Sync my JH-110A to Reaper DAW via a JL Cooper PPS-1

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man-bot

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Title says it all! I purchased a PPS-1 off ebay for $1.00 (advertised as working). When I stripe a track with SMPT from the JL Cooper PPS-1 and then run the midi out from it to my interface its a no go in Reaper. I have enable playback to be synchronized in Reaper...

Mildly frustrated here - this should be simple, but it won't work for me!!

Ideas?
 
Lots of things can go wrong.

One thing to check is if the PPS-1 has been set internally for SMPTE/MTC. The default setting from the factory is Smart FSK/MIDI Clock w/Song Position Pointer. SMPTE/MTC is a "Hidden feature" of the PPS-1. MIDI Clock and MIDI Time Code are two different MIDI specifications with no relation to each other. If you (or the previous owner) have not opened the PPS-1 and changed the internal jumper then it won't be stripping SMPTE or sending MTC to your DAW. The lock light on the PPS-1 will still glow because that's just telling you it's receiving adequate signal from the tape and sending out the corresponding MIDI data. The lock light works the same with Smart FSK/MC SPP as it does with SMPTE/MTC.

Tell us more about your setup.

What DAW interface are you using?

What's the condition and length of your MIDI cables?

Is the power adapter for your PPS-1 the original? What are the volts and amps listed on the adapter?
 
Miroslav - I had checked the document already... there really shouldnt be much to this, but I can't get it going!

Beck - My setup is JH-110A (striping on track 7 as track 8 is being funky)>JL Cooper PPS-1 ver 3> Alesis io26 interface>Reaper DAW... my console is bypassed in the chain but I can monitor the channel and hear SMPTE being striped.

There is a separate tone present if switched to FSK. There is an external switch to choose between FSK and SMPTE for striping on PPS-1... maybe there is no internal dip switch on version III. I have been striping at -10 on the JH vu - perhaps I should up the level.

At the moment I have Track 7 in/out to the JL cooper and midi out from the JL cooper to the midi in of the io26. I am using Reaper on a Macbook BTW - although I doubt that matters.

I can stripe SMPTE, and on playback get the lock light blinking on the JL Cooper and the midi light on the io26 blinking in unison. The transport on Reaper is set to synchronized mode. Reaper doesn't play when I hit play on the MCI, but does jump way ahead (really far ahead) when I hit stop...

Midi cable is newish - purchased about 5 years ago and never used really. Power adapter is not original but is putting out 9vdc @ 600mA (which should be sufficient).

So something is going through... just not what I need.

I can also use Logic if you think it may be better for the task at hand... I'm just much more comfortable with Reaper.

Mike
 
man-bot said:
Miroslav - I had checked the document already... there really shouldnt be much to this, but I can't get it going!

Beck - My setup is JH-110A (striping on track 7 as track 8 is being funky)>JL Cooper PPS-1 ver 3> Alesis io26 interface>Reaper DAW... my console is bypassed in the chain but I can monitor the channel and hear SMPTE being striped.

There is a separate tone present if switched to FSK. There is an external switch to choose between FSK and SMPTE for striping on PPS-1... maybe there is no internal dip switch on version III. I have been striping at -10 on the JH vu - perhaps I should up the level.

At the moment I have Track 7 in/out to the JL cooper and midi out from the JL cooper to the midi in of the io26. I am using Reaper on a Macbook BTW - although I doubt that matters.

I can stripe SMPTE, and on playback get the lock light blinking on the JL Cooper and the midi light on the io26 blinking in unison. The transport on Reaper is set to synchronized mode. Reaper doesn't play when I hit play on the MCI, but does jump way ahead (really far ahead) when I hit stop...

Midi cable is newish - purchased about 5 years ago and never used really. Power adapter is not original but is putting out 9vdc @ 600mA (which should be sufficient).

So something is going through... just not what I need.

I can also use Logic if you think it may be better for the task at hand... I'm just much more comfortable with Reaper.

Mike
Click to expand...

You got PPS-1 Version Three for a dollar? Awesome! :) Ok, I got ya... yep, no need to open it then. I have the original version with only one switch on the outside and the jumper inside. And your power adapter is good as long as the center pin is +V.

I do see a couple potential problems however. The lock LED on the PPS-1 should be steady on rather than flashing. If it's flashing on and off in playback mode you're not getting sync. This could be from the signal coming off the tape not being hot enough... or in some cases too hot. Either case can cause failure to sync and/or misreads. -10 VU should be good, but because of differences in machines and tape formulations you can play with that level a bit. You can experiment by recording at different levels or put an active circuit between the tape deck and PPS-1 tape input so you can accentuate and attenuate the signal until you get sync lock. I've found -7 to -5 works well for me on any tape deck using the PPS-1, PPS-2 or PPS-100 (I have all three).

Another problem you may run into after the sync lock is resolved is how SMPTE/MTC is set to receive in Reaper. I don't use Reaper, but there should be something in the MTC sync receive settings to select frame rate and offset time. Frame rate should be set to 30 FPS (non-drop) and offset time should be a second or two more than the start time of what the PPS-1 striped to tape. So if you see something like, Start Time or offset time 00:00:00:00 then add a second or two or five like so... 00:00:05:00. But wait!!! If you have a version of the PPS-1 that defaults to a start time of 00:00:30:00 then set the offset time in Reaper to 00:00:35:00. Hopefully it just gives you an option to add a second of two like so... Offset Time 02.00 (for 2 seconds). The important thing is that it should be a slightly later time than the start time from the PPS-1.

A couple other pointers for the PPS-1.

Make sure the switch is in SMPTE position before turning the unit on and into stripe mode.

Make sure the tape is running in record with a little pre-roll before turning the PPS-1 to stripe mode. That is, the tape should already be rolling in record mode when you flip the PPS-1 switch to Stripe.

EDIT: Corrected a couple typos and clarifications for better understanding.
 
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Thanks!

I actually got Reaper to lock last night, but it is jittery! Unless I set the "freewheel on missing code" to a longer time (i.e. 1000 ms) it won't run smooth - I may be able to reduce that time but if I set it to a low number (i.e. 1-2 ms) it will stutter along re-syncing rather then chasing. I striped at -10vu... it won't lock above -7vu, but my set up is running at +3 so it may be a bit too hot up there. At -10 it locks and holds... although occasionally it won't and I have t turn the PPS-1 off. Finicky!

It does not give me a framerate setting unless in LTC mode (not MTC) at which point it does not show a midi-in option for sync, so no dice there!

It immediately starts at 30 mins in to the track though which is a bit of a PITA, not sure whether I can adjust that in the settings somewhere (there is an "offset incoming timecode" setting which I guess I could input -1800000ms in there). The other thing I'm finding is that this will only be useful for starting my tape machine and digital rig recording at the exact same time... I'm not sure but I was expecting a bit more flexibility as far as where it starts and when but in reality that functionality should be just fine as it will mostly be used to increase available inputs/outputs in a live off the floor setting. I guess that is all I should expect working with SMPTE.

I have my eye on an MS-16 which is restored and aligned (by a tech I know)... that may be more convenient. I just have an emotional connection to the MCI!

Thanks for all your help!
 
man-bot said:
Thanks!

I actually got Reaper to lock last night, but it is jittery! Unless I set the "freewheel on missing code" to a longer time (i.e. 1000 ms) it won't run smooth - I may be able to reduce that time but if I set it to a low number (i.e. 1-2 ms) it will stutter along re-syncing rather then chasing. I striped at -10vu... it won't lock above -7vu, but my set up is running at +3 so it may be a bit too hot up there. At -10 it locks and holds... although occasionally it won't and I have t turn the PPS-1 off. Finicky!

It does not give me a framerate setting unless in LTC mode (not MTC) at which point it does not show a midi-in option for sync, so no dice there!

It immediately starts at 30 mins in to the track though which is a bit of a PITA, not sure whether I can adjust that in the settings somewhere (there is an "offset incoming timecode" setting which I guess I could input -1800000ms in there). The other thing I'm finding is that this will only be useful for starting my tape machine and digital rig recording at the exact same time... I'm not sure but I was expecting a bit more flexibility as far as where it starts and when but in reality that functionality should be just fine as it will mostly be used to increase available inputs/outputs in a live off the floor setting. I guess that is all I should expect working with SMPTE.

I have my eye on an MS-16 which is restored and aligned (by a tech I know)... that may be more convenient. I just have an emotional connection to the MCI!

Thanks for all your help!
Click to expand...

Sounds to me you're still having problems at the time code-in level from the tape deck to the PPS-1. Until you get that resolved you won't get a good picture of how well Reaper plays with SMPTE/MTC. You mentioned you're using track 7 for time code because something is screwy with track 8... is that correct? You may even have head issues or other tape machine issues that are making the recording/playback of code unreliable. edge tracks usually exhibit problems first when a head is getting worn down. But before going there I would put some kind of mixer between the track 7 output and PPS-1 input, even a simple passive attenuator, so you can adjust levels. The JL Cooper boxes have been rock solid for me... better than most. But they will malfunction if the level coming off tape is too low or too hot... or if you're having excessive dropouts from bad or dirty heads, or internal amp circuit issues... or other transport issues. But any electronic device can fail, including the PPS-1 of course.

If I couldn't get my DAW to reliably slave to my analog machines I'd be using only analog myself... but don't throw in the towel yet! Try rigging something to adjust levels between tape output and PPS-1 tape input first. Or hell... just get the Tascam MS16 and be done with it! I still often have projects where I don't use my DAW at all and I mix and master to analog half-track, only converting to digital at the last possible phase through an HHB CDR850 professional CD recorder. IMO its the best way to preserve that analog goodness.

HHB CDR850 Professional

That being said, having 16 tracks of digital to augment my analog setup can come in handy. If it ever gets to be too much of a PITA though I'll go back to all-analog in a heartbeat.

Wish I knew Reaper a bit better, as I really can't help you there. I use Adobe Audition with two Echo Layla 24's and one or more of the JL Cooper boxes, because I also drive MIDI synths/drum machines along with the DAW... and everything works as it should... pure blissful synchronicity.

PS: If there is something wrong with your PPS-1 it is likely what goes wrong with most electronic devices that are getting on in years... capacitors! I have an old one... Version 1.2... nearly 25 years old. If it ever started acting up I would change the 5 electrolytic capacitors inside.
 
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Heyo - I'll run the signal through my console and play with the level from there (I have a Soundcraft Series II circa 1978 - 24/8) which is already nicely routed through the patchbay so getting it inline is no issue.

The heads on the MCI aren't an issue as they are recently relapped by JRF. The electronics though... well all has been cleaned and plays nicely most of the time but it can be a bit cranky. She wasn't acting up at all during that session. As you suggest I'll run it through my console and play from there.

I really am thinking of pulling the trigger on the MS-16... they guy wants $600 and the heads look great (and given its been gone though by a tech I know its an alright deal). I have 5 or 6 NOS reels of 1" too.

In your opinion am I really sonically losing much between the JH-110 and the MS-16? I just can't wrap my head around going from an MCI to a Tascam deck with half the width and not appreciably losing something sound wise... but its likely all in my head and the convenience would outweigh any perceived sonic difference.

I'll keep playing - if I could get it to lock like a gem I'd be smiling! Ideally I would just use my analog setup and just have the digital in there on my echo returns (I need to get some reverb and delay outboard!!).

Thanks for the help!
 
A Tascam MS-16 for $600.00? Just do it!!! :)

I don't think its a matter of better or worse than your JH-110, but different. 16 tracks on 1" tape is not going to be much different sound wise than 24 on 2". The MS-16 is a good machine and at that price its worth finding out for yourself if it works for you.
 
The Tascam would be a great acquisition, especially at that price point.

Personally I HATE MCI JH machines. I had the job of Engineer for a couple of years at a facility that had one studio with two of the wretched creations supposedly synced together to get the studio up to 32 tracks. I spent more time in that freaking studio trying to keep two of those things running at the same time and even more trying to get the synchronization to work. I ended up building circuit boards that did signal conditioning to a level where they "worked". Ugg, I want those two years back!

Years later, some evil person there offered those two machines to me if I wanted to haul them away. I considered it briefly if for nothing more than getting a small measure of revenge on them by kicking them out of the back of my truck at the quarry...... :drunk:
 
Ha! My JH-110A has been somewhat challenging, but I did buy it in DOA condition and have brought it back to life. So I am a bit partial for non audio reasons.

I have run into a small snag on the MS-16 though... no panel to arm tracks for recording!! So essentially it would make a nice conversation piece and not much more. Kinda bummed there. I missed it in the photos, but assumed that panel would be on the main chassis... no dice though. No remote with it either (or AQ65). Bummer!!
 
Thats a bummer. but you figured it out before you took the plunge. If you looked you could find the remote. But at what price?

Keep looking, when you least expect it one will fall in your lap, trust me, LOL
 
Well the MS-16 is now in my possession and Cs-63, Rc-65 & Aq-65 with stand are on their way!

I guess 16 tracks should be good for now haha

Excited to roll some tape!
 
man-bot said:
Well the MS-16 is now in my possession and Cs-63, Rc-65 & Aq-65 with stand are on their way!

I guess 16 tracks should be good for now haha

Excited to roll some tape!
Click to expand...

Congrats! Well that is one way to solve the original problem. :) At this stage I can say I will never need more than 16 tracks, but I always slave MIDI instruments so I will always have more tracks than however many analog tracks I have.
 
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