sytek and RNP similar sounding?

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GoneinUS

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I currently have a Sytek and I need 4 more channels (I am going to be recording drums). I was going to get 2 DMP3's. However, I have heard many good things about the RNP and was wondering if it sounds fairly similar to the Sytek, all else being equal? Would an RNP really add a different flavor, or would I be better of just saving my money (as I really don't have the budget for an RNP)?

Thanks
 
depends!...how exactly are you planning to mic up your kit and how does your room sound (the bigger question)?

for example: using the Sytek say for Overheads 1+ 2 and using Sytek 3 + 4 for kick and snare. You're pretty much ready to go, you now have to decide what else you're gonna mic. if its either toms, snare bottom, mono room mic, I would go with one or two DMP3's...if you like the way the toms are coming through your overheads I would use the RNP for front of kick mic, hi-hat, stereo room mics, or even mono room mic.

from someone who is recording his kit in a not so great room, I find IMO 2 overheads, kick, snare, front kick mic, and snare bottom (believe it or not) as my 6 most critical mics...I then like a mono room, hi hat (for better seperation pannning) and toms as lesser priorities...(I use 11 tracks total to print but depending on the tune, use less once tracked.) I could get away with tracking less channels, but I'm a bit anal!...I have an RNP and a DMP3 umongst others.

whats your plan?
 
Well, I was kinda thinking of using 4 to 5 tracks for the kit, and using the other 3 to 4 (I can track 8 at once with an RME) for scratch tracks of vocals, guitar and bass. The most I can see myself using for drums is probably 6 (kick, snare, 2 OHs, 2 toms). I am not positive about this yet, as I have not tried it, but that is my intention.
 
I would get the DMP3 for the two toms no doubt!

I find that mic'ing the toms gives me that initial thwack! you dont always get from the overheads. even if you're using 57's on the toms, the dmp3 is ideal for that application....the RNP will not show much if any noticeable upgrade in sound on toms. IMO not worth the extra $326.00.

I find the RNP shows its advantage over the DMP3 on high end sources like hi-hats, overheads, and even a bit more breath on a kick. (airy)

You're Sytek will be fantastic the way you'll be using it as well as for overdubs, so no need for the RNP (especially if your trying to budget) you'll always have a use for the DMP3 (as I stated previously) on other drum apps (in case you find the toms are coming through the overs without close mic'ing them)

I use the RME ADI-8 pro (Nuendo 8 i/0) as well along with a digi001.

good luck
 
I've always thought the Sytek to be mostly neutral; leaning towards dark. In comparison, the RNP is more "scooped" sounding; more airy, etc.
 
RNP is a very nice unit, worth the cost for whatever the purpose.

My real input here would be this: use 7 tracks for the drums initially, and use one track for all the scratches. Just use your mixer to mix the scratches into 1 track. It gets killed later anyway, and now you have more drum flexibility. I run all my scratches out aux 4, and can adjust the levels to track with the aux 4 send knob.
 
Ok, I plan on using my N-track mixer for all my mixing. Will mixing them all to one track still work with my computer based mixer? How would I set that up through my RME Multiface computer setup (new to this type of thing, sorry)?

Also, adding a RNP would give e more options, or is it quite a bit like the Sytek and I would be better spending the money on room treatments (I have a finite amount of money, more money on one thing means less on another)?
 
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Ok, I just found out that I would need an external mixer for the scratch tracks (as I do not have enough inputs in the RME). So this brings me to more questions:
1. If I am going to just be doing scratch tracks that will be overdubbed later, I could buy a cheap mixer for the scratch tracks, correct?
2. With this setup, I would only really need 7 preamp channels (as the 8th channel will only be used for scratch tracks and will be powered by the external mixer). So, should I get a DMP3 and a Studio Projects VTB-1? Is spending the money worth while on a RMP (realizing it is taking approxiately $300 from room treatments)? Is a VTB-1 a worthwhile addition or doesn't it add much?
 
GoneinUS said:
1. If I am going to just be doing scratch tracks that will be overdubbed later, I could buy a cheap mixer for the scratch tracks, correct?
Click to expand...


Sure.


2. So, should I get a DMP3 and a Studio Projects VTB-1?
Click to expand...


If that's what you're jonezin' for, then knock yourself out. You could also get a decent mixer and use it's built-in pres and kill a coupla' birds with that stone.

Is spending the money worth while on a RMP (realizing it is taking approxiately $300 from room treatments)?
Click to expand...

If it's taking away from the room treatment fund, then I would say absolutely not.
 
Would a Yamaha MG12/4 count as a decent mixer or not? Or if I am going to forgo the other preamps, should I spend more on a better mixer, like a mackie? I was thinking of maybe a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro.
 
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If you ahve the 4 sytek preamps, and you want to get 8 in, with one track of scratches... then you need at least 3 more direct outs on a board for the remaining drum mics, and then you'll need one preamp for each whatever... one for vocals, guitar, etc... I would get no less than a 6 channel board, preferably 8, with direct outs on each channel.
Then you just run your scratches out of an aux send to track 8, adjust the scratch mix with each individual channels aux send.
Pow.
 
GoneinUS said:
Would a Yamaha MG12/4 count as a decent mixer or not? ... should I spend more on a better mixer, like a mackie? ... maybe a Mackie 1402 VLZ Pro.
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The Yammie board is just fine for noncritical tracks IMO. I'm not sure I would necessarily agree that the Mackie Vlz is a "better" board than the Yamaha. The preamps on Mackies are good/decent, but the EQ is not so good. Plus, if you use Mackie boards long enough, you tend to notice the Mackie "sound." I don't too much like the Mackie "sound." The Yammie "sound," IMO, is not as pronounced as the Mackies.

tubedude said:
... I would get no less than a 6 channel board, preferably 8, with direct outs on each channel.
Click to expand...

Tubedude has a good idea about the minimum size of the board. Even if your board doesn't have direct outs, you could use the inserts as a direct out.
 
Ok, I plan on using between 4-7 tracks for drums, that means up to 3 track on the mixing board may be kept. Are these mixers going to be good enough? Should I still buy another preamp, such as the DMP3 to add additional good preamp capability? If I got a DMP3 and the Yamaha MG12/4, that would mean I would have 6 tracks of external pres, and would have to use 1 from the Yamaha if need be. Is this a good solution? Would a Behringer work with this setup?
 
Also, is there anything negative about using the inserts as direct outs?
 
GoneinUS said:
Also, is there anything negative about using the inserts as direct outs?
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No. The only thing is that the signal from the insert will be unbalanced. Just adjust your soundcard input to be unbalanced for these inputs. The sound won't affected ... as long as you use shorter cables. I think cable lengths under 15 ft keep you free from signal degradation of unbalanced signals.

The Yamaha board, a Soundcraft (I like these best of the budget boards), or the Mackie will do fine for the tom tracks of your drums.
 
I like Soundcraft too, but the M8 is over $200 more than the Yamaha 16/6FX that I am looking at. I think I could better use that money on room treatment. THe Soundcraft E series are cheaper, but I haven't heard much at all about them. Are they comparable to the Yamaha?
 
I've used the E-series extensively. A place that I do some regular work for has a large format Soundcraft board also. There is no difference to my ears in the larger mixers preamps and the E-series (routing and EQ differences 'yes' but not preamp to preamp). Among the budget boards, personally I think Soundcraft sounds the best. Plus most of the boards (with the exception of the smaller Folios) have at least three band EQs with sweepable mids... a very nice touch.

I've used the E-series extensively in combination with a Yamaha 02R (Version 2... not the latest 96kHz version) for about a year now. We used the Soundcraft E-series board as a sidecart for extra inputs when the 02R ran out of inputs. To my ears, I prefer the submixing that we did on the E-series board. There's a lot of headroom... the sounds are fairly neutral with a touch of (dare I say) "warmth." The EQs are very useable even though they are not fully parametric. At least, it smokes the 02R's pres... which isn't so hard a feat. But, remember the 02R was designed for professional applications and has been used in some part on quite a few commercial recordings.

So I give the E-series a big thumbs up. IMO, you can't do better in the budget range. I had a Mackie vlz for 3 years (just sold it for a small Soundcraft 1 week ago), and before that owned a Behringer. I've heard the Yamaha boards (decent). But IMO, the Soundcraft boards simply sound better.
 
I am thinking of going with the Yamaha MG16/4, because it is cheaper then the E-series and has 4 sub-groups. The pres on the E-series may be better, but I think the Yamaha would be a good starting point. The only thing I will keep for recording purposes from the board are the tom tracks, and from what I have heard, the Yamaha pres will do just fine on those. Eventually I will probably upgrade to an M12.

Anyway, I was wondering if a Studio Projects VTB-1 would be a good investment? I have a Sytek (with Burr Browns on 3 & 4) and then the pres on the Yamaha board. Would the VTB-1 add something different? Can I use the Yamaha board for D.I. for guitar and bass?
 
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