Tape compatability

If I knew i was going to cause so much trouble I wouldnt have asked the question or bought the damn machine !!!!!!!!
lol
:)

It's no trouble... just the way forums work.

We’ve spent a lot of time and effort on this forum over the years helping people understand the tape issue. Sometimes people disagree. Great, then let the debate begin.

But this particular debate wasn’t about one tape verses another as far as preference. People use the brand that gives them the sound they want… more power to them… there’s no wrong answer.

You can experiment through trial and error, but the advice you’ll get from the old guard regulars concerning analog is the best on the web, bar none.

Zee… you would rather experiment than take advice, so... :D
 
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Well Rick, if you're going to make an outlandish claim like you did you should be prepared to give an explanation. This forum isn't a hideout. We've worked very hard to counter myths and misconceptions about tape. If you're going to make claims that fly in the face of the experience of the entire recording industry you owe the members an explanation... some details about how and when, etc.

No, it's not a matter of "To each his own." You gave someone specific advise to avoid an entire class of tape based on you're limited experience with the product, apparently ignorant of how widely and successfully 456 has been used about everywhere but your studio. That's a disservice to members seeking sound advice.

Anyone that throws credentials around like you do is going to be challenged by me when they mislead people. If you're tired of debating/explaining then don't be so careless… and stop with the slippery arguments… you keep revising the reasons for your initial statement. I don't get tired of trying to get to the bottom of an issue.

As it stands now I think you had user error issues or are just repeating things from old usenet groups, which were full of guerrilla marketers exaggerating Quantegy QC and slitting issues because they were selling a different brand of tape. I used to see that bullshit all the time.

And again, although I've had great experience with Ampex/quantegy 456 over many years, I'm basing my advise on the experience of the recording industry. The claim is true that more music has been recorded with Ampex than any other brand… albums, movie scores, movie dialog, you name it. The score for the movie Titanic (1997) was recorded on 456 about the time you say the stuff was almost unusable. :confused:

If you have to return a tape it doesn’t matter if you have to return it to an eBay seller or RMGI. Speaking of that, I’ve said previously that I still seek out NOS BASF and EMTEC over RMGI because of RMGI QC problems, so...

Frankly, IMO if you're uncomfortable supporting your assertions with details you're probably making stuff up.

What other details do you want? Exact purchase dates and lot numbers? A tally of how many oxide flakes came off per reel? How about the total weight of same per reel? Sorry, that ain’t gonna happen.

Are you saying that my set-up procedure was sloppy and that 996 was ok with it but Ampex/Quantegy was not?

I recorded the same mix of genres of just about any other studio: jazz, rock, ethnic, classical, steel-string and classic acoustic guitar, etc. Just what does that have to do with respect to defective tape?

All machines were meticulously maintained. Cleaning, playback and record alignment were checked/adjusted before every session. Gauss levels were monitored with a magnetometer regularly. Degaussing was done as needed. Alignment was checked again for every new reel of tape. I would bounce tape: that was too wide to conform to the guides; that swam up and down as it traveled through the tape path, or that shed excessively. Any tape that that yielded inconsistent level @ 10khz was also returned. ½” and ¼” widths were the most problematic.

I never claimed that Ampex/Quantegy stuff was unusable. Only that they had QC issues that in my experience, escalated to the point where I had to return half of what I purchased. Because of that I believe it’s unwise to buy NOS Ampex/Quantegy product.

The argument that Ampex/Quantegy tape was the most used in the industry for a long period of time does not change the fact that they had some serious problems. It’s reasonable to assume that if their output had been consistently good, they would still be in business. (GM could once claim the world’s largest share of their market. The declining quality of their products is a major reason why they’ve lost that position, regardless of the current economy.)

I have attempted to maintain civility throughout this thread and have been quite forthcoming. You on the other hand, have called me a liar because my experience and opinion based on it differs from your own. That shows real class. If you want to have the last word here, be my guest. I’m done.
 
Manufacture dates

Is there anyway to tell say in the case of Ampex when it was made from the barcode or serial number ?
Cheers

Steve
 
Is there anyway to tell say in the case of Ampex when it was made from the barcode or serial number ?
Cheers
Steve

The boxes have a serial like 95069. The first two digits are the year, e.g. '1995' in this case. Quantegy ones have a longer serial like 1997171, which has the full year. I think the last three digits are the day of the year it was made.
 
Tape Date

Thanks for the info I thought as much, there is some new stuff on ebay but it's 1990 stock. maybe it should be avoided.
Thanks

Steve
 
Thanks for the info I thought as much, there is some new stuff on ebay but it's 1990 stock. maybe it should be avoided.
Thanks

Steve

Yes, avoid it at all costs. Look for 1995 through 2004 for best results. Before 1995 will give you big trouble. And only buy sealed NOS (New-old-stock).
 
What other details do you want? Exact purchase dates and lot numbers? A tally of how many oxide flakes came off per reel? How about the total weight of same per reel? Sorry, that ain’t gonna happen.

No, but knowing what dates your tape was actually manufactured rather than when it was purchased makes all the difference in the world. All the Ampex you used before you switched to 3M 996 was from the bad binder years. I don't know what manufacturer dates your tape had after you stopped using 3M 996.

Are you saying that my set-up procedure was sloppy and that 996 was ok with it but Ampex/Quantegy was not? I never claimed that Ampex/Quantegy stuff was unusable. Only that they had QC issues that in my experience, escalated to the point where I had to return half of what I purchased. Because of that I believe it’s unwise to buy NOS Ampex/Quantegy product.

I don't know anything about your machines or how you used them other than what you tell us, but I don't have to. Your bad experience with Ampex tape is unprecedented... quite unique. You should ask yourself why you had such a bad time with it when the rest of the recording world was thriving with it... don't ya think?

And again (not sure how many times I have to say this) it has nothing to do with your experience with Ampex vs. mine. For me to recommend or discourage a tape based solely on experience with my machines would be irresponsible. My advise is (always has been) based on industry-wide convention... a grasp of what's been going on outside of my studio over the last 30 years.

Yours on the other hand seems based on what was/is happening on Rick Ruskin’s Island. That sort of advice is always bad advice. The statistical big picture is what you should be looking at, and in this case it says you are either very unlucky, were being played a fool by your supplier (giving you known seconds), you were doing something wrong as a user, or your memory of events isn't so good and perhaps influenced subconsciously by things you've read on the web... or you're making stuff up to win an argument... I really don't know. It's anyone's guess.

What I do know is absolutely no one has had the experience you say you've had with Ampex/Quantegy except for sticky-shed made before 1995 and very poor QC from 2005 on. Every tape manufacturer has made bad batches at one time or another but nothing approaching your experience.

The argument that Ampex/Quantegy tape was the most used in the industry for a long period of time does not change the fact that they had some serious problems. It’s reasonable to assume that if their output had been consistently good, they would still be in business.

Ehem... Quantegy was the last reel-to-reel tape company in business until RMGI brought back the BASF/EMTEC formulations. They outlasted 3M/Scotch and EMTEC to be the last one standing, and now plans are in the works for them to start making some formulations once again, including 456. Quantegy ultimately failed in 2004 due to poor management. There was nothing wrong with the product. After the reorganization with new owners in 2005 they failed from even worse management, nonexistent public relations and bad QC.

I have attempted to maintain civility throughout this thread and have been quite forthcoming. You on the other hand, have called me a liar because my experience and opinion based on it differs from your own. That shows real class. If you want to have the last word here, be my guest. I’m done.

Oh, I don't know about that. Maybe I felt you were showing some contempt for me by what I saw as you shifting your argument. Anyway, what I said is that if you (or anyone else) were unwilling or unable to explore your very unique experience for the benefit of the forum you may be making things up as you go. But it's nothing personal because I don't know you from Adam. I'm arguing with your argument, not passing judgment on you as a person. My initial frustration had nothing to do with differing opinions, but that your argument mutated and you appeared to be dodging and revising what you meant when you said "Old tape." It seemed anything but "forthcoming."

I initially attempted to correct you on what appeared to be a misconception about how tape ages (or doesn't age). You then launched into a tirade about Ampex in general to explain yourself. Your argument keeps changing. It seems disingenuous.

I've got a few questions for you:

1) Why didn't you say to steer clear of Ampex/Quantegy because you didn't like it in the first place rather than say it was "Too old."

2) Why did you keep using Ampex/Quantegy for so long if was as bad as you claim?

3) Aren't you the least bit curious that your bad experience with Ampex/Quantegy is so unique? It should be in the Guinness book of world records. ;) If I were you I'd want to know. I (and a few others here) could help you figure it out with enough info, but you may end up kicking yourself, so you might not want to know. If you’re happy with the tape you’re using now it would be academic from your perspective I'm sure, but it could help other members.

Of course it’s not really in my best interest to even argue with you about tape. I could even agree with you so I could have all the NOS Quantegy for myself. Hmmm…
 
...only buy sealed NOS (New-old-stock).
That leaves out a lot of actually NOS tapes.
It would be actuall very cool if those cool "care-cases" were ever actually sealed.
I had 406 tapes that even had NO damn plastic bag inside - and that is UNcool :mad: (see pic, top one, those were 2005 that I've got). The tapes are great though (according to my "experiments" that is :p :D )
 

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That leaves out a lot of actually NOS tapes.
It would be actuall very cool if those cool "care-cases" were ever actually sealed.
I had 406 tapes that even had NO damn plastic bag inside - and that is UNcool :mad: (see pic, top one, those were 2005 that I've got). The tapes are great though (according to my "experiments" that is :p :D )

They're ok if bought from Quantegy or a dealer. The 7" used to be sealed in plastic wrap before being put in the plastic case. The 10.5" don't have plastic around them, so that's not my favorite box style.

I generally pass on those unless I know the seller from previous transactions. They are sealed in that you can tell if the hold-down tape has been broken or the white label has been disturbed, but you can only tell once you have the tape in hand. :(
 
The Quantegy pancakes in Tapecare boxes I have don't have the plastic film bags around the tapes either

I need to get a few bags for my old boxed tapes, but don't think the local supermarket have 10 1/2" sized ones on the delicatessen counter!!!
 
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