention to it until recently.

have fun!
 
well it got to be a pain for me to re-tune my guitar or adjust the tape speed.
Reaaly sucked if I am doing muiltple songs/changing speeds and just getting mixed up
(plus I do it late at nite when the kids are asleep)
Hows the robot band going?
 
well it got to be a pain for me to re-tune my guitar or adjust the tape speed.
No retuning is needed.

Once you do the external bounce of the first 424's four track recording over to the second 424, the pitch will the same so long as you continue your session on the second machine. What ever speed the second one recorded the music at, it will play back at that same speed and therefore, there will be no tempo or pitch difference.

You can also make use of the pitch control function, if your 424 has it, to re-tune the speed so that it stays consistent between the two Portastudios. Doing that is not a big deal. Just record a middle C note from a keyboard, record that on the first machine, take the tape out and put it in the second machine and then play the tape and the keyboard and turn the pitch control on the second 424 to match the live keyboard's tuning.

Cheers! :)
 
Well at the moment I'm using my two track(regular tape deck)to bounce down on and there is not a speed adjustment,so I think I will set up the other 424 to use for this.
What other tricks do you know about the 424?
 
Using two 424's to "create an eight track"

Hello Bardo,

I have an idea how you could use both machines, and record on each track so your song will end up with eight tracks. However the process is long, it may also require a lot of planning and you may need some extra pieces of equipment. Here is what I was thinking:

# set up a drummachine, metronome or anything that can produce clicks, these beats will be recorded as you are making your pilot-track.
You could use a separate mixer, or an Y-box to link the output of your drummachine to both recorders.

# Create a pilot-track, now this is mainly to indicate the structure of your song, the track can be played on any instrument which can lay-out the stucture, including all the breaks or little turn-arounds in your song. Now this pilot-track is only a guide eh? So later on you could erase it and replace by something else.

The pilot-track will end up on both the recoders along with the clicktrack. You do need to separate the clicktrack from the pilottrack, so that you can use the clicktrack throughout the recording-process, even after you have replaced the pilot-track.


Once you have carried out these steps you have a similar recording on both machines which are identical. Of course one machine may play a little faster that the other, but the music itself is identical. Keep the speed of both machines at the same time, as this will make it easier for yourself. Only when you come to mixing both tapes onto one master you may need to adjust one of them a little, but later more about idea.

Okay now you can start adding all the parts you feel you need for the song. At this stage you work on each machine seperatly.
Once you have all your "real" rythm parts down you can erase your clicktrack so you have freed yourself another track for extra parts.

You may feel you may want to keep one of the pilot-tracks as it outlines the song so well, but you do not need it on both machines eh? Unless, of course, you like the idea of layering tracks.

NOw the last stage is the mixdown where all the eight tracks would be put onto one master. FOr this you may need an extra mixer, as you have two 424's where both the stereo-outputs need to be connected to a mixdown deck [or minidisc, or computer or whatever..............] Much of this process and the kind of extra tools you need, will depend on your situation. NOt really sure what you mix down to.

So, as you can see, with this process there are only TWO TIMES where both the 424's are BEING PLAYED at the SAME TIME, and these moments will be the most critical ones for getting the "sync.act" together. However I feel that when you work precisely, it should be possible.

Ghost mentioned earlier that you can use the speed button to finetune the 424's to each other, but perhaps you may not need to.

Question for Ghost [If he is reading this]

Will two 424's run at the same speed, I mean, the motor and other parts, will they run identical given the fact that both machines are new and in identical condition? My guess is that there will always be little fluctuations but not sure about this.

Okay Bardo, and others of course, as you can see, it would take some time and planning to record you songs like this but it may be worth it.

Have I done this myself? No, not yet, I read your post yesterday, and after a little while I could see the process of how you to get eight tracks by combing two 424's. So far I have only used one, and I do the "Pilot-track idea" and as mentioned before, it does take a lot of time and planning but I seem to enjoy the hard way of doing things :)

Cheers.

Eddie
 
With as optimistic as that sounds,...

two analog decks will ALWAYS vary in speed slightly, so the mixdown phase of your equation may prove problematic. ;)
 
A Reel Person said:
two analog decks will ALWAYS vary in speed slightly, so the mixdown phase of your equation may prove problematic. ;)


Thanks :) ........eh......the speed knob could cure this or??? NOt really eh???

Just wondering???

Cheers,

Eddie
 
Pretty need ideals.I'll give it a try but the part I am concerned about is the mix dowm onto the the two-track(final mix).
I will have to start both recorders(manually)at the same time and hope the speed is the same.The machines I'm sure could be "tuned"to the same speed but there is the human element of starting the play-back at the same time.
 
Yep you are right, but my feeling is with a little bit of practise and care you should be able to do it and adjust any slight fluctuations with the fine-tune speedbutton.

Give it a go and let us know how you are getting on with it.

Cheers,

Eddie
 
I've been giving this whole sync thing some more thought and have come to the belief that it just flat out isn't possible. I think the sync out function is strictly for synching up your 4-tk with a drum machine or synth or the like. I don't think it is possible to sync two machines, becauase there is no way for the 4-tk machine to automatically adjust its speed, to keep it in time with another machine, which is what would have to happen.

To do so manually, as in timmerman's suggestion, I think would be nearly impossible. Just a very subtle nudge of the pitch/speed knob crates a noticable wow/flutter, so you really couldn't adjust on the fly. And since you are dealing with milliseconds before the timing gets noticably off, I don't think you could EVER get it close enough. But, I guess it's worth trying. But I would be very surprised (and impressed) if it did work out.
 
Well,I spent all night thinking about it and thought I had it(zero out both decks,click track recording on both machine's,using the auto rewind at the end of the song,then they will both be at 000.The prob is still the human element of starting both at EXALACLY the same time.)I came close but deck two almost adds a reverb effect,you can't adjust speed on the run,so I gave up.Seemed like a good ideal to try but not practical.
Thanks for all the ideals people but I'll stick to the combo 6 track special untill I can afford the bucks to go 8(maybe digital??)
 
And That Is Exactly What I Did!!

I got me the 488(8-track)but that was not enough.
Tried Kristal audio engine(digital)but somthing was missing.
Found my way to Reaper and never looked back.!

Thanks again for all the help(3 years later)



Bardo
 
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