switching from PA9 to Sonar 7

R

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What new features should I know about?

I already opened it up, and although it feels more complicated, it still has a feel as if i were at home.

I mostly wanted new sounds. Thus far, I've only had the basic General MIDI, Roland XG, and Yamaha XS sounds. I just bought Sonar 7 from a buddy, and have discovered VST capability, which should help out in the future, and the ability to use softsynths.

How do I use a softsynth? I see the effects and the presets, but when I compose a little MIDI in the softsynth track, it doesn't play.

I also heard about "freezing" which is a straight MIDI to audio conversion. I'm seeing now that it wasn't what I thought it was.

Any hints. Once I figure out how to maximize the sound factor, I've got the rest in the bag...I think.

btw, it's nice to be back. Due to a career switch, I had to leave the boards for a few years.
 
I switched from PA9 to Sonar 7 PE last summer and felt the same way. More stuff, but still felt right at home. You'll feel good about your move.

First off, did you get LE or PE? PE is what I have and has way more stuff than LE, so I don't know if some of the following applies.

The way to hear your soft synths is to go to Insert and pull the menu down, then select your synthesizer from there. After that, you'll see a track folder in your track view. This folder holds your midi track, and an audio track. Make sure the midi tracks output is set to the synthesizer/ instrument you selected. Also make sure the audio track's input in the folder is set to the same synth/ instrument. Then the audio output needs to be set to either the Master bus or your hardware output. It's better to use the Master bus (not just for this track, but all your audio tracks), and then set the Master to your hardware output. Your gonna find that your routing options with the seemingly unlimited buses is soooooooo much more flexible and only a little more complex.

Basically, you set any midi track output to any softsynth/ instrument you've pulled up, and any audio track input to the softsynth. But you won't hear anything until you set an audio track input. You also won't be able to freeze any tracks without the audio input track set as well.

This may be a stupid question, no offense intended, but you do know that you can only freeze softsynths/ instruments and not hardware synths, right? Also, I think I heard LE won't let you freeze softsynths, though I could be wrong. But unless you need the cpu, don't bother. You can still apply effects to the audio track in the folder and it should all be there when you run your mix down.

One thing to definitely explore are the bus options. It's different from PA9, where you set your output to your hardware output and the master bus automatically controls it all. Also check out the buses, and be aware that when you route a track to them, you can pan the route seperate from the track's pan position. And you can add more than the two buses that PA9 has.

I love Sonar 7 and am so glad I finally stepped up, and just upgraded to 8 PE a week ago. Even more stuff and it uses less cpu. Hope this was helpful.
 
I switched from PA9 to Sonar 7 PE last summer and felt the same way. More stuff, but still felt right at home. You'll feel good about your move.

First off, did you get LE or PE? PE is what I have and has way more stuff than LE, so I don't know if some of the following applies.

The way to hear your soft synths is to go to Insert and pull the menu down, then select your synthesizer from there. After that, you'll see a track folder in your track view. This folder holds your midi track, and an audio track. Make sure the midi tracks output is set to the synthesizer/ instrument you selected. Also make sure the audio track's input in the folder is set to the same synth/ instrument. Then the audio output needs to be set to either the Master bus or your hardware output. It's better to use the Master bus (not just for this track, but all your audio tracks), and then set the Master to your hardware output. Your gonna find that your routing options with the seemingly unlimited buses is soooooooo much more flexible and only a little more complex.

Basically, you set any midi track output to any softsynth/ instrument you've pulled up, and any audio track input to the softsynth. But you won't hear anything until you set an audio track input. You also won't be able to freeze any tracks without the audio input track set as well.

This may be a stupid question, no offense intended, but you do know that you can only freeze softsynths/ instruments and not hardware synths, right? Also, I think I heard LE won't let you freeze softsynths, though I could be wrong. But unless you need the cpu, don't bother. You can still apply effects to the audio track in the folder and it should all be there when you run your mix down.

One thing to definitely explore are the bus options. It's different from PA9, where you set your output to your hardware output and the master bus automatically controls it all. Also check out the buses, and be aware that when you route a track to them, you can pan the route seperate from the track's pan position. And you can add more than the two buses that PA9 has.

I love Sonar 7 and am so glad I finally stepped up, and just upgraded to 8 PE a week ago. Even more stuff and it uses less cpu. Hope this was helpful.
 
Sure you can. Just go through the sequence I said above, which takes less than 30 seconds and use your midi controller, output set to the same input channel as your midi track, arm the track and press record. The audio will play through the audio track you designate. You have to think of softsynths kinda like hardware synths. Hardware synths have to literally be plugged into the input of your mixer/ interface with a real cord. With softsynths, you have to think of it the same way, except instead of using a cord, you pull a menu down, to select the output/ input. Also I forgot to mention, toggle the midi input echo, see if that is a problem.
 
Ok, so I make a 4 bar drum loop on track one, and I want to play it on the dreamstation softsynth.

What are my inputs/outputs on track 1?

Do I need a track 2?
 
Assuming track 1 is a midi track, make sure track 2 is an audio track. If track 2 is an audio track here's your set up:

1. Dreamstation is in your synth rack.
2. Track 1 input set to the same midi channel as your outboard midi
controller, if applicable. Otherwise skip this step.
3. Track 1 output set to Dreamstation. Dreamstation will not show as
an option unless it is in your synth rack.
4. Track 2 input set to Dreamstation.
5. Track 2 output set to Master.
6. Master output set to your hardware component's output/ monitoring.

In the event that track 2 is not an audio track, then you have to create one. If that's the case then on steps 4 and 5, use your new audio track number instead of track 2.

Softsynths need a midi track and an audio track to work.

Quick question: Are you hearing anything at all? Record some audio tracks and make sure those are playing back. Sometimes it could be your master bus isn't set to your soundcard/ audio interface.
 
My busses are set correctly, as other audio tracks are playing perfectly fine.

The only thing I ever used buses for is to add an effect onto more than one track. Do they have any other purposes?
 
Ok, I just did a search on Dreamstation. If you have Dreamstation 1.0, it can't be used as a plugin for a host application. It's a standalone program, meaning it won't work with Sonar or any other DAW. Dreamstation DXi will work and is available online for free, and it's based on version 1.0.

I think you need to start from scratch, just to get this working for you. Guessing by the names of your buses, you've opened a PA9 project in Sonar 7. Now you also mentioned you have PE, so you've got some limited editions of softsynths that came with the program.

Start by creating a new project, name it "softsynth test", and select "normal" for your template. You'll notice that track 1 and 2 are audio tracks, and tracks 3 and 4 are midi tracks. Delete tracks 2 and 4. Now track 1 should be an audio track and track 2 should be midi. Open your synthrack view and add Rapture. Then follow the steps in my previous post substituting Rapture for Dreamstation. Once you get this concept down, you should be able to apply that to any existing project.

OR, you can go under insert-softsynth-rapture, and it will create a whole new track folder with an audio and midi track, then it's just setting the input/ outputs.

I'm not gonna get into buses, cause you seem pretty confused with this so far. The above is as basic as I can put it, after that, you just have to try it with the synths that came with sonar. I don't know if I have any more information on this without really knowing your setup, project, or any other variables. But within the program, this is how you do it. I do it this way all the time, so maybe it's your Dreamstation synth.
 
ok, i'll give that a shot tomorrow as time provides.

On a separate note with the busses, adding one effect to multiple tracks would be the only purpose, right?
 
Thanks for the screen shot, very helpful.

First, there's no program loaded in Rapture. Most softsynths differ from hardware synths in that when you start them up, hardware synths automaticly load a program. On track 2, in between the number "2" and the word "midi 1", double click the icon that looks like a midi plug. This will bring up your Rapture gui. Click on the box that say's "no program" and select your sound.

Second, you've solo'd somethin and I can't see which track it is. Tracks 1 and 2 will not play because these are NOT the solo'd tracks. At the top, green button "s" and at the bottom green box "solo". Toggle the green box "solo" at the bottom and this will unsolo all tracks.

Third, check your master bus ouput again, and make sure it's set to the correct hardware output. I know I've said this before, but whenever I start a new project, my master bus is set to my computer soundcard by default and I always have to change it to my firewire interface unless I loaded my own template.

You should be in business. If you still don't have it, take a screen shot of your console view with the window maximized and show me that.

As far as your question about buses, I just typed a HUGE paragraph on the subject, but the post didn't submit *#%&$@!! So I actually retyped all of the above and I'm out of time. Sorry, but I will get back to you on that.

Lemme know how it works.
 
I was working on Sonar last night and need to make a couple corrections to the previous post. After bringing up the Rapture gui, the box to click to get your sound is "empty program" near the top. Also, delete the track folder that was created when you inserted Rapture. Your softsynth is already routed to the input of the audio track in the folder by default AND you have it routed to track 1. It's going to be very LOUD when you get it working. On that note, you should work out of the track folder in the future. You'll find that as you add more softsynths in a project, it can be an organizational nightmare. Track folders keep these tracks together and takes up less space on your track view.

Now, the buses. You are correct in that buses are mainly used to apply an effect to multiple tracks, but it's the routing options that are flexibly endless. For instance, take your audio drum track(s), and route the output(s) to Subgroup1 bus instead of the Master bus. If this bus doesn't exist, just create a new stereo bus. Name it what you want. Next route Subgroup1 bus output to the Master bus with your Master bus output going to your hardware output. Then insert a send from your audio drum track(s) to FX1 bus. Again, if the bus doesn't exist, just create it. Keep in mind that the send pans work separately from the track pans, so adjust those accordingly. Route FX1 bus output to Subgroup1 bus. Solo the FX1 bus and insert a compressor in the effects bin. Crush the drums with a fast attack (15ms-60ms), a high ratio and play with release until the drums are pumping unrealisticly. Lower the fader on FX1 bus all the way down, unsolo, then bring the fader up slowly. Now you have a dry drum track and a compressed drum track on Subgroup1. Mix to taste. Eq accordingly. Finally, insert another compressor on Subgroup1 bus, and just use a little bit of gain reduction, just to level out the flutter pumping. Now you have a controlled but fattened defined drum track. Confused? Do a search on "2 stage parallel compression". It's a great way to thicken up any stems in your mix, but usually once you do one stem, you've got to do them all.

In PA9, the only way to do this technique was to keep bouncing tracks down. But if later you decide the snare is too soft, you've got to start back at the beginning of your bounce sequence and then rebounce everything all over again. Only two buses in PA9 and you can't change their outputs. Sonar let's you add as many buses as you're cpu can handle. Sonar let's you just go to the snare's track fader and turn it down a little without retracing all your steps. You can add sends on buses to other buses. Separate send pans so you can pan a reverb send to a different place in the mix from the source. These bus options are so valuable in the post production stage of any project and have saved me time and sanity. One of the reasons I upgraded was dealing with 2 stage on PA9. You'll really need explore this for yourself, and you'll come up with a lot of tricks.
 
and how in the hell do I get rid of the folder in the "My Documents" folder, because every time I delete it, it comes back on startup.
 
Ok, I don't know if you know what I mean by "track folder". Referencing from your screenshot, move your cursor to track 3. Right click anywhere on the information side of the track where there is no icon or words. Just a blank grey part. A menu will come up, and select "delete track folder". I'm not sure what you're talking about with "my documents" and such. Track folders are actually in your track view, usually created by inserting a softsynth. This is NOT referring to a Microsoft Windows folder, but a folder in the actual Sonar project, used and accessed by Sonar and viewed by Sonar. It's for keeping your audio and midi tracks designated to a particular softsynth organized and together.

As far as file conversions, there's no need. Sonar will read all of your PA9 files, including .bun. I am sure of this because when I upgraded, I also bought a new computer. I spent sessions transfering all of my work via PA9 .bun files to the new computer, and making sure every file opened, to the new system.
 
From your screenshot, do you notice how tracks 3 and 4 have that extra non numbered track above it? It has the minus symbol on the left (minimize)? This is your track folder for your Rapture synth you inserted into the synth rack. Delete it from the same view as the screenshot you provided. Not through Windows.
 
I'm not sure what that has to do with your softsynths working or routing buses.

Is it working now? Any of the stuff I told helpful?
 
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