Tape Basics.......

[treidm]

I have tried to search and read as much as possible, as to not ask too many questions, but can't find answers to some questions I have. I'll just ask this one for now.

Could someone provide a basic "guide", if you will, to what tapes do what, or are good for what. The numbers and explainations for example, from the quantegy site don't really help. My understanding from what I've read is that you set the reel recorder up for what tape you want to run, or buy tape that the machine is already set to run. This of course could have it's limitations, depending on the machine.

All my analog recording in the beginning was on cassettes, so this wasn't as important a factor, then all my digital recording of course, it doesn't factor in at all. Now that I wish to "revert", if you will, and introduce some analog reel recording back into my mixes, I'm at a loss. Wish I had learned it all, back in the 70's or 80's, but was into vinyl not RtR, at the time.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Wil816]

All my analog recording in the beginning was on cassettes, so this wasn't as important a factor...back in the 70's or 80's

Actually it was pretty important. That's why Dolby B got a bad rap. It actually works quite well; but the machine's record level and bias has to be set up for the kind of tape you're using, and people were just recording on whatever tape they saw advertised or whatever the local stores carried. Even for pre-recorded tapes, playback level and EQ still has to be right too, which wasn't always the case, even when machines were new.

 

[Tim Gillett]

Agree. I've read some histories of the cassette and they often say how the cassette started out as a lo fi medium but eventually equalled or surpassed the audio quality of reel to reel.
That's only true assuming the good quality cassette recorder used Dolby and the reel to reel didnt. It also assumes as you say, that the Dolby was all in calibration.

Dolby is a bit like a highly tuned race car where everything has to be set up perfectly to achieve the higher performance. If it's not it can sound anything from slightly off to terrible.
Dolby in cassettes was marketed as a user friendly feature (just flip the switch) but in practice it can be anything but user friendly and you need to understand it and recorders generally to get it to work properly.

To quote from the service manual of the Revox A77 Dolby B model,

"To achieve correct performance (of the Dolby feature) both the record and playback sections must work at identical levels, that is the tape recorder must have unity gain and a very linear frequency response (my emphasis) from the output of the record processor to the input of the playback processor...."

But that's not the sort of careful qualification that would have sold Dolby to the public. So I guess they buried it deep in the service manuals.

Deciding that tape hiss was more bearable than significant Dolby mistracking, most consumers left the Dolby permanently switched off. You can hardly blame them.



cheers Tim.

 

[treidm]

I said it "wasn't AS important a factor", meaning as important as it is in open reel recording, but.....don't want to get into discussion about cassette recording, I shouldn't have mentioned it, or NR for that matter. Am I getting highjacked?

Don't record onto cassettes anymore, and don't plan on it, ever again. Record on ADAT & Hard disk(not computer), and wish to do some mixdown masters to open reel.

I would like information about "reel to reel" tapes. particularly 1/4" & 1/2" for half-track mastering.
Please....

I am new to open reel, so need the beginning basics.
Thx........

 

[talon]

Am I getting highjacked?

LOL, Yep, your post just got Jacked... Forget tape info, Now about that NR....

 

[Golden]

From what I understand, 407 tape is recommended for mastering down to 2-track... Not 100% sure... I think it depends on a few factors. Personally, I use 457. It's what I have laying around.

Nonetheless, I'm sure Beck will pop-up with all the answers you need...

 

[treidm]

From what I understand, 407 tape is recommended for mastering down to 2-track... Not 100% sure... I think it depends on a few factors. Personally, I use 457. It's what I have laying around.

Nonetheless, I'm sure Beck will pop-up with all the answers you need...

Thx...
I finished cleaning the recorder(completely, inside and out) that was given me. Which will be my experimenting deck, until I decide on a good one to buy. Don't think, It's the type I will need, but it was a freebie.

Today I received a reel of Quantegy 407 that I ordered, to play around with.

I took old tape off, of one of the two reels that came with the recorder. I noticed there is about 6 feet of a whitish vinyl like tape at each end, is this what is called "Leader tape"?

Before I start using this machine, I need some basics.

Do I need to buy a roll of leader tape?
Do I need an adhesive, or is it attached with another tape, if so what is that tape called?
Is leader tape different from splicing tape, or can they be used interchangeably?
In leader tapes, mylar or paper?
Is 7/32" leader, the correct size for 1/4" tape, or do you get the exact same size?
Does it make any difference that the plastic spools are not identical, ie. different hole config.'s etc.. on being balanced?
note: not attaching holes, just the outside of spools.
What steps should I take before trying to record?
What other basics do I need to be aware of in the beginning?

Wanna Play, but will wait until I get some answers....

Hurry, please!

 

[Wil816]

My first response above did not address the main question, but I thought was useful info appropriate to another part of your post. I'm sorry I can't specifically comment on different tapes. I've been out of the field for almost 25 years and I'm just getting back in. Back then, Ampex 406 and 456 was what most studios in the U.S. used, apparently because of Scotch's problem with dropouts on their 226 and other tapes. I suspect BASF and others were more common in Europe, and the Japanese ones in Japan.

Straining for answers, since 406 and 456 are still being made, I just remembered I had an article from Modern Recording, July 1980, comparing seven different tapes:

Ampex 456
BASF SPR-50 LHL
Fuji FB
Maxell UD-XL
Sony FeCr
TDK GX
3M Scotch 226

The areas were:

Rec/PB freq response, -3dB points, +10dB record level
Rec/PB freq response, -3dB points, 0dB record level
Rec/PB freq response, -3dB points, -10dB record level
Max rec level for 3% harmonic distortion, 400Hz
THD @ 1kHz, 0dB record level
THD @ 6.3kHz, 0dB record level
THD @ 100Hz, 0dB record level
MOL @ 12.5kHz
PB sensitivity @ 1kHz, 0dB record level
PB sensitivity @ 10kHz, -10dB record level
S/N re 3% THD, A-weighted, and unweighted
Drop-outs (Ampex 456 was best, Scotch 226 was worst)
Coating uniformity (results same as dropouts)
Slitting uniformity
Retention of signal

The last four tests above were subjective only.

They used a Revox B77 and a TEAC 6100 Mk II to test them, and unfortunately they did not re-align the machines to each tape. As a result, one machine would make one tape come out on top and the other one made it look worse than the others. The results were all very close however, much more so than those in their test of cassettes published in the May issue the same year. The last paragraph says, "While our present test results do not point to any 'winner' among the tape samples we used, they do show clearly that at least seven leading brands all are admirably suited for very fine performance with at least two fairly different kinds of open-reel deck. Again, it must be emphasized that the differences we measured (and most of the time could not actually hear) were truly small. For all this, it may be that one's final preference for this or that tape might be made on really subjective and fairly insignificant grounds, such as the packaging, or whether or not a leader is attached, or even the kind of printed index log supplied with the tape. It seems to have come to that."

I don't have a scanner but I could mail you a photocopy if you PM me with your address. I really don't want to mail out 50 of these, so maybe you could scan it and make it available to others. It's 8 pages, not including ads.

 

[treidm]

Thx, PM sent....

 

[Dr ZEE]

..the recorder...was given me. Which will be my experimenting deck...

No it won't. Unless you start experimenting instead of asking and waiting for basics
You've got the deck. You've got the tape. start recording something already In a day or two you'll be posting here advice(s) on what tape is the best for this and for that and what not.

***********
splicing tape and stuff:
get some:
http://www.usrecordingmedia.com/noname2.html
do something:
http://arts.ucsc.edu/ems/music/equipment/analog_recorders/Analog_Recorders.html
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~bunce/cutedit.htm
for what ever reason you may need or want or simply feel like doing it.
**********

So what IS your mystery recorder? If you tell folks what you have and what is your objective, then you may get a specific useful answer or two.

/respects

 

[treidm]

So what IS your mystery recorder? If you tell folks what you have and what is your objective, then you may get a specific useful answer or two.
/respects

My freebie is an AKAI GX 220-D.
It's a 1/4", 1/4 track deck. 1-7/8, 3-3/4, 7-1/2ips. Got the Glass heads. Not sure of the fluxivity (if thats the correct term), probably 185 or 200, just guessing, it is a lower consumer level deck.

I want to use a deck mostly for mixdown masters. Want to figure type of tape(s), I want to use.
That said, I will be looking for a 1/2 track, 1/4" deck, or 1/2" deck only if in price range(doubt it). Would like one with 15 & 30ips, but 7-1/2 & 15ips will do. Prefer balanced XLR's, but not a major factor. 10-1/2" reels. Semi-Portable(Don't want one the size of a stove). Oh and one with an edit mode, if there is such a thing? Prefer, not to get, made in Japan decks. Been looking at ads for Revox PR99's and a few others.
Reminds me, what is the difference in the three PR99's?
There is a MKI, MKII & MKIII

Gotta learn the beginning basics first. Totally new to RtR

Soon as I find out whether it's ok to spool up 407, without adding "leader" or whatever is needed. I'll get going, but will be patient if I need to buy a few other things.

Oh, and thanks for the URL's...

 

[talon]

I think the AKAI would have been setup for UD 35-90 or something like it. Probably good to stay with 1.0 mil.
So 407 should be fine.

So, you want to figure out, what kind of tape you want to use, by the type of recording you will be doing, and then will set up your new deck to suit?

Hmmm, smart way for a beginner to be looking at it.
I think your basic parameters for a mixdown master deck, are very good.

I will refrain from tape formulation talk and defer
I'm sure the brainiacs will chime in sooner or later, with enough info for you to decide.
(No offense meant brainiacs, and you know who you are )
Don't know the differences of the PR99's, but they are considered fine decks!
Hope the wait isn't too long!
I know you must be itching to fire it up!

 

[jpmorris]

My freebie is an AKAI GX 220-D.
That said, I will be looking for a 1/2 track, 1/4" deck, or 1/2" deck if in price range. Would like one with 15 & 30ips, but 7-1/2 & 15ips will do.

1/2" for 2-track is probably overkill. Most albums up until the mid-90s were mastered on 1/4" 2-track, so as I always say, if it was good enough for Pink Floyd it should be good enough for you
If you're looking to score a 1/2" 8-track or 16-track machine, more power to you.

Personally I'd stick with 15ips. 30 will give you about 16 minutes per reel, wear the unit down faster and strip the bass off as well. At 15ips you'll get up to 33 minutes per reel and a bass boost.

Also you'll be more limited in your choice of 30ips decks. Unless you can get your hands on a rare 30ips-converted Revox, you're most likely restricted to full-size Studer machines.

Prefer balanced XLR's, but not a major factor. 10-1/2" reels. Oh and one with an edit mode, if there is such a thing? Prefer, not to get, made in Japan decks. Been looking at ads for Revox PR99's and a few others.
Reminds me, what is the difference in the three PR99's?
There is a MKI, MKII & MKIII

I don't know the difference between mk2 and mk3, but the mk1 had a mechanical counter. The mk2 introduced an LED display and supports return-to-zero etc (I wish my B77 did, because the mechanical counter does suck.) They do have edit mode, which can be dead useful.

As for the leader tape, that's to prevent the ends of the tape getting chewed up which can happen if you lace it up badly so it gets bent, or if it winds off the end at full speed and flails around. If you leave the first minute or 30 seconds of the tape blank, that can serve the same purpose. I eventually switched to using proper leader since it's good practice for splicing.

Ideally, you use white leader at the start and red at the end - that way you can tell if the tape is wound to the beginning or the end when you take it out of the box. The reason for this is as follows:

For long-term storage, tapes should be wound to the end. The recording gradually seeps through to adjacent layers of the tape, a phenomenon known as 'print-through'. Thicker tape and lower recording levels are better to prevent that, although lowering the level is a compromise against tape hiss. It cannot be prevented entirely, but by storing it tail-out you'll get a faint echo. Storing it forwards (head-out) gives you pre-echo which is more noticeable and thus less desirable.
I don't know how long it takes to happen - I don't think any of mine have had this happen so far.

 

[treidm]

JPMorris:

Thx!!! Thats what I need, INFO. Now I'm learnin'

I thought the 1/2"er's would be price restrictive. So 1/4" it will probably be.

I see your point on time restriction on 10.5 reels, at 30ips.
My basic thoughts were, 1/2 track, 1/4" deck. 15ips. I planned on doing most recording at 15ips, I just thought if I had one that could do 30ips, I might try it now and then. Doubt if I would ever use 7-1/2ips, so thats why I said 15 & 30ips.

My multi-tracking will be done on my ADAT's & Hard disk recorders, through my Mackie board. So just thinking about a master deck.

So MKII or MKIII would be the better choice.
Glad they have some kind of editing mode, could be important.

Yep, gotta buy two colors leader tape, and I'm assuming, some splicing tape to put it to the 407 tape. Will order some tomorrow.

What is hold-down tape for? Just to hold down the end thats out, so it stays neat?

So try and always off-load tape to the takeup side, so it will be "tail out", after using?
This is all very interesting. I really enjoy learning new things, thanks!

 

[jpmorris]

JPMorris:
I thought the 1/2"er's would be price restrictive. So 1/4" it will probably be.

I see your point on time restriction on 10.5 reels, at 30ips.
My basic thoughts were, 1/2 track, 1/4" deck. 15ips. I planned on doing most recording at 15ips, I just thought if I had one that could do 30ips, I might try it now and then. Doubt if I would ever use 7-1/2ips, so thats why I said 15 & 30ips.

Depends what you're doing. A three-speed deck like the Studer A8xx would be awesome, but I do prefer the convenience of a semi-portable machine over something the size and weight of a cooker. No, you probably wouldn't want to use 7.5 for mastering, but playing back tapes from a portable machine like the UHER is useful, and being able to run a 15ips tape at half-speed is useful for strange effects and the like.

Yep, gotta buy two colors leader tape, and I'm assuming, some splicing tape to put it to the 407 tape. Will order some tomorrow.

You'll want an editing block too, of course. I believe you can still get those new, although ebay will have them too. Don't forget the razor blades either - try to get non-magnetic ones if you're going to be doing edits on actual program material or making tape loops, otherwise you'll get some popping noises. That's less important when you're doing the leader/tail thing, though.

What is hold-down tape for? Just to hold down the end thats out, so it stays neat?

Probably to keep it in place during the splice. To be honest I'm doing okay without any.

So try and always off-load tape to the takeup side, so it will be "tail out", after using?

If it's going back on the shelf, yes. If you're going to use it again in a day or so, there's not much point. As a rule I do the tail-out thing on my multitracks after I get about halfway through - it makes things easier, since if I'm going to record new songs or overdub on existing stuff, it's quicker to rewind from the end anyway.

This is all very interesting. I really enjoy learning new things, thanks!

I think the big problem was that you started with "tell me everything" - that made things more difficult to get my thoughts in order. More specific questions help...

 

[treidm]

I think the big problem was that you started with "tell me everything" - that made things more difficult to get my thoughts in order. More specific questions help...

But, I do want to know it all...

 

[Dr ZEE]

But, I do want to know it all...

Use REC.-button, it opens the gateway

 

[treidm]

Use REC.-button, it opens the gateway

Couldn't wait any longer....
Decided to do a few things in relation to personal past practices. First, wanted to unload, reload tape.
I off-loaded Quantegy 407 reel, to takeup reel.
Then realized, couldn't figure out how to re-attach tape to quantegy reel. It didn't have slot hole in center, like the other two spools, so you could push tape in slot, put a few laps on, and ready. Had an area that looked like it should have been a slot, but didn't get cut thru.
So re-loaded tape to my other empty spool, in reverse. Probably would be better at play speed, but was in hurry, so rewound it.

Decided to just try one of my cheap mic's, Shure SM58, to see what it would sound like.
Will try a recorded mix soon.
Recorded on left, then right channel. Tried different levels, from 0 to completely nailing the +3, which is the max on this VU meter. And that probably tells me that this deck is set up for +3 tape? Is that 185 or 200 nWb/m?

On play back as I spoke the levels out, playback levels were always less than what they were, when I recorded them. Is this normal?

Also the right channel seemed to be slightly weaker. I'm sure this isn't normal.
No scratchiness, so my complete cleaning must have been fairly thorough. Meters do jump, when deck is first powered up, but soon, lay to rest.

Even at consumer level 7-1/2ips, I was impressed at the quality of sound. If levels were evened out, it already sounds better that my 4-track cassette recorder ever did.

Now I'm getting excited to soon get a half track deck, and record at 15ips, being at higher speed & using more tape width to record on, Can't wait to see how good it could sound.

Also ordered today:
Editing/Splicing Block
http://www.tapecenter.com/noname6.html
Couldn't afford EDETall right now.

Head Demagnitizer - AmRecTech D-511C
http://www.splicit.com/maintenance.html Scroll Down
Couldn't afford Han-D-Mag, right now.

Leader Tape
http://www.splicit.com/leader_tape.html
Only white, don't have red yet, will make do for now.

Splicing Tape
http://www.splicit.com/splicing_tape.html

Hold Down Tape
http://www.splicit.com/hold_down_tape.html

Editing Razor Blades
http://www.tapecenter.com/sied100rabl.html

Probably didn't need it all, but better to have more than I need than something missing, that will hold me up.
Now gotta figure out how to use all this stuff, when I get it.

 

[jpmorris]

On play back as I spoke the levels out, playback levels were always less than what they were when I recorded them. Is this normal?

I believe that means that the deck isn't calibrated for that kind of tape, since the amount of energy needed to imprint the recording and the amount of amplification needed to read it back will vary depending on the formulation.

I'm not sure how easy it is to recalibrate Akai machines (you may well have to open it up as it's a consumer machine), but it should correct the left/right problem as well.

What you're doing with it and how much you can afford to spend has some bearing on how you go about this.

Basically your choices are as follows, in order of expense:

* Ignore it and compensate with the record/playback levels
* Calibrate it against itself (which will leave it somewhat incompatible with other machines)
* Pay a technician to do a proper calibration
* Spend a hundred or so on an MRL calibration tape (or less if you can find one on ebay) an oscilloscope and various other goodies to perform a full calibration yourself.

 

[treidm]

If you leave the first minute or 30 seconds of the tape blank, that can serve the same purpose. I eventually switched to using proper leader since it's good practice for splicing.

This may sound off, but I multiplied 7.5ips x 30 seconds, or 225" or 18 feet 9 inches of leader tape for each end.
That's 37 feet 6 inches on a 7" x 1800 ft reel.

At 15ips that is 75 extra feet of tape, but on a 10.5" reel.
All these are at 30 seconds, if you do a minute of leader tape, it all doubles.

Will the extra 37 feet 6 inches of tape fit on a full 7" x 1800 ft reel?

Or do you need to cut off that much tape to make room for leader?

Am I figuring this all wrong, or is this what is correct to do?