Tascam 424mk3 and seperate mixer?

M

mfdjuve

New member
Hello,

I have a Tascam 424mk3 and was wondering if it makes sense or even works to buy a seperate mixer for it?

Reasons

1. to perhaps improve sound quality?
2. to have 8 tracks instead of the 4 on the porta?

I see many Tascam m-30's around for cheap, would it do what I think it could do?Or am I better off buying a 488mk2?

any help and advice much appreciated

thanks
 
Maybe I'm misunderstaning you, but just be clear, nothing will change the fact that the 424 is a 4 track recorder. An external mixer will give you more channels going into those 4 tracks.

You'd either mix the external mixer inputs to its stereo buss and then connect the stereo output to the SUB IN jacks on the 424, or connect buss or direct outs from the external mixer to the LINE inputs on the 424. The first way is the cleanest path to tape, but only two channels.
 
Stupid me, I thought the separate mixer would give me 8 tracks :(

I guess I'll have to buy an 8-track portastudio, I can;t deal with bouncing!
or maybe I'm just lazy.

the 488mk2 seems to be the way to go.

thanks anyhow
 
You're welcome.

Yeah, if you're inclined toward the cassette format and a Portastudio type device then the 488 is the way to go. Be aware that the 488 can only record 4 tracks at a time but has a total of 8 tape tracks.
 
No he won't...if he needs 8 tape tracks he'll have 8 tape tracks...no bouncing. He'll just need to realize that he'll only be able to track 4 tracks at a time.
 
sweetbeats said:
No he won't...if he needs 8 tape tracks he'll have 8 tape tracks...no bouncing. He'll just need to realize that he'll only be able to track 4 tracks at a time.
Click to expand...

That's what I meant,...but on the 488 mkII you still have to select the group buttons which is pretty much like a bounce.

Once those 4 tracks are recorded, he'll have to send them to groups 5,6,7,& 8
to record the next 4 on the same tape.

There is a way to get all 8 tracks at once, as explained on the Dragon page of H.R. but it's not pretty.
 
No. That's not a bounce. Bouncing is when existing tape tracks are combined onto a smaller number of tracks, like bouncing tracks 1, 2, 3 and 4 to tracks 7 and 8.

The page describing the 8 tracks at once does not have to do with recording, but rather it explains a way to get the 8 tracks off the 488 simultaneously for transferring to another recorder, digital or analog.
 
sweetbeats said:
No. That's not a bounce. Bouncing is when existing tape tracks are combined onto a smaller number of tracks, like bouncing tracks 1, 2, 3 and 4 to tracks 7 and 8.

The page describing the 8 tracks at once does not have to do with recording, but rather it explains a way to get the 8 tracks off the 488 simultaneously for transferring to another recorder, digital or analog.
Click to expand...

You are definitely right,...I made a mistake.
I read that page a long time ago,...and thought it was for recording.

My Bad. Sorry 'bout it.
 
Or, perhaps find 688 and be able to record on all 8 and have a 10 channel mic mixer and a10 channel line mixer as well; love mine, just a bear to operate at times-Carp
 
Yeah...I thought about the 688 but I thought the 488 might be a better fit as it is more straight-forward to operate since it doesn't have the digital patchbay for routing...plus they are more rare and tend to command a higher price, but yes, if 8-track simultaneous is what is needed then the 688 is the way to go or an external mixer and a 238.
 
Bit with a 488, it's simple right? There are eight tracks to record on, no bouncing required unless you want more than 8 tracks, I never have more than two sources recording at the same time.

so no problems?...well sort of
 
Right. 488 = 8 tracks, no bouncing unless you want to track more than 8 tracks total.

If you never record more than two sources at once, then the 488 will do everything you need (based on my understanding: you'd like to stick with cassette, you want 8 tracks, and you need to be able to record at least two things simultaneously...is that right?)...and it is relatively available and affordable and there is good user community support...and it can produce quite nice results. Really fun and efficient to use once you get the hang of it, and the nice thing about the 488 is that mixer channels 1 and 2 have insert jacks as well as phantom power.

The way the 488 works is that there are a total of 12 channels on the mixer; 8 mono channels and 2 stereo channels. Those channels can be routed or "assigned" to one, some or all of 4mixer "groups", and then in the recorder section mixer group 1 is available to tape tracks 1 OR 5, group 2 is available to tape tracks 2 OR 6 and so on to group 4 which is available to tape tracks 4 OR 8.

It'll make more sense when you can look at the manual and go through the tutorial steps with a 488 in front of you.

Suffice it to say you can easily record two sources simultaneously onto the tape tracks of your choice...or you can record ONE source to FOUR tracks at once, or even record, say, 8 sources to THREE tracks... its flexible.

Hope that helps.
 
cool thanks,

only problem is that 488's are extremely scarce here in the UK :(
Is there anything can do/buy to make my 424mk3 an 8 track? Stupid question right....

another question off topic, but noticed it today.

Why do the tape cue and effect 2 channels sound so different? I spent ages getting a good acoustic sound this morning, only to switch over to effect 2 and 'tape' channel for it to sound distorted and ice pick trebly.


From what I understand when recording you select, mic/line in and tape cue.
and the effect 2 and tape functions are the actual recording for mixing down.

so why so different
 
mfdjuve said:
cool thanks,

only problem is that 488's are extremely scarce here in the UK :(
Is there anything can do/buy to make my 424mk3 an 8 track? Stupid question right....

another question off topic, but noticed it today.

Why do the tape cue and effect 2 channels sound so different? I spent ages getting a good acoustic sound this morning, only to switch over to effect 2 and 'tape' channel for it to sound distorted and ice pick trebly.


From what I understand when recording you select, mic/line in and tape cue.
and the effect 2 and tape functions are the actual recording for mixing down.

so why so different
Click to expand...

No, nothing can change a 424 into an 8-track. Its the heads and everything that goes along with them that makes it what it is.

Do you have the manual for your 424? There's a really good step-by-step guide for going through the recording process.

The 424 mixing section has two aux sends okay? They are called EFFECT 1 and EFFECT 2. These are both post fader and their source is whatever is selected as the source at the top of their respective channel strip (i.e. MIC/LINE or TAPE). The EFFECT 2 buss has a special feature that let's you use it to hear tape track playback regardless of the channel strip source selected. That means that you can have MIC/LINE selected at the top of, say, channel 1, and if the EFFECT 2 function is switched to TAPE CUE then the EFFECT 2 knob on channel 1 of the mixer sources tape track 1. The purpose is to be able to hear tape track playback during overdubbing, and so its not as important for the sound quality to be top-notch during overdubbing...you just need to be able to hear where you are at according to the stuff you've already tracked and with which you are playing along. I'll spare you the details but there are some very good reasons for why the sound quality is not as good when using the TAPE CUE function. When it comes time for mixdown THEN you switch the EFFECT 2 function to "EFFECT 2" so you can use it as an effects buss during mixing, and you source your tape tracks at the top of channels 1~4.

Make note: because of the fact that when you have the EFFECT 2 buss switched to TAPE CUE it sources straight from the corresponding tape track, that tape track is not being heard through the channel strip and the EQ. Maybe you had certain EQ settings on the channel strip that wouldn't effect the tape track when listening to the tape track through the TAPE CUE, but then when you switch to listening to the tape track through the channel strip (i.e. the switch at the top of the strip is switched to TAPE), NOW you're going to hear the tape track through the EQ section and that would certainly make a difference...and could also cause distortion. Did you record a track with some eq applied and then were those eq settings still set when you listed to the tape track through the channel strip? That would be doubling your eq (applied first on the way to tape, and then applied again playing off the tape as you listen through the channel strip). EQ settings DO effect the trim level, so if you've got a mic trimmed up to a good level and then you boost some highs and lows or whatever, it could cause the sound to distort.

I hope that helps.
 
Does anyone use or have used a seperate preamp for their 424? I'm just curious what kind of results I could get with a better preamp.
 
The only REAL way to find out is to put a nice preamp before the 424 (or whatever cassette recorder) and see if you can tell a difference in the sound for yourself. Everyone has their own opinion...

Whenever I have put a nicer preamp in front of a 4 track cassette I can tell that it has a richer, more pleasing... professional... whatever you want to call it, sound to it. Also, you will probably buy one or two nice preamps eventually so why not if you have the money (unless you have a nice board with pres in it, which I guess would be the ideal????).

Of course, a nice preamp will cost money, so if the money isn't there it's pointless to worry about... and then just start recording on your 4 track... because that will sound fine by itself, and best of all you will be busy recording, which is the whole point of it all anyway. and writing songs or whatever, which is really the most important if you think about it... everything else can easily make the creative process a distraction...


But if you have the money, why not invest in a preamp... because you'll never need to sell it... you can take it with you when you upgrade your tape deck.

So I guess a lot of people might give me crap for putting a nice preamp in front of a 4 track cassette recorder, but if you look at the big picture.... eventually that same preamp will be in front of a wider tape...

So if you have the money to try it out... then go for it and see what your own ears tell you.... that's the best way I think... real experience.

But if not, keep writing with the 4 track and bouncing tracks... and maxing it out... and then when you have money get your preamp...

I'm just rambling cause I had my morning coffee... and I'm pretty much in the exact situation you're in. Good luck!
 
A 424 will definitely make you THINK about how you are going to approach a recording. It's not the machine that's difficult, but training yourself to get into a routine where you aren't bouncing a whole lot. More tracks make it easier, but once you've mastered the recording process on a 424, everything else is easy.;)
 
I've tried the I'll do the best with what I have RIGHT NOW, but doesn't seem to working out.

Today I had such a bad day recording I was honestly depressed, after 5 hours of trying to get a good recording. Changing mic positions, changing mics, changing amps, fiddling with different setting on the 424, it was driving me crazy! How hard can it be to get a decent, and I mean just a decent guitar sound??? I don't expect great results, but at the moment I spend so much time just trying to get a nice sound, I don't end up recording at all. When I settle for a sound out of pure frustration, it just saddens me that it doesn't represent the music that i've written and love.

The gear I'm using

Tacam 424 mk3
TDK SMX-30 tapes
two nice amps
t-bone RM700 ribbon mic
T-bone sm57 clone

I'm using an old 80's aiwa amp and technics speakers SB-F3 for my monitors(really not ideal as the amp has an equaliser strip)
Sony MDR V6 headphones

I clean the heads and rollers all the time with the proper fluids.


anyway,

I can't seem to get a decent electric guitar sound, what I hear coming out of the amp is another story when recorded. It just comes out small,dull, and lifeless. I record at high volumes and push the trim as much as can without distortion.

Big problem I have is the DBX or not? DBX seems to compress a lot and completely change the sound and dynamics, no DBX...can sound harsh and thin with a sheet of unplesant noise.


I'm on a tight budget, so was looking at some cheap preamps (joe meek v6, DMP3 etc) but I'm not sure they'll much of a difference?

Then I thought I need compression perhaps? New monitors?? new mics??
new recording device??? new HOUSE!! then my head exploded :(


sorry to rant so much, but today really got me down. It takes a lot for me to actually YES i'm going to record today...then to have all this shit in the way really sucks...I just want to be happy, and that means being creative not a recording egineer :)


thank
 
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