Synth advice and a hopefully easy question.

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Low

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Hi all.

Totally new to all this, and am gathering info to get a half decent set-up.

I've been enquiring about what synth to get to help me produce some good house ( and a small amount of techno ), music, and have pointed in the direction of the MS2000/MS2000R.

Firstly, is this synth good for a beginner, and other than a distinct lack of keys, is the functionality of the MS2000 and the MS2000R identical?

Secondly, I know what music I like, but don't understand what is meant by an 'analog sound'. Apparantly house music has good 'analog sound'. What exactly IS analog sound? An example maybe?

Thanks.

EDIT - SORRY, DIDN'T SEE THE NEWBIE SECTION. SHOULD HAVE GONE IN THERE REALLY.
 
OK, I will try to answer (had a few drinky poos).

Analog Synths (circa 1960/1970) use voltage controlled oscillators as apposed to small voltage "digital pulses". As a result, the analog signal is stronger (meatier) and flows more.

A digital signal is like cars stopping at a stop sign one by one. The analog signal is like a stream of cars moving on a street (uninterrupted). I find the analog signal has a more powerfull sound and many sounds are reminiscent of the 70s (yes, I was around then playing music).

I have looked very hard to find the "analog voice" of the 70s and finally settled on the Korg Microkorg. I believe it has the same engine as its big brother MS2000. The Korgs (Micro and MS2000) in my opinion have excellent "house techno" capabilities. I use my Korg for vintage sounds and powerfull bass.

I hope my rendition of the sound differences from my perspective helps. I am also new to home recording and have spent the past year buying every type of instrument I may need. Currently, I am saving for the M Box w/Pro Tools.
 
meTrex said:
OK, I will try to answer (had a few drinky poos).

Analog Synths (circa 1960/1970) use voltage controlled oscillators as apposed to small voltage "digital pulses". As a result, the analog signal is stronger (meatier) and flows more.

A digital signal is like cars stopping at a stop sign one by one. The analog signal is like a stream of cars moving on a street (uninterrupted). I find the analog signal has a more powerfull sound and many sounds are reminiscent of the 70s (yes, I was around then playing music).

I have looked very hard to find the "analog voice" of the 70s and finally settled on the Korg Microkorg. I believe it has the same engine as its big brother MS2000. The Korgs (Micro and MS2000) in my opinion have excellent "house techno" capabilities. I use my Korg for vintage sounds and powerfull bass.

I hope my rendition of the sound differences from my perspective helps. I am also new to home recording and have spent the past year buying every type of instrument I may need. Currently, I am saving for the M Box w/Pro Tools.
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Thanks. That makes sense as long as I understand it correctly, which I think I do, but as a comparison, what genre of music would fall into the 'digital' category.

Can you give me an example of a house tune which would some up 'analog'?
 
I would say if your looking for your "classic" house sound (say 86-94) I would say several machines fit the bill: Roland TR-909 for drums (Novation drum station does a pretty darn good 909), Yamaha DX-7 (digital FM Synth) - From this things you alot of basses, organs, rhodes. Roland TB303/SH101/MC202 - all the old acid boxes, Juno 6/60/106 more of a techno synth but sweet sounding for everything. Beyond that, late 80's samplers.

I really dont know how much use you will get out of a big VA like the MS2000 for house music though.

Check this:

http://www.di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html
 
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I would stay away from the older DX7 if your learning to program the synth yourself. I`m assuming thats what you really want to do.DX7 uses fm sound synthesis which i found awkward to get to grips with.

In which case the Korg MS2000b is pretty nice (the MS2000br is the rack version with no keyboard) , lots of easily accessable controls for many of the synths parameters right in front of you , you wont have to navigate awkard menu systems. It comes down to price and what you can afford. I had the Microkorg and found the small size keys and menu editing system irritating , I took it back and payed the difference for the MS2000b , pretty much the same engine but full size keys and much easier to program and tweak ( especially if you are new to synths).

The sound quality of the MS2000 is very pleasing , very easy to create nice swirling pads , hard leads, in fact many typically analogish sounds. Its useless for creating convincing instruments though , if you want instrument sounds go for a rompler (korg triton le around the same price). If you want electronic dance music capability go for the Korg MS2000b or maybe even a used access virus kb from ebay.

Another keyboard very similar in price and ability is the Alesis Ion, i havnt tried the ion but its supposed to be good. I personaly wont buy alesis gear for personal reasons but it is something you may want to look at. And of course the true analog Alesis Andromeda is there if you have the cash.

I love My MS2000 , i have been known to spend an entire evening tweaking and saving patches for the fun of it. The presets are very mixed , most are useless , some are pretty nice. I usually ditch factory presets and make my own because they are usually there for instant gratification .

I`d like to add that this is just my opinion and not necessarily the right opinion for you. I`m not trying to steer you away from anyone elses experiences or advice because everyone is different and everyone expects and creates their material in their own way :D
 
Low said:
Thanks. That makes sense as long as I understand it correctly, which I think I do, but as a comparison, what genre of music would fall into the 'digital' category.

Can you give me an example of a house tune which would some up 'analog'?
Click to expand...

Your welcome! However, after Cortexx's response....I am speechless, as his response is so accurate and well stated. My hat's off to that response. I learned alot reading it.
 
Hi-LOW:]

First of all, anything that you can hear--sounds--is analog. Digital sound is processed sound by zeros and ones and you can't hear it. You can hear it when it is converted to analog sound. Hence the AD and DA converters.

The DX7 was Yamaha's big start and it is a well-built and very good keyboard; however, it is somewhat obsolete and it is very difficult to find the DX-7 cartidges and patches. I have one but put it in its case when I got a Motiff ES keyboard--amazing sound quality and enough stuff on it to keep me in a learning mode for about 44 years.

It took me about 5 years and thanks to a couple of succinct and easy to follow books, plus tapes and more books from Yamaha to learn the keyboard's ins/outs. Any of today's synthesizers take time to understand. But, it doesn't take long to call up a patch and record.

Once you learn any of the major keyboards/synths to some degree, they all work in a similar fashion and most of the major brand synths are pretty awesome.

So, I wouldn't buy a DX7 because technology has long ago passed that synth; however, I wouldn't sell my DX7 either--might just link it up with the Motiff for the hell of it.

A junior college course dealing with electronic music would really help you to move forward as you'll be surrrounded by other students who know much info and most students are very willing to share. Hands on is good stuff.

Happy Spring
Green Hornet :D
 
Maybe I should have been a little more clear: Don't buy an actual DX-7, there are many excellent FM synths that are a little more modern (DX-200 is a good example) that still have a solid FM sound, I just refer to the DX7 as a generation (6 op FM) and I really would not worry about patches, there are literally 1000's available for free from all sorts of public DX sites. The nice thing about FM is the patches from the DX7 will work in any 6 op FM synth yamaha made (I use a TX802 which is 8 DX7II's in a box) and the patches are all the same. You can also uses them in the software FM-7 and the DX-200 from a couple of years ago. You can get a TX81Z for $50 so you want those sounds, they come pretty cheap
 
Thanks for all the feedback.

altitude909 - great link, very informative, even if I don't entirely agree with some of the authors personal views on specific genre's. :)

Even though I know what I like musically, I haven't kept too up to date with what's happening around it, it's just seems the 'branding', for want of a better word, of music has progressed further than I had imagined, and what I considered to be one type of music, is actually something completely different. Every type of music now seems to have it's own specific little box. :confused:

To re-clarify the type of music I am interested creating, going by altitude909's link, I suppose it would come more under trance, dance, electro/dance, of some type or another.

cortexx - always nice to see a good review for the MS2000BR ( I take it the R is similar to the BR? ).

The MS2000R has been purchased ( won't get it until next week ), and I realise I will probably need a synth which will be good for doing strings and pianos a little further down the line - any advice ( going on a similar budget to the MS200R ), for what could be suitable?
 
Well for trance, u want to save up for a Access Virus. It's pretty much the standard dance synth. Other hardware that is good is a Korg ER-1 (cheap now) or ER-1 Mk2 (or any of those boxes actually) . It is frighenting how many ppl use those with great results, almost wish I had not sold mine. Get as much time as possible with a sampler (software or hardware)
 
altitude909 said:
Well for trance, u want to save up for a Access Virus. It's pretty much the standard dance synth. Other hardware that is good is a Korg ER-1 (cheap now) or ER-1 Mk2 (or any of those boxes actually) . It is frighenting how many ppl use those with great results, almost wish I had not sold mine. Get as much time as possible with a sampler (software or hardware)
Click to expand...

Will what I have purchased be of considerable use?
 
altitude909 said:
Maybe I should have been a little more clear: Don't buy an actual DX-7, there are many excellent FM synths that are a little more modern (DX-200 is a good example) that still have a solid FM sound, I just refer to the DX7 as a generation (6 op FM) and I really would not worry about patches, there are literally 1000's available for free from all sorts of public DX sites. The nice thing about FM is the patches from the DX7 will work in any 6 op FM synth yamaha made (I use a TX802 which is 8 DX7II's in a box) and the patches are all the same. You can also uses them in the software FM-7 and the DX-200 from a couple of years ago. You can get a TX81Z for $50 so you want those sounds, they come pretty cheap
Click to expand...

Mind if I cut in?

Do you know if the Yamaha Vintage FM Synth Plug In board for the ES any good? Can you really get the sound of a DX-7 out of a Motif?
 
cortexx said:
YIKES ! :eek:

change your order immediately

The Korg MS2000b is the keyboard
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_prod_no=MS2000B&category_id=1

The Korg MS2000br is a rack version with NO keyboard
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_prod_no=MS2000BR&category_id=1

if you want the keyboard you want the MS2000b ;)
Click to expand...

:)

I know. I'm getting the rack version, as where I will be working I won't have a great deal of desk space. I will set up the rack to the side and purchase a midi controller for the keyboard function ( that will work, yes? ).

Apart from the keyboard, are they identical in functions?
 
yes they are the same apart from the mod and pitch bend wheels which should be replicated on the midi controller.

for a good midi controller take a look at these ....

http://www.cme-pro.com/product.html

although the ms2000b KB is not going to take up that much more room than a rack and midi controller.
 
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