Taming Vocal Dynamics

Scottgman

Scottgman

Legend in Own Mind
OK, I'm having a problem with vocal dynamics. The singer in my band has a really strong voice. The problem is that when she gets to a part where she goes from kind of quiet to belting, I either have to a) ride the fader on the preamp, or 2) have her back off the mic. The problem is that when I do either of those things, her voice sounds more distant and I'm really liking the upfront sound we are getting on her voice.

Here's my chain:

NTK --> RNP --> RNC --> Delta

I read various things to do about this... such as using 2 mics, 1 condenser and 1 dynamic-- but I read about that in reference to screaming vocals. What I'm talking about isn't "screaming," just getting louder. Obviously I'd like to be able to keep the upfront sound without clipping. What else can I do? Should I get more agressive with the compression? Should I have her back off the mic a little AND back off the preamp a little instead of doing alot of either one? Is there something I can do at mix time?

Here is a sample of what I'm talking about (it's called 'Vocal Sample'):

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3498&alid=-1

Attached is a pic of the offending part of the vocal track. In the space before the part where she gets loud, I backed off the RNP probably 2 or 3 clicks. If I remember correctly, I asked her not to back off the mic because I was riding the gain on the preamp. But if she backs off the mic and I don't touch the preamp, we get the same issue.

What can I do?
 

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theres been endless debates on this over the years.
and really it comes down to the technique using the mic of the vocallist.
if the vocallist just isnt willing to excercise control theres nothing much you can do about it.
 
manning1 said:
theres been endless debates on this over the years.
and really it comes down to the technique using the mic of the vocallist.
if the vocallist just isnt willing to excercise control theres nothing much you can do about it.
Click to expand...

I guess I don't understand the whole situation then. How does she "exericise control?" Not getting so loud? Backing off the mic?

She's got pretty good mic technique and in this particular instance I asked her not to "work the mic." But it doesn't matter, because the results are the same. Whether she backs off the mic or I turn down the gain, the vocals still sound more distant compared to the softer vocal parts.

Are you saying that a vocalist with good "control" can get really loud but still manage to keep the vocals sounding "upfront" without clipping?

Is this one of those recording paradoxes that doesn't really have a good solution?

I'm confused.
 
Scottgman said:
She's got pretty good mic technique and in this particular instance I asked her not to "work the mic." But it doesn't matter, because the results are the same. Whether she backs off the mic or I turn down the gain, the vocals still sound more distant compared to the softer vocal parts.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me that your getting too much "room" when she works the mic. There are 4 possible 5 things you can do to help.

1) Tighten the acoustic properties where your recording vocals. I would even do tests of different "mic to mouth" and "loudness" distances to see when the "room" engages her vocals.

2) She might need to refine her technique slightly to control her volume better. I know a guy that is really loud when he doesn't have to be.

3)Compression - depending on the effect your looking for some compression might help level the overall performance.

4)Track the softer parts seperately from the loud parts and comp them with some compression to glue it.

5) Any mixture of the above.




SoMm
 
scott. its often a conundrum. one of the best vocallists i ever recorded
was a mezzo soprano years ago. what a learning experience THAT WAS !
she made it easy for me because of the way she worked with the mic.
for example moving aiming her mouth away from the mic on very loud parts .
she stood in one spot all the time using breath control and mic technique. i also set her up with a visual cue LED meter so she could SEE the levels.
i like son of mm's idea as well. doing several takes.
 
Thanks for the reply, SoMm.

Yeah, when she backs off the mic, there is definitely more "room" sneaking into the signal. But in this particular instance, I had her stay the same distance from the mic and I just turned down the gain for the loud parts. The effect is still the same-- she sounds more distant and less "upfront." Did you listen to the clip I posted (it's only like 15 seconds)?

I am using compression during tracking. I guess I should get more aggressive with the compression.

I have done the separate tracks thing for loud/soft parts and that seems to help a little... but I still get a more "distant" sound on the louder parts.

Anyway, I guess I got my answer: experiment until you find something that works. It's just frustrating because I love the sound we are getting except for the loud parts.
 
scott. no prob. try as an experiment letting her see the levels.
after a bit of trial and error i think youll be surprised that when she can actually see the levels on a vu or LED meter she will become gradually accustomed to the voice control aspects.peace.
 
Scottgman said:
Did you listen to the clip I posted (it's only like 15 seconds)?
Click to expand...

I can't hear squat until I fix all my upgrade to XP woes :(

Silent Scream and the Blue Screen of death :eek:

Are you using a music stand?

Sometimes with really loud singers I get a reflection off the stupid music stand. Throw a chunk of 703 on it and perforate the lyric sheets for giggles.

What mic are you using?

Sometimes a dual diaphragm LDC can be put in the figure 8 so that the room gets the old phase cancellation treatment.

Experimenting is the frustrating part when your trying to actually accomplish things. I always start with compression on vocals and it can get pretty extreme sometimes. Like manning said, you can always educate the performer on how the gear responds and what the problems are.
I had a guy who could not sit still....

...a little bit of duct tape and some sleeping bags can go a long way.

Try to have fun while experimenting to keep the singer from getting tense.

Peace,
SoMm
 
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