Tascam 424mk3 and seperate mixer?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mfdjuve
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You want your levels to be around "0" with occasional peaks in the +3 range. You want to use the dbx, but if you are cranking the record level its going to do bad things to the sound. With the dbx engaged there is no reason to crank the levels.

Try that. And how are you positioning the mics?

Are you running the two mics to separate tracks?

No eq?
 
I'll try DBX on, but it was killing the dynamics.
I read a few times to record as loud as possible with tape?? I'll try at the levels you said.

Mic pos...I've tried what i've seen people do/recommend.

EQ. the 424 is very limiting in that department...just the four knobs

I'm micing one at a time, just the 57 to the amp.

it can't be so hard can it?
 
Don't use the eq on recording. I'd limit the use of it to when you are mixing down.

I read a few times to record as loud as possible with tape?? I'll try at the levels you said.

@(^*!@$)%_!@#)@! :mad:

OH that makes me mad!

Listen, that statement can certainly apply in scenarios when using open reel tape on a machine with record and playback amps that can take the heat and high output tape and if you aren't using noise reduction and you are concerned about the noise floor because your source material has many dynamics. Did you catch all the caveats there?

There is no or should be no rule of thumb that states "record as hot as possible".

You are using a cassette-based recorder...you are using dbx. You will find the results to be better with the dbx because the tape noise floor on that format is typically too high. dbx doesn't react well to excessive levels and that's why the manual tells you to keep your program level to right around "0" and peaks no more than +3...

Mic positioning...Well, dunno what folks have told you...hopefully not the same folks that advised you keep the levels as hot as possible...

If it were me I'd get the guitar sounding the way I like coming out of the cab, point the 57 clone directly at the speaker cone at a point about halfway between the center and the edge a few inches out and run that to one channel...if wanted a more pointed sound I'd direct it more toward the center...if I wanted a more rounded tone I'd point it more toward the edge...too meaty? Back it up a few inches...not meaty enough? Move it in. No good results? Just drape it over the top of the cabinet hanging in front of the speaker. Try 'em all. AND THEN in conjunction with the 57 clone I'd take the ribbon and set that several feet out in front of the cab and run that into a separate channel. I'd mess with the height of the ribbon and the distance but that is how I'd use the mics together and then test things out by recording the mics to separate tracks and then when playing back (i.e. the selector switch at the top of the channel strips are set to TAPE) I'd vary the fader levels of the two tracks and listen to the blend and then when I found a range that's nice, THEN I'd record both mics to one track with the mix setup to sonserve tracks...or I suppose you could track them separate and then bounce, but if it was me I'd find that mix and track them together to one tape track.

In messing with the 57 clone and getting your TRIM and level to tape set right you might find you don't need both mics, and then you could try the 57 OR the ribbon mic...try the ribbon up close and the 57 distant or just the ribbon up close.

Where does the amp sound nice to YOU? Put the ribbon there and see what you get, and don't let anybody tell you you are doing it wrong if you end up putting the ribbon down the hall you know what I mean?
 
I find that a lot of the times the guitarist will set up his sound with the amp on the floor (hardwood floor for example) and they would be standing up directly above it playing and saying that sounds good.

Think about what the microphone is hearing being a few inches directly infront of the speaker... probably not the same thing as you are.

Put your amp up on a chair or something (make sure it's stable) get on your knees have the amp facing directly at you (turn it down if you have to) now adjust all your tones/eq's/reverbs etc.


Also make sure that you don't have the amp TOO loud that it exceeds the SPL level of the mic. Also (depending on your style) having your amp extremely loud might make it sound good but when you recorded it and listen back through headphones or smaller speakers and lower volume it may not sound as good. Personally I would run the guitar amp at halfway but I understand some styles really only get that sought after sound when they really push the amp.

AND another thing is how are you listening back to the mix? are you using headphones or external speakers? How do other professional recordings sound on these headphones/speakers?

Last thing I can think of is are you having DBX engaged for both recording and playback or having it disengaged for both recording and playback? It's a two way process and if you engage it for recording then disengage it for playback you will get a very tingy sound whilst if you disengage it for recording then engage it for playback you will have a very muffled sound.
 
Also make sure that you don't have the amp TOO loud that it exceeds the SPL level of the mic. Also (depending on your style) having your amp extremely loud might make it sound good but when you recorded it and listen back through headphones or smaller speakers and lower volume it may not sound as good. Personally I would run the guitar amp at halfway but I understand some styles really only get that sought after sound when they really push the amp.

Extremely wise comments...you might be surprised what happens if you reduce the level of the amp...or if it IS getting you "that sound" at "that level" then indeed you might need to back the mic off...especially the ribbon...

BTW, what are you using to power the ribbon mic?
 
I do listen to the amp with my ear to the speaker.

I power the Ribbon wih the tascam preamps, into the xlr input...is this correct? It doesn't really sound how I thought a ribbon would?

Once again I was told, record with the amp as loud as possible :(

The headphones are great, I think they're pretty spot on. The amp/speakers not so much...with all the EQ's and boosters it's not very clear what's going on. I'm trying to compare my stuff to CD's for a general sound quality guide....I also turn all EQ faders down.


I'm going to really have a listen and experiment today.
 
I'm a 4-track cassette recording enthusiast myself, and I like the sound of using my DMP3 preamp before the Tascam. I've only tried 3 options: the Tascam 424MKIII pres, the DMP3 pres, or a few times the pres on my old Tascam M216 mixer. That doesn't have phantom power, so I've only used dynamics on it. I actually really enjoy running kick and snare mics through the M216, because it sounds nicer and fatter to me than the DMP3.

At this point, I pretty much avoid the 424 pres all together. It's not that they sound terrible, but, between the DMP3 and the M216 wired up nicely to a patchbay, I have the capability to avoid the 424 pres and use what I prefer.

Sweetbeats, as ribbon mics are dynamic mics, I was under the assumption that they don't need external power. Is that not right? I've never used a ribbon before.
 
Had a better day recording. Recorded with DBX and lower levels...sound has improved btu still think it could be better, especially elec guitars.

Suprisingly easy to get a decent acoustic guitar sound with the ribbon.

I spent hours today putting my ear up to the amp, moving mics, adjusting trim etc...whilst things have improved, I don't think it can get much better, moving the mic a cm here or there aint gonna change the overall sound which I'm not liking.

thanks to sweetbeats for your help so far...

any more suggestions?
 
Had a better day recording. Recorded with DBX and lower levels...sound has improved btu still think it could be better, especially elec guitars.

Suprisingly easy to get a decent acoustic guitar sound with the ribbon.

I spent hours today putting my ear up to the amp, moving mics, adjusting trim etc...whilst things have improved, I don't think it can get much better, moving the mic a cm here or there aint gonna change the overall sound which I'm not liking.

thanks to sweetbeats for your help so far...

any more suggestions?

What type of electric tone are you recording? What style of music?
 
Do you have a reverb? If not, you need one. Without it, most things will sound dull and lifeless I think. Plus it's so much more fun to record when you have a reverb, and you know how to set it up in your efx loop on the 424, which isn't hard if you have the manual... just a little playing around with some cables.

But when you buy a reverb, make sure that it works. BC if it doesn't work, it will not only drive you a little nuts... but you will have spent money for nothing. Do that, and then see if things are getting any better / more enjoyable.

But if you don't have money to spend... don't sweat it. Just keep recording over and over, even if you're not totally satisfied... it's bound to get better... it can't get any worse right???
 
Sweetbeats, as ribbon mics are dynamic mics, I was under the assumption that they don't need external power. Is that not right? I've never used a ribbon before.

Duh...thanks for calling that out. Don't know what I was thinking...no...scratch that...I wasn't thinking. :o
 
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