Sync-ing analog and digital?

T

thecongo

New member
Hey there,
I have a Tascam TSR-8 1/2" deck and an Alesis ADAT (software v. 3.60). And I was wondering if there was any way to sync the two together cheaply and effectively. I hate the way the ADAT sounds, but it would still be good to have there in case extra tracks are needed. If any one has any thoughts or suggestions please let me know. Thanks!
 
Cheaply? Depends on how much you can score a BRC for..

You need the ADAT BRC and a SMPTE reader/writer to stripe the SMPTE on the analog tape (or will the BRC output SMPTE to an analog tape, anyone?)

Essentially you sacrifice one track on the analog deck for SMPTE time code. That signal is fed into the BRC and it will lock the ADAT to the analog deck.
 
Tex gave you the run down on what you will need to achieve sync between the two units.

But a word of warning. The reel motor of the analog deck needs to be VERY stable for this to work. If the SMPTE timecode on the analog tape varies in speed too much, the ADAT will lose sync. The tolorances for syncing ADAT's are not very wide. I have many bad experiences trying to sync ADAT's to analog machines in the past. So I am just warning you, DON'T think that the BRC is the only thing you need to be on your way. If the Tascam cannot play back with VERY close speed tolorances, you will lose sync in a hurry. It would pay to borrow a BRC first (before purchasing one) to see if it will work. If it does, cool. If not, well, you will need to have your analog deck checked out to see if the motor is possible out of whack a bit. But to tell you the truth, there is as good of a chance that the motor will not EVER play back reliably enough for the ADAT to sync to it. Hopefully, your Tascam will.

Good luck.

Ed
 
Would a JL Cooper PPS-2 work as well? or would I need something different. I'm not used to bridging technology together. hehe
 
thecongo said:
Would a JL Cooper PPS-2 work as well? or would I need something different. I'm not used to bridging technology together. hehe
Click to expand...

I won't claim to know alot about the the PPS-2, but I believe you'll need more than that. It will generate SMPTE code, and when given SMPTE timecode it can spit out appropriate MIDI timecode. But I don't think it will actually control the transport of an ADAT or a TSR8.

As noted by various different posters above, in order to control the transport of ...

... the ADAT, so it chases the TSR8, you'd need a BRC ("big remote control," right?).

... the TSR8, so it chases the ADAT, you'd need a synchronizer like an MTS1000, ATS500 or ES50.

As to what should be the master and what should be the slave, there are two theories that I'm aware of: (i) the less stable transport should chase the more stable, (ii) do whatever's cheapest.

I'm not sure which is the more stable transport. I would guess the ADAT, but I don't really know. A TSR8 does have a quite stable transport, but the ADAT presumably is pretty much locked to a digital clock.

I don't know which way is cheaper either. What do BRCs go for? The market for tape deck synchronizers is thin, so prices vary wildly. An MTS1000 would be $200+. It's also does MIDI sync, and provides a full range of remote functionality for two tape decks. The price of an ATS500 is all over the place: according to some notes I took awhile ago, Prepal said $125, and eBay transactions ranged between $42 and $200.
 
Dont ever make a digital machine chase an analog transport, if you can help it. Also do yourself a favor, even tho the brc will convert ADAT sync to SMPTE, just record SMPTE on to a track of the ADAT...yeah, youll loose a track, but if theres no BRC around, youll thank yourself later!
 
pipelineaudio said:
Dont ever make a digital machine chase an analog transport, if you can help it. Also do yourself a favor, even tho the brc will convert ADAT sync to SMPTE, just record SMPTE on to a track of the ADAT...yeah, youll loose a track, but if theres no BRC around, youll thank yourself later!
Click to expand...

Is the ADAT really considered a digital machine in this scenario since it uses a mechanical tape transport? In the few instances I've synced a DAW to tape (usually video for scoring) I always slave the DAW since it's usually much cheaper and easier to do.

I was just curious as to your reasoning behind always using the digital deck as the master. Isn't an analog machine more stable if it's not trying to chase something?
 
Haven't done this either, but I would think that a digital deck could lose WC stability if trying to follow a sloppy analog deck, whereas if the analog deck can follow the digital one fairly close, I doubt you would hear any artifacts, at least until the analog deck got so shaky as to cause wow from trying to follow poorly.

If the adats can't track a very wide window, striping SMPTE on one of the adat tracks might indeed be best with no BRC - but you'd still need a synchronizer for the TSR - I think I'd sell the adat and put the money into an 8 channel sound card for your computer, then sync to SMPTE from the TSR and live with 6-1/2 channels of analog... Steve
 
"Is the ADAT really considered a digital machine in this scenario since it uses a mechanical tape transport?"

oh HELL yeah! until just a very few years ago, 99.9999999999% of the pro/semi pro audio recorders were mechanical transport: PCM F1 ( if you know what that is I feel for you :) ), Sony DASh machines, mitsu ProDigi, 3M 50khz crazy popcorn makers ( any one have any info on these IM DYING to know ), adats, dat, TDIF, etc...

theres a big fat difference in the way an analog and digital machine will play back smpte...even if the smpte was recorded analog onto the adat's audio tracks. That ADAT ( barring the friggin droputs etc that happen everytime you point at them) will play the first bit of smpte burst at the EXACT same time every time.
of course it will always be on the same spot on tape on an analog machine, BUT at best it will have 1/30th of a second accuracy, and have NO reason to keep the spacing even...NONE at all....

a diital machine is reading numbers off media, dumping them into a buffer, and then spitting them out of that buffer EVERY time the clock hits...within 1/48,000 of a second
 
A TSR8 (or a 238, for that matter), when chasing SMPTE can stay within about 2/100ths of a frame (about 1/1500 of a second). That's not close enough to avoid some "chorusing" effect, but so long as you don't have two recordings of the same performance across decks, it will chase fine.

It sounds like the ADAT is the more stable transport, though, so I'd stick with the "make the reel-to-reel chase the ADAT" approach.
 
thats pretty impressive for that cheap of gear!

I guess the point is, an analog machine knows its job and could care less about a few microseconds of (dare I use the word?) jitter :)
you pont it to the work and say go...a digital machine is gonna freak out in its prissiness, chasing a wobbling time clock...
 
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