Tascam 424mkIII Help!!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Greykitkat36
  • Start date Start date
G

Greykitkat36

New member
I just bought this 4-track brand new for $330. However, I dont really how to use a 4-track to record 5 band members at one time and except to get around 9 tracks on the tape. (casette). Im looking to record Bass, Drums, 2 Guitars, and vocals. ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
 
Yo 36 Kats:

Get the drums and chords down, then overdub bass, vocal.

If you're going to bounce tracks, remember, you will lose some control.

If you bounce drums/chords to one track, any eq or reverb you apply will go to BOTH intruments and this is not really the best.

Once you get the beat recorded with chords, the rest is easy; if you screw up a lead track, just do it over until you get it right.

Green Hornet:D ;) :D :cool:
 
But what if I wanted to record everything at the same time?
 
Well, since you have six channels to play with how about...

Channel 1: Singing (direct to track 1)
Channel 2: Lead guitar (direct to track 2)
Channel 3: Rhythm guitar (direct to track 3)
Channel 4: Bass guitar (bussed to track 4)
Channel 5: Kick drum (bussed to track 4)
Channel 6: Overhead (bussed to track 4)

And PRAY you never have to retrack bass and drums :D
 
Good try Mark, but that won't work, I'm afraid,....

because the 424mkIII's BUSS and DIRECT mode recording do NOT adequately separate the DIRECT parts from the BUSS assigned parts, so therefore, your recommendation is unfortunately not feasible on the 424mkIII. Sorry!


I think the best solution would be to score the Tascam M30, 8 input/4 buss mixer, and mix 8 raw inputs to 4 output buss signals, then LINE OUT from the M30's 4-BUSS OUTs, into the 4-INPUTS [1-4] on the 424mkIII, and RECORD IN DIRECT MODE.

This is a good solution to what you're asking to do, but it does involve buying a whole other higher functioned mixer, to use in conjunction with the 424mkIII's basic 4-DIRECT recording mode.

Thanx, bye!;)
 
well our band is thinking about recording an album withabout 9 tracks, and we think that one tape (both sides) can all be recorded on the Tascam 424 MkIII. Is this legit? Can it work? Also, can u record one full song on just track 1 with 5 insruments? iam kind of lost. I was thinking of doing this:

Track 1- Lead, Rythmn Guitar, Drums , Bass, Vocals.

Or can u do this and still get it on one track?

Track 1- Vocals
Track 2- Lead Guitar
Track 3- Rhythmn Guitar
Track 4- Bass
Track 5- Drums
Track 6- Drums (Overhead)

Much help would be greatly appreciated.
 
"and we think that one tape (both sides) can all be recorded on the Tascam 424 MkIII."

I jus wanna make sure we are on the same page. I own a 424 but its been a while since ive recored with it. Both sides of the tape, are you referring to your finished product? Or are you referring to the actual tape in the 424 itself?


"Also, can u record one full song on just track 1 with 5 insruments?"

Dont see why you couldnt homie. I mean, I guess if your band really has their music down you could. Its jus during the mix down all five of those instruments, recorded to track one for an example, will be treated as "ONE" track, but I guess if you have all your instruments tweaked there would be no reason why not. And then you will have your other tracks 2-4 to record additional tracks.

"iam kind of lost..." dont worry man, in one way or another we all are...keep askin questions, there are a lot of experienced, helping people on this board, you'll get it...pM
 
HHHmmmmmm............

"well our band is thinking about recording an album withabout 9 tracks"

Do you mean to say that you have 9 songs you want to assemble into an album???...or that each song has 9 parts?????

If its 9 PARTS and you need to record it all live then you will need an addition mixer to sub-mix the 9 parts into 4....because the 4track can only record 4 TRACKS at a time.

"and we think that one tape (both sides) can all be recorded on the Tascam 424 MkIII."

The 424 uses the entire width of the tape to record its 4 tracks.
A standard recorded album on cassette has 4 tracks of information........Side A Left and Right, going in one direction....and Side B Left and Right going in the OPOSITE direction.
A standrd cassette player plays only one half, or 2 tracks at a time and when you flip the tape over it plays the other two tracks going in the other direction so that it doesnt sound backwards.

Sooooo.....this means that if you record on all 4 TRACKS of a cassette on the 424 and play it back on a regular stereo you will only hear TRACKS 1 and 2.
If you flip the tape over in the stereo, you will hear TRACKS 3 and 4 but the will be playing BACKWARDS.

Conversely if you put a standard recorded album into the 424 and pull up all four faders you will hear BOTH Side A (from channels 1 and 2) and Side B (in 3 and 4 playing BACKWARDS) at the same time.

This is a good way to freak out your parents.....especially if you do this late at night and have your room all dark except for some black candles and have a dead chicken on a little alter with its head freshly severed while you chant along with the middle two tracks of the album and.....well anyways.....I digress.

So you can either use a mixer and sub-mix all of the parts onto 4 tracks live.
Or you can overdub bounce the tracks so they stack up to 9 or 10 tracks.



The manual has a pretty good step by step for getting up to 10 (i think) tracks onto tape by bouncing and overdubbing.

Either way..........you THEN need to mix down the 4 track recording to some sort of two track format ....whether it be to your cassette stereo, a computer, or a stand alone CD burner.

You can even mix down to a VCR.

Hope this helps and sorry if I oversimplified.

-mike
 
Greykitkat36 said:
well our band is thinking about recording an album withabout 9 tracks, and we think that one tape (both sides) can all be recorded on the Tascam 424 MkIII. Is this legit? Can it work? Also, can u record one full song on just track 1 with 5 insruments? iam kind of lost. I was thinking of doing this:

Track 1- Lead, Rythmn Guitar, Drums , Bass, Vocals.

Or can u do this and still get it on one track?

Track 1- Vocals
Track 2- Lead Guitar
Track 3- Rhythmn Guitar
Track 4- Bass
Track 5- Drums
Track 6- Drums (Overhead)

Much help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

FIRST OF ALL the 424 (MkIII) is a FOUR TRACK. That means it only has FOUR TRACKS. NOT six.

If you really want stereo drums the best thing to do would be to buss the drums, bass guitar, rhythm guitar and any backing vocals to two tracks (either 1 and 2 or 3 and 4), and then print lead vocal and lead guitar to their own, separate, tracks. This will require the use of a submixer: especially if you want more than two mics on the drum kit.

Note: Any effect you want to add to the compound tracks will have to printed to tape as once the instruments are recorded you won't be able to vary the amount of any effect according to instrument (e.g. if you want the bass and kick dry, the snare and rhythm guitar to have a little reverb, the overheads to have a bit more and the backing vocals to have more still then you'll have to add it whilst tracking, as once the instruments are together on tape they'll all get the same amount of reverb. Note: this doesn't apply to lead vox and guitar; which have their own tracks).

If I were you I'd make sure each member of the band really know his/her parts before I'd start committing their genius to tape. Also, learning about things like intonation (for the stringed instruments) and drum tuning, if you don't already know about these things and how to do them, would be a good idea. And if the drummer if a complete doofus and refuses to have any truck with such radical notions as tuning his kit: hit him.
 
Ah, you don't want stereo drums. Sorry. I was confused by the way you used drums twice. :o

If you are only going to have the drums in mono then you could print the drums, bass and rhythm guitar to track 4, leaving tracks 1 to 3 for vocals and lead guitar.

But the fourth paragraph still stands, regardless.
 
I couldnt help but notice this, thread. I have the most simple answer to the problem. For each of the four channels, there is two inputs (XLR, 1/4"). Use four XLRs and two 1/4" cables. This will diminish the quality of sound, but since you guys are recording on a 424 i cant imagine you guys being too picky. Try to mix the tracks as close together....so for track one, you would have two instruments layered, use the closest relating instruments. Two guitars on channel ONE, by means of XLR and 1/4". Bass drum and bass guitar on channel 2, the same way. Then your two leftover tracks (3,4) go to the most important tracks-overhead drums, and vocals. I hope this makes sense, because it works Ive done it. You can technically record 8 things at the same time this way without buying a mixer. Its not going to sound like a 30ips recording make no mistake! Make sure to demagnetize your heads after every time you use the machine, might be overkill but some people let it sit around.
 
30 IPS is severely over-rated. 15 is good enough for most Rock and Pop recording :D

Your method is interesting. How does it work exactly? I always assumed the 1/4" jacks on the 424 MKIII were line level only.
 
And to add, I'd personally put instruments with contrasting tonality on the same track. That way you can use the tone controls to increase the perceived loudness of one without affecting the other too much.

But, whatever works for you :)
 
hey - to answer your question "How does it work exactly?" is kind of difficult, but Ill try. Or maybe you already understand and are just asking a different question?

on tracks 1-4, there are XLR ins, and also 1/4" ins for each channel/track. The great thing is if you use the XLR AND 1/4" ins at the same time, it will still pick up both signals for that one track. Since its picking up the XLR and 1/4 signal, they each sort of lose a little bit of power. But if you do this with similar instruments (guitar on guitar) it wont matter too much if you raise the volume up a bit, and make sure the guitars are at equal volume in the first place. But maybe you already understand all of this, and were asking something else? It doesnt matter anyway, because I dont feel my first post really brought the answer home, since its kind of a tricky thing to put in to words. Not trying to patronize anybody. Tascams are too much fun
 
Well, not to pick,... but...

the Tascam 424mkIII manual warns against using the XLR and 1/4" inputs simultaneously on any one channel. That's because it sets up electrical condition for impedance/loading mismatch on the channel_input_mic_pre. It's a condition, that if you're not careful, may wind up blowing the mic_pre on that channel.

Although you can get the 1/4" and XLR inputs to conduct signal simultaneously on any single channel, there's the risk it might harm the equipment. Tascam warns against it, and I wouldn't go there.

HINT: Who reads the manual, anyway?? [Ha]

Anyway, getting back to my previous suggestion,... instead of improperly loading each channel with two inputs simultaneously, just get an outboard 8-input/4-buss mixer, such as the M30, and proceed from there.

Sorry to contradict, or if I repeat myself often!;)
 
Well Ive done that at least 20-25 times with my little band and nothing happened, so I dont know. I dont know what kind of impedance the manual is discussing with a regular dynamic mic. What I dont understand is why dont they just get the rhythm tracks down live and overdub vocals, and the two guitars? It doesnt have to be live, and If a club isists thats its live (they want to know how youl sound when you play) just lie. But if this guy is saying it might screw your machine up i guess I wouldnt do it. But maybe three years ago I did this a bunch, and nothing happened. But back then I was a naive dude and i never read the manual. So heres another option I guess, why dont you just put the two guitar amps really close and throw a mic in between. It will pick both guitars up, and then put the bass amp right next to the bass drum and put a mic in between and then you have two tracks left for vocal and overhead drums. I bought an 8-track player that records, and and fast-fowards, and its the best thing Ive bought for 3 dollars. But the 1/4" ins were kind of dead so I had to have my step dad who works at monster build me female XLR to male RCA so I could run in the back, and whenever I want to record my band I use the eight track. Sounds better than any four track machine any day due to the electronics.
 
Let me try to make my question clearer.

My band wants to create a CD (cassette for now obviously), by recording on the Tascam 424 MkIII. This includes 9 full band songs. Am I able to make 9 full band songs with a four track and 1 cassette? or will i need mulitiple cassettes? we are recording with ....

Drums
Bass
Rythmn Guitar
Lead Guitar
Vocals

we are going to bounce and try and get all 5 instruments onto every track. (9 that we plan to record) Then mix down and make it a CD by using a CD recorder when i get the money to buy one.

In conclusion, is my band able to make 9 full band songs on one cassette (c-90)?
 
You want to have ALL the instruments on EACH track!? :confused: :eek: :eek: :confused:

E.G.

Track 1: Vocals, Guitars, Bass, Drums
Track 2: Vocals, Guitars, Bass, Drums
Track 3: Vocals, Guitars, Bass, Drums
Track 4: Vocals, Guitars, Bass, Drums

Please say it ain't so :rolleyes:
 
Mark7 said:
You want to have ALL the instruments on EACH track!? :confused: :eek: :eek: :confused:

E.G.

Track 1: Vocals, Guitars, Bass, Drums
Track 2: Vocals, Guitars, Bass, Drums
Track 3: Vocals, Guitars, Bass, Drums
Track 4: Vocals, Guitars, Bass, Drums

Please say it ain't so :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I wasnt sure if the MkIII was able to do that. Now is the 4 tracks all going to be on just one side of the cassette? (A) , or will 2 be on A and 2 on B?
 
But you don't need to do that.


Why, in God's name tell me WHY would you want to do something that stupid? :eek: :confused:

And, yes, all four tracks are on one side of the cassette.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top