Synchronizing my Synth

[RetroMan]

Hi Cubasers
I've got a bit of a dilema - what I need to do is record a full composition from the sequencer on my synth into Cubase and get in in sync.

Normally I wouldn't worry about getting things runnning in sync as the drums on the sequencer mix usually keeps everything in time once I dump the lot into Cubase.

My problem is my 'human' drummer wants to play real drums to my sequenced composition. So, this is where i'm out of my depth - somehow I need to get the sequenced drums into it's own isolated track with the rest of the composition in another track (while keeping them in synchronization with each other)
I want to be able to delete the synth drum track at a later stage when the human drums are recorded and I can't do that unless it's on it's own isolated track.

I know this is quite a complex problem/situation as there are zillions of different synths and soundcards out there, I would be very grateful for some help - i'm still a newbie, so you may have to walk me though the whole process (like hooking everything up) and explain it a bit to me as I am new to MIDI - especially the marriage between external hardware and Cubase

A quick rundown of my rig & what I am using:
Computer: 2.41Ghz AMD Athlon64FX 1GB RAM
Soundcard: Creative Audigy2 ZS with external breakout box
Cubase Version: Cubase SX/SL
Keyboard: Yamaha W7 Synthesizer Workstation

I've also got a freaky looking MIDI cable that I need for this right?
I think what i'm trying to do is use the MIDI as a trigger so when I run the sequencer drum track, Cubase will start recording dead on cue, so afterwards when I record all the rest on another track, the two tracks will be in sync with each other on playback.

All advice and help is very much appreciated, my Drummer will be particularly pleased as he wont feel so obsolete

Thanks in advance

 

[cliff richard]

cant you just set up a click track on cubase (metronome) to the tempo you want to record at and not use your keyboard drums?

 

[RetroMan]

cant you just set up a click track on cubase (metronome) to the tempo you want to record at and not use your keyboard drums?

Thanks very much for the advice Cliff, I could do that, but I want my drum pattern to remain on there for a bit, so the drummer can follow my lead with some of the fills and progessions.
To tell you the truth, I'm really happy with the drums as they are, but I want to keep my human drummer happy - he's feeling a bit left out

If I can't achieve what I originally wanted to do, how can I get the Cubase metronome in sync with my sequence? I'm new to this rememeber

 

[noisewreck]

You should be able to synchronise Cubase and your synth using MIDI. I'm not at my music computer right now, so can't give you a step-by-step. Read the help file on syncing in Cubase.

The way I'm thinking you could go about this is set the Cubase project to the same tempo as your sequence in your synth, but set Cubase to be the master. Now, you should be able to have your hardware sequencer start in sync when you hit the play button in Cubase (check the settings on your synth, to be able to do this). Now, once you're able to start the hardware sequencer from Cubase, you could just make two runs of it (I'm assuming you're just interested in recording the audio coming out of your synth). First pass will be just the drum track, and the second track everything else. Hope this makes sence.

 

[RetroMan]

The way I'm thinking you could go about this is set the Cubase project to the same tempo as your sequence in your synth, but set Cubase to be the master. Now, you should be able to have your hardware sequencer start in sync when you hit the play button in Cubase (check the settings on your synth, to be able to do this). Now, once you're able to start the hardware sequencer from Cubase, you could just make two runs of it (I'm assuming you're just interested in recording the audio coming out of your synth). First pass will be just the drum track, and the second track everything else. Hope this makes sence.

YES! this that all makes perfect sence! this is what I'm trying to do yeah, all i'm interested in is recording the 'audio' from my Synth sequencer and i'm wanting to use the MIDI as a 'trigger' to start recording each track while doing two passes, the drum audio, then the rest with them remaining in sync.

I have just realised that my MIDI cable is like the old style joystick soundcard port and my soundcard breakout box has it's own round MIDI in and out ports
like the ones on the back of my synth so I'll have to go and grab a new MIDI cable with the round type connectors at both ends.

Then I'll work out how to activate Cubase as the master and do some experimenting - if I have both running at the same tempo and use the Cubase record button as the trigger, it should get in sync - even the tempo bars should line up and everything (graphicially)
I think I can nail this! I've been putting this off for the longest time

Thank you very much noisewreck - you are a big help

 

[RetroMan]

The way I'm thinking you could go about this is set the Cubase project to the same tempo as your sequence in your synth, but set Cubase to be the master. Now, you should be able to have your hardware sequencer start in sync when you hit the play button in Cubase (check the settings on your synth, to be able to do this). Now, once you're able to start the hardware sequencer from Cubase, you could just make two runs of it (I'm assuming you're just interested in recording the audio coming out of your synth). First pass will be just the drum track, and the second track everything else. Hope this makes sence.

Noisewreck - after a bit of trial and error, to my greatest joy, I managed to get Cubase to trigger off my Synth's sequencer via midi cable, but there is still a few sync problems I still need to sort out - I think i'm nearly there!!!

When I 'record' the first pass, the metronome (in Cubase) is in perfect sync
with what's being recorded from my synth (though the beats dont match up visually with the graphic tempo grid) Even when i've done the first pass and I listen to the playback, it's still in sync with the onboard metronome, but when I disarm the stereo tracks i've just recorded and arm the next tracks for the second pass (for the drums) it's slightly out of sync with the first tracks I recorded!?!??

I may have a master and slave conflict or something because Cubase's metronome still remains in sync with the synth but the recorded first pass tracks are slightly out of sync.
Is there a screen where you can go in and select Cubase as the MASTER and my synth as the SLAVE? when I go into the MIDI setup section on my synth, all I get is a screen that says

Device Number =ALL (you can select 1 to 16 or 'all')
Local =OFF (you can select on or off)
Program Change =OFF (you can select on or off)

and I dont really indersand it that well - I turned Local to 'off' because I thought that might have something to do with the master/slave thing?!?


Could be the tempo between both is out of sync too??? - have I worked that out right? my sequence tempo is set at 120 on my Synth and in Cubase i've set it's tempo at 120.000 is that the same thing with Cubase having three decimal places where my Synth doesnt?
sorry, I'm not the best at math, but is that equal tempo?


Thanks for your help - I think i'm if virge of getting this worked out - it's going to open up a huge opporunity for me when I do - I have been putting this off for ages!

 

[noisewreck]

I just looked at the sync options in Cubase. It looks like when you're syncing only through MIDI, Cubase has always supposed to be the Master. In the sync dialog in Cubase (Transport menu->Sync Setup...) pretty much the only thing you'd need to activate is the MIDI out port that your synth is connected to under "Send MIDI Clock". If your synth also understands MIDI time code (not all do), then you may also want to activate the MIDI out port that your synth is connected to under "Send MIDI Timecode". This will allow you to rewind/forward/start somewhere in the middle, and the sequencer playback will always start from the correct spot in the song. Leave "Timecode source" and "Machine control" to "none".

Now, when you hit the Start button in Cubase, and assuming that your synth is setup to receive external MIDI clock, the sequencer on your synth should start playback, and should be in sync with Cubase. As to how you setup your synth to receive external clock, I'm afraid I can't help you there. The items that you listed don't have anything to do with it. I'm assuming "Local" turns on or off the built-in keyboard control (that's what it does on my K2600), Program Change probably enables/disables program change by a remote device (such as another MIDI controller or Cubase for example). Device Number might have something to do with SysEx ID.

Some further thoughts:

There have been some known issues with the MIDI timing being off when using "Emulated" ports (look at the MIDI port name in the track inspector in Cubase. If you see "Emulated" in the name, that can be the cause for your issues)... You can read more about it at:
http://service.steinberg.net/knowledge_pro.nsf/show/sx_emulated_midi_ports

Another thing you might want to try is this:
Go to the Preferences (File->Preferences), click on "Transport" in the left hand list and check the box that says "Always use MIDI Clock Start".

If you're on SX 3, I believe there were some MIDI sync issues with earlier versions, so you might want to update to version 3.1 (I'm on SX2, so don't take my word for it)

Finally, check your soundcard settings, such as latency/buffer size, and if necessary, lower it.

And yes 120 on your synth is the same as 120.000 in Cubase. Please note that when Cubase is the master, it doesn't matter what the tempo setting on your synth is, as it will be controlled by Cubase. That's why I suggested you set Cubase to the same tempo as your synth, so the sequence plays at its original tempo.

Hope this helps

 

[RetroMan]

There have been some known issues with the MIDI timing being off when using "Emulated" ports (look at the MIDI port name in the track inspector in Cubase. If you see "Emulated" in the name, that can be the cause for your issues)... You can read more about it at:
http://service.steinberg.net/knowledge_pro.nsf/show/sx_emulated_midi_ports

I think this is the problem, because I tried eveything else you mentioned to no avail and when I look at the ports there is quite a few of them (generic and soundblaster2 zs) and they all have (emulated) written next to them in brackets.
The link you gave explained pretty much everything about the port emulation, but it didn't say how to remove it so you can use your actual real MIDI port???!!!!

 

[noisewreck]

Oh, sorry, didn't read the whole thing, thought it gave the advice on how to enable the "real" ports... To do this, go into the Cubase SX folder. In there you should find a folder called "MIDI port enabler". In that folder you'll see a file called "ignoreportfilter". Just drag that file into the main Cubase SX folder, and restart Cubase...

Just saw that you mentioned SoundBlaster. Is this the audio card that you're using? If so, then that can be the culprit right there.

 

[RetroMan]

Oh, sorry, didn't read the whole thing, thought it gave the advice on how to enable the "real" ports... To do this, go into the Cubase SX folder. In there you should find a folder called "MIDI port enabler". In that folder you'll see a file called "ignoreportfilter". Just drag that file into the main Cubase SX folder, and restart Cubase...

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!

Noisewreck! I am so grateful - I knew we would work this out eventually
so all along it was the emulated MIDI ports that was causing the problems!
just a simple drag and drop and now the system is running like Swiss clockwork!!!!!!!!!!

I actually learnt a few extra things along the way while working this out.
Thanks for getting me movtivated again - I wish I could buy you a beer or two!

 

[noisewreck]

Wonderful! Glad you got the problem solved